I usually defend 'hipsters', sometimes to the point of arguing they don't exist. Typically, I have no complaints about young people making the most of limited means. But yesterday I found myself judging a dude just because he was walking around in Five Fingers and fuck, I own two pairs. I felt it yesterday. For the first time. I get it. Yet I think I'm supposed to get it. So this is going to be me flailing.
Long story short, the wife and i had to pick something up in Olympia. We were early, so we went to get coffee. So you google "coffee near me" (as you do) and hey - you're a 3 minute drive from a coffee roaster.
It should be said that Olympia, WA is effectively Hipster Ground Zero. Sleater-Kinney literally named themselves after one of the main drags down there. There's never been fucking anything to do economically - it's too muddy for logging approaches so they put the state capital there. Then the politicos needed beer so they built a brewery there. Then they needed some street cred so they built a university there. But Washington politics is boring and slow (see: "Seattle process") so it didn't make any money. And the brewery was Olympia which was bought by Foster's in the '90s and stopped making beer at all in 2003. And the college is Evergreen (motto is omnia extares - literally "let it all hang out"), which is graded pass-fail, which is the most expensive state school to go to, and which offers the fewest possibilities for meaningful employment upon graduation.
It should also be said that I have always fucking hated Olympia, I just forgot while I was in LA, primarily because it's full of the sort of people who go to Evergreen, graduate with a useless degree, then linger around Olympia doing fuckall for money while painting meaningfully-titled abstract oils involving lots of red and used panties under shellac that they hang up in each other's "galleries" so that you can see their five-figure price tags. There isn't a cleverer population of underemployed liberal arts majors in the US. It had a vibrant music scene (for a while) because there was no point in any of the decent bands schlepping their shit down from Seattle or up from Portland so it became this self-referential college radio shitpile that the rest of us mocked as they all got temporarily rich. Except the Pres of the USA. Holy fuck they played everywhere. But I digress.
So there we are, in Olympia, at a coffee roaster. Olympia, population under 50k, has metered parking everywhere (because fuck you). Fortunately, the ones in front of City Hall have fifteen minute free parking (because that way they can lure you into thinking you can accomplish anything in fifteen minutes and they can convert your free parking into a $30 ticket). And you can get a cup of coffee in fifteen minutes, right?
And hey, they're a roaster. They don't smell like a roaster, and they don't have beans out. But they have five different roasts! But which one would you like? Here's the conversation -
"What can I prepare for you?"
"What would you recommend? I don't like sour coffee."
"Well, some people have described the fruit notes and terroir of our more exotic roasts as 'sour.' You might perhaps do better with one of our darker roasts."
"Can I try a little?"
"We brew to order and each cup is made using individualized servingwear. I'm sorry."
"Uhm, okay, I'll have that dark one."
That's when I see their thing.
Worth noting - this rant started when my wife argued I'd never be able to find this fuckin' gadget because you can't google "five pour-over with wiggly nozzles." In fact, you can. You can image-search it. This will lead you down the rabbit-hole of discovering that if you call "adding water to grounds" the "Japanese tea ceremony of coffee" you can charge fuckin' $12k for a gadget that will do it five times at once. Worth noting - you need a $3k water heater to make it work, pushing the cost of the whole shebang within a grand of what I paid for a fuckin' Honda Fit not many years ago, and four large past what a Clover cost back when you could buy one, a price that people lost their shit over backintheday.
But all that is semi-immaterial because once I looked over the magic five pourover with wiggly nozzles machine, I saw the giant sign that said "free cuppings every Friday 10am" over the room full of people sampling coffee.
It was 10:45.
So I asked the studious woman who was busily anointing a chemex with water from an industrial-grade bottle washer,
"Hey, aren't they doing tasting over there?"
She gave me a look.
"The cupping started at ten," she said.
"And?" I asked.
"And you wouldn't understand what was going on this late into the service," she replied.
Rather than say "I'm pretty sure I know how to taste coffee" I sat down and watched her skillfully press a green button to make my coffee. That's about when the dude with the LumberBeard and the Moleskine and the Five Fingers and the skinny jeans walked by and I remembered how much I hated Olympia. Then I paid ten bucks for a drip coffee, a tea and a palmier (IN FUCKING OLYMPIA) and marveled at how much I hated Olympia.
Then I had a sip of the coffee. It tasted like Folger's Brand Battery Acid.
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And here's the thing. I've had Clover coffee. It's good. I've had roasted-while-you-watch Kona on the plantation. It's good. I've had rootin' tootin' high-falootin' Beverly Hills roast. It's good. But the only places I've ever had truly bad coffee are:
c) and the aforementioned battery acid.
I've never had bad coffee at a roaster's before. It's kind of inconceivable to me. For one thing, sour coffee is, to my understanding, a sign of a bad roast. For another, fresh beans make all the difference and they have a giant fuckin' window onto the roasters so WTF.
And they have predictably worshipful reviews. Clearly, I am in the wrong. Clearly, I'm an old fuddy-duddy. Clearly, I have no palate. Obviously, I missed my cupping instructions.
But I never go to Olympia by choice anyway, so who cares? And I never buy $5 pourovers anyway, so who cares? And nobody who listens to me would have been one of their customers anyway, so who cares? Did I not get the coffee I paid for? Am I not entertained? I mean, watch the precision pissing performance from this piece of shit:
Star patterns, bitch. Taste the rainbow.
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Thing is, long has it been argued that there is no correlation between the price of a bottle of wine and its objective quality. Long has it been observed that the more effort one puts into something, the more it is valued. Audiophiles love their thousand-dollar cables because they cost a thousand dollars. Wine snobs will absolutely prefer a $500 bottle of wine to a $50 bottle of wine... assuming they see the price first. But you can't get the table red for less than $10 a glass most places and even if you're going to be an audiophile on the cheap, you're still spending hundreds of dollars on headphones.
Coffee? Coffee can be had for $7 a pound. Water is effectively free. Even if you're paying three times as much as you should for a cup of coffee, you're still under $9. And if your excesses repel the proletariat, that simply proves your own refinement. Don Thompson pointed out that contemporary art collectors pay more for repulsive works because it makes their purchases less comprehensible to the general public, and therefore proves their tastes more refined. And a $5 pour-over is a lot more attainable when your economy consists of over-educated liberal arts majors selling each other locally-sourced marijuana accessories.
So really, the roaster is killin' it. They're making money (hopefully enough to recoup their nozzle-pisser), they're thrilling the natives and they're pissing off outsiders like me.
I just... I dunno. I guess I thought coffee was kinda universal. It makes me wonder just how bad it is right now that the kidz are drinking deliberately-bad coffee so they can feel exclusive about something. And anybody who can make me wish I'd gone to starbuck's is... well, a dick. Especially when I'm paying for the privilege.
Hey, at least we didn't get a ticket.
I've been trying to type this out for the past fifteen minutes now, but I keep on deleting and starting over again so I'm just gonna crack open a beer, pop on some music, and just start typing to get it all out. This whole rant is genuinely horrible, not that you're a horrible person for ranting it kleinbl00, but the behavior described is horrible. It's the type of behavior that should not only be looked down upon, but ridiculed and derided. Hipsters view themselves as the high society of the working class man. In general, they have relatively decent taste. They know good food when the eat it, good music when they hear it, good art when they see it. They dress sharp, aren't afraid to experiment, and are willing to embrace both the old and the new. If it has value, they are drawn to it. I think a lot of their behavior can be attributed to their limited income. If they only have so much time and money on their hands, they want to make sure that what they spend their time and money on is good and worthwhile. Otherwise, they feel like they have burned themselves. I should know. I think the exact same way. It's why people call me a beer snob, a comic snob, etc. Here's the difference between me and hipsters though. I love to share. All of the fucking time. You ask me about comics, I'll drop 20 titles in your lap that I think you should try. You ask me about my car, I'll pop you in the passenger seat and take you for a spin. You ask me about beer, we're hitting up the local liquor store and buying individual bottles for our own sampling spree. There are so many wonderful things in this world that I just can't help but enjoy sharing them with others. After all, it's here for all of us, to explore, to embrace. Hipsters, especially after reading this rant, don't really strike me as feeling the same way. Hipsters, like people from high society, seem to embrace the concept of creating barriers. That fancy ass coffee machine, those stupid audio cables, those overpriced notebooks, everything you listed, create a financial barrier. I feel like Hipsters embrace these things, because it's something they can afford to feel mighty about when they can't afford McLarens and $2.5 million mansions. $15,000 for a coffee maker? Fuck that. I could probably make coffee just as good with my Black and Decker. Admit it. Hipsters are materialistic and they want to build barriers based around cost to make them feel better. It's bullshit. It's not just money though. It's knowledge. If you don't illustrate that you're savy enough, they won't let you in the know about what they think are the best places to eat, the best music to listen to, the best art to go and look at. They will not hesitate though, to let you know that they think they know more than you and they don't think you're good enough to share that knowledge with. Just like money and access to it, they use their knowledge and access to it to create barriers. What's worse of all though, is that they're often victims of their own hubris. They don't stop to think that a $15,000 coffee maker is a stupid idea. They don't stop to think that Five Fingers make them look like dumb asses. They don't stop to think that maybe fixies were all but dead in consumer bicycles because their drawbacks outweigh their benefits. Buying shitty art is stupid. My car ads, my fucking vintage car ads, cost me about $5 a pop, less if I'm feeling like haggling, and they're worlds better than a crucifix dangling in a jar of piss. They let their ego get so big, it consumes them, and they don't even see it. It's shameful. Shameful and sad. And look, that barrier that's created is so strong, it has me talking “me vs. them.” A language I save for racists and bigots, extremists and violent people. That's how easy that barrier is built. Send a hipster my way for the night though, we'll hang out on my back porch, talking cars, drinking beer, listening to music, and petting my dog. I'm probably not invited in the “Hipster world” but any hipster is more than welcome to be a part of my world.
So I went through the exact same self-righteous scorn and dudgeon, and I didn't like the way it felt. Because I've never felt that scorn before, so I decided to figure out why I felt it. I ended up rejecting it out of hand. Let's see if you follow the same dots. The behavior described isn't horrible, it's victimless. I mean, the most victimized person in the discussion is me, and the limits of my victimization stretch all the way to "a bad, overpriced cup of coffee." Considering the mental exercise I got out of it, it was a bargain. The guys on the fixies? They aren't hurting you in the slightest. If that's what they want to spend their time and money on? Let 'em. More than that, I've had fixie conversations with fixie riders while riding something that wasn't a fixie and half the time, the conversation goes great until they say something that breaks the spell and I realize they're idiots and then they stop talking to me. I have every expectation that were I to go back to that coffee shop and go "ZOMG I saw this thing at Maker Faire in 2013 and it's so cool to see it in person tell me about its awesomeness" they'd wax poetic for 20 minutes in between serving up artfully leafed macchiatos to people who are genuinely thankful to drink battery acid. As it was, I could barely contain my eye roll and still, they politely tried to sell me pastry. Giant palmiers? We can talk about giant palmiers. It's a safe middle ground. I think nothing is lost because while you and I can talk coffee and cars, neither you nor I can appreciatively, respectfully discuss a $12k pourover machine with someone who genuinely thinks it's adding to the world. OF COURSE they're going to be cloistered and unapproachable; we're infidels that aren't ready for the One True Church. I actually ended up there with the contemporary art scene. You know what? It's fuckin' spectacular that rich people buy and sell busts made out of frozen blood. They could be buying and selling politicians or Thai children but instead they've deliberately chosen to swap dots on paper for gajillions of dollars. If that's what they want to do with their money, fine. For every Jeff Koons in a private collection there's one less Jeff Koons I'm likely to see in a museum. The Serrano is a special case; nobody really gives a fuck about it other than the fact that $5k of public money went to it, which went all the way to congress, which is pretty crazy stupid but I mean shit, I'd rather see $5k spent on a crucifix dipped in urine than $5B spent on the F-35 but let's get real, that plane is gonna cost us $1.5T so really, $5k is like a paint chip. I mean, so long as we're talking affronts to public good and all. Really, if you want to look knowledgeable while slagging on contemporary art, focus on Tracy Emin. But remember - good artists borrow, great artists steal. (ctrl-F "eno" on that wikipedia page; you won't be disappointed)
I do not like anything I read about either of those two people. Or any of these guys. The Piss Christ I brought up cause it's the only example I could remember, but it also fits right along with these guys. I just want to say, in all fairness, I don't want to start the whole "What is Art?" debate. I hate that debate. It's been done over and over and the more involved people get in it, the less happy everyone seems to walk away from it. I remember one time at a barbecue talking to a guy about Vintage Monaco Posters and how even though I wouldn't actively search for a real one, I wouldn't mind having a reprint of one hanging on my walls. He said, in summary, that they're not real art and I should feel guilty for thinking that they were. I said, in summary, that he's a pompous fuckhead and he should feel guilty for saying that I should feel guilty for enjoying what I enjoy. On the flip side, if he told me about these artists with the toilets and the beds and he was genuinely enthusiastic about what they were doing and wanted to share why, I'd be all ears. In a nutshell, that's generally how it seems to go with me discussing art with people. It's not fun. I've had similar conversations about antiques, music, books, what have you. You don't have to like what I like, but you shouldn't have to make me feel guilty for liking what I like or feel compelled to have a drawn out, pseudo-intellectual conversation to defend my tastes. That's assholish. I think that's the thing though. You say with hipsters and their behavior, there's no "victim." I mean, yeah, in a way you're right. The barista didn't shoot you in the back at the coffee place. No one at a barbecue that I've ever been at could be held directly responsible for slave labor in South America. On much smaller scale though, the attitudes they have make people who they think aren't on the "in" feel marginalized. They can make people feel that their life experiences, their tastes and preferences, are diminished in value. Those are negative experiences. That's victimization in a way. You? Me? We take the high road. We think those people might be having an off day at best or write them off as jerks at the worse. Some people though? They're pretty thin skinned. Having to go through conversations like that sucks. The other problem is, these attitudes can lead to real and true discrimination. Take my friend's father for example. Awesome guy, in his mid 60s, loves classic movies with the likes of Cary Grant, Spencer Tracy, Paul Newman, Jimmy Stewart, etc. He knows his country music like the back of his hand, thinks Texas Swing is one of the coolest things ever just by how it happened to come about. He's an awesome, awesome guy and a great conversationalist. He's also old, goofy looking, and speaks with a bit of a stutter. There was a burger place near where he worked that he heard good things about. Great food, run by cool young college people, a place that's really worthwhile to eat. He got absolutely shit service. Now, he's not the kind of guy to complain ever, but he complained about that to his son and I. So we decided to check the place out ourselves. The two of us? Definitely don't dress the part of young or cool either, and we too got shit service. People that dressed the part of the "stereotypical" hipster got checked on by their waitress twice as often as us (yes, we kept track), had the waitress talk to those customers what at least seemed longer, and the overall attitude towards those customers seemed more friendly, warm, and receptive compared to what we got. Anecdotal, I know. While I'm sure that such an experience doesn't happen often, the fact that it happens at all is shitty. I dunno. I read the comment of yours from a ways back that you referred to, arguing that hipsters don't exist. I'd argue against it, saying that just because they don't want to call themselves that, doesn't mean that they can't be categorized under that term. I'd agree with the frailty though. Through and through. It strikes me that people with low confidence place too much value on what they know and the things they surround themselves with, as well as their own perception of self. It doesn't excuse the behavior though. As an aside. Fuck. I'm really sorry. I didn't mean to rant or debate you. It just kind of came out.Really, if you want to look knowledgeable while slagging on contemporary art, focus on Tracy Emin. But remember - good artists borrow, great artists steal.
I'm happy for the discussion. Again, I found myself mentally and verbally lashing out at a culture that I've defended before. You're right - discrimination is bullshit, no matter what form it takes. Prejudice is usually its source. Elitist attitudes foster prejudice which leads to discrimination. But as a privileged white guy the only place I've ever experienced prejudice was amongst minorities. And you know what? I didn't need to be there, and they resented my presence. The important thing is why. I think trying to eat at a Mexican restaurant in Las Vegas, NM is the same as trying to be old at a hipster barbecue joint. They live life without power, in someone else's world, and fuck you this is our time. Like I said, yeah it's douchey that there are places you aren't welcome because you believe in gear shifts on bicycles. And like you said, the better angels of our natures try to take the high road. Emphasis on "try." It occurred to me that much gnashing of teeth and rending of shirts could have been spared had the barista said "you aren't going to like anything here." But that would have totally pissed me off 'cuz who was she to judge me? And really - they were nice, in their own way. If you take as a basic assumption that they make the best coffee on earth and that their customers are lucky to bask in the glory of their artisanal brewing skillz, they were positively magnanimous. I begin to wonder how similar it is to the punk ethos. The music is shit because music is bourgeois but fuck you it's our music. I mean, CBGB's was a hole. Meanwhile the guys that wax nostalgic about Studio 54 are mostly rich assholes.
I wonder how much of the hipster stereotype is due to people saying things like that in a not-necessarily-judgmental way. There are an awful lot of situations that call for saying "you aren't going to like anything here", "you don't care", ... just because they're almost certainly true and they'll save everyone some frustration, but they'll never be taken that way. And maybe it's good that you stop trying to use them with a little experience; sometimes the waffle house waitress really will enjoy hearing about Ramsey theory, sometimes Ned Flanders next door really does want to talk about Christian Death, and sometimes the kiddies really want to be reassured that it's not always just a phase. Still, I don't think it's a coincidence that the people being tarred with the "you probably haven't heard of it" brush grew up with the Internet, where everyone can develop their niche interests as deeply as they want and everyone has been burned by trying to share their enthusiasm only to be met with glazed eyes.It occurred to me that much gnashing of teeth and rending of shirts could have been spared had the barista said "you aren't going to like anything here." But that would have totally pissed me off 'cuz who was she to judge me?
I've eaten at some pretty interesting places before and 9 times out of 10 the waitress can tell I'm out of my element and rolls with it. If the barista were any good at her job, not only would she recognize that you're not her typical customer, but she'd inquire about your coffee preferences and experiences. After two or three quick questions, she'd discover that this is a new experience for you, explain that what they do is a bit different and might not be your thing. Then she could go on and explain what makes their coffee different and why, what they look for in making their coffee and why, so you can try something new and come to a guided, yet natural appreciation for their product. If that's too time consuming, that's what pamphlets are for. I personally do this all the time when talking to people about things that I love and I often tailor my recommendations to what I know about them as a person. Take comics for example. Recently rinx asked me about getting into comics herself. Knowing that she is well read and completely new to comics, I recommended to her titles and authors that are both in my opinion, high in quality while being accessible. Absent from that list though, with one exception, are super hero comics. I really doubt they'd be her thing, or at the very least, her views of the stereotypes of super hero comics might be part of the reason she hasn't explored the medium yet. Conversely, if my friend PlaceboEffect came to me and said he was tired of what he's been reading and is ready for something new, I'd throw different titles his way, but would avoid super experimental titles or slice of life graphic novels, knowing they wouldn't be his thing. When you own or work in a business that revolves around customer service, and especially customer service that involves a product such as food or music, every single time a person comes into your place of business, they are coming to you for suggestions. It is literally your job to assess their tastes and desires and make recommendations based upon their feedback. Making snap judgments about a person and then dismissing them based upon those judgments means you're failing to do your job. This reminds me so much of the mid '00s and nerd culture. I'm sure there were a lot of elements involved, the biggest one being the internet, but all of the sudden elements of nerd culture was becoming mainstream very quickly, like some kind of pop cultural appropriation. All of the sudden there were cute girls buying Invader Zim clothing and accessories, frat boys started showing up to Halo and Magic the Gathering Tournaments, my friends had parents who didn't grow up watching Star Trek or Star Wars falling in love with the TV series Firefly. It's like someone opened the flood gates and all of the sudden nerd culture spilled out and normal people spilled into our realm in the blink of an eye. I remember it made a lot of people very upset. I remember debates where people would slander and accuse pretty girls at comic conventions as posers, doing it for the attention. I remember people saying shitty things about the frat boys at Halo tournaments, saying that they're playing the game for the fun and not because they enjoyed the story or would want to check out any of the supplemental universe material such as the novels (plus, they were probably salty as fuck because a lot of those frat boys were just plain better). While I didn't feel this way myself personally, I understood where this was coming from. We were the ugly, the awkward, the social recluses. Comics, video games, movies, were our escape. They were our emotional shelter. Suddenly, the very people who we felt marginalized us were invading our world. I can see how that would be scary. The thing is, nerds everywhere kind of owe all of those people an apology. Do you think the Avengers would have ever been a possibility if things had stayed as they were in the '90s? Fuck no. Like I said before, Hipsters arguably have good taste. I think that if they opened up a bit more, I think they'd discover that more regular people can appreciate what they appreciate to nearly the same degree. I also think that by opening up and sharing what they have to offer, they'd make a positive contribution to American culture.It occurred to me that much gnashing of teeth and rending of shirts could have been spared had the barista said "you aren't going to like anything here."
I begin to wonder how similar it is to the punk ethos. The music is shit because music is bourgeois but fuck you it's our music.
And thus we come full circle: You're right. Selling me something and making me unwelcome is shitty customer service. But if I were to whip out a map of Washington and ask "where am I likely to find the coffee shops with the shittiest service?" I'd have picked Olympia with little hesitation. There's an undercurrent of seething resentment that drives so much of the city's culture. I think "coffee nerds" plus "stellar service" plus "acceptable coffee" would have had me amused by their pissing whirligig. "coffee nerds" plus "shitty service" plus "terrible coffee" has me attempting to unpeel my onion of anger. Still. How do you fuck up a pourover? Gotta be the beans.However, a "hipster," as viewed from the inside, is someone who thinks things are cool but lacks the confidence to believe they are cool.
Maybe that's what I've liked Olympia when visiting I am now the embodiment of seething resentment so it checks out. And yeah you get bonus points. Capitol Hill is kind of terrible, with a few cool exceptions. Columbia City is becoming one of the next cool spots. There's an undercurrent of seething resentment that drives so much of the city's culture.
ding ding ding and when you consider how many of these hipsters of punk people or whatever the fuck you want to call them are overqualified for whatever (sometimes shitty) job they might be working, while living with 3-4 people after college with no end to this kind of shit in sight, what else can you expect. The economy is fucked in metropolitan areas and this is an outlet for people who don't have much else. I can go to some persons house who loves music and is a-ok with people drinking crap beer and thrashing around in their basement, or drinking crap beer and sitting around to some folk music. And yeah, you (a general you, not "rd95" you), probably won't feel comfortable in that situation and people aren't likely to go out of their way to make you feel comfortable because who are all these people in their thrift store clothing, tattoos, and piercings and why are they talking about things that often have no tangible impact on them oh right they're the people society likes to call unproductive or marginalize in whatever way possible. Meanwhile, let's take a look at Capitol Hill in Seattle. Historically an LGBT neighborhood, a lot of creative people, marginalized people. Modern day: housing prices are absurd, tech folks have moved in and the bros of your nerd days have become the bros of the present day, homogenizing the area and opening the floodgates to push others out. I Hate the Weekend kind of captures what I'm trying to talk about. Am I angry? Kind of, yeah, especially when last night I had a couple people ask me where the neighborhood right next to Capitol Hill is when it was pretty clear they just go find some bar, get plastered, and call it a night. Who are these hipsters supposed to open up to? How are they supposed to be expected to trust people to entertain the things they like without co-opting them? Guess I'm just kind of angry at the air right now and I don't expect many people to agree with the above but oh well, that's life and that's Hubski.They were our emotional shelter. Suddenly, the very people who we felt marginalized us were invading our world.
Just one thing I want to set straight - Cap Hill was historically a business district (mostly car stuff). Then it was a ghetto, with poverty, crime, rampant drug use. Then it became a gay / artist / hipster area, then it became the brogrammer paradise it is today. The hipsters complaining about getting kicked out are are conveniently forgetting they kicked out the broke addicts to move in. Hipsters aren't victims, they are another step in the gentrification chain.
We communicated with one another last night and he said it has more to do with him and stuff going on in his life than Hubski or anyone here. He knows that he is always welcome back. He may come back after a hiatus. I hope so.
As was Fremont, and Ballard, and Greenwood, and Georgetown, and ... Cap Hill was historically a business district (mostly car stuff). Then it was a ghetto, with poverty, crime, rampant drug use. Then it became a gay / artist / hipster area, then it became
Fair, I muddied too much of that together. And now we're going to kick everyone out of the Central District whooooooooo.
Maybe I'm misreading the situation, but that sounds more like class struggle and gentrification to me. It doesn't sound like they're upset because a bunch of squares started riding fixies and recently discovered the melodic beauty that is the mandolin. It sounds like they're upset because being poor is painful, left, right, and center and to be reminded of that position, of poverty and marginalization, is frustrating. I dunno. Class and culture go hand in hand. It's the difference between a fiddle and a violin, between Dale Earnhardt Jr. and Jeff Gordon. At the same time though, as close as the two concepts are, they can also be separated.
Yeah I've been having trouble maintaining a single line of thought lately, maybe a more direct reply would have been saying "take a look at Mumford & Sons and the rise and obliteration of folk music and/or look through peoples reactions whenever anybody signs to a major label." Actually about a month ago now I brought somebody to a DIY show who had never been to one before, and generally hasn't exhibited much interest in those kind of shows. Throughout the night this person asked "where are people getting the beer from" "is everyone smoking because they think it's cool?" "oh so I don't have to donate?" and things along those lines. That's why people don't open these things up to the general public.
Resentment over capitalism taking your culture and selling it back to you has been a thing since the 70s at least, but I think it's novel that everyone else gets pissy about "hipsters" appropriating their thing. I see a lot of hate for industrial, noise and metal bands that get reviewed in Pitchfork and don't have much connection to the communities they're borrowing from (getting reviewed in Pitchfork but having that connection gets a pass), and the communities they're borrowing from are mostly outsiders too.
Mumford and Sons is to music what going to an Indian restaurant and asking for a chicken tandori with a "1" on the hotness scale is to food. People enjoy it because it's something new, something a bit off the beaten path, but still accessible. Someone enjoying Mumford and Sons does not in any way take away from your ability to enjoy music by The Pogues or Tallest Man on Earth. If anything, it gives you the opportunity to share further with people. "Oh, you just discovered Mumford and Sons and like them? Maybe you should check out some of these guys. They might be right up your alley." Everything out there has something that is more appealing to "mainstream" people. Cars have Honda Civics. Folk music has Mumford and Sons. Coffee has Starbucks. On and on. The purists and the eclectics though? The people who have a true passion for their hobby? They still know how to find what they want.
rubs eyes This is where I disagree. This is what I attempted to outline. "I like folk music" "I like all kinds of music except country" "insert whatever else here" that effectively communicates "I like this but I have no nuance in what I like about it and haven't put forth the effort to delve beyond what's being given to me". I can recommend music to people and I have many, many times in the past, but the people in the above, the general, average person, does not, in my experiences take it upon themselves to take a deeper dive into these kinds even after providing some recommendations.Hipsters arguably have good taste. I think that if they opened up a bit more, I think they'd discover that more regular people can appreciate what they appreciate to nearly the same degree.
So? That means they just don't care as much about music as you do. If you feel compelled to recommend something, because you think they'll enjoy it, do so, then let go. If they explore it, great. If not, once again their dispassion on the subject doesn't diminish your passion unless you let it. Besides, your suggestion might stick with them, compounding on top of suggestions from others. Know how long it took me to watch Pulp Fiction from when I first heard it until I actually sat down and watched it? About a decade. Know how many times it was suggested to me in that time span? Probably 50. Eventually though, I sat down and watched it. Sometimes, even if you don't think you're reaching someone, you probably are.I can recommend music to people and I have many, many times in the past, but the people in the above, the general, average person, does not, in my experiences take it upon themselves to take a deeper dive into these kinds even after providing some recommendations.
We clearly have very, very different levels of cynicism towards others.
I'm very cynical. Towards massive corporations, towards corrupt governments, towards people of power in general who abuse their positions. The average person though? Whether they are better or worse off than us in terms of privilege, wealth, influence, or what have you, they're still human, trying to get by like you and me. They're not being wilfully malicious or even wilfully neglectful. They're just being human. The best we can do is encourage them when they're doing right and speak up when we feel they are doing wrong. Sometimes though, you'll catch yourself calling someone an "asshole" under your breath. It happens. I do it all the time, whether I mean to or not.
Do I get points for hating Capitol Hill back to the mid '90s? Even when I was in college it was the U district at twice the price. Parking has always sucked, housing has always been run down, and the denizens have always lorded their digs over you. I mean, I had 1500 square feet with a view of Lake Washington sort of in the no man's land between Wedgewood, Sand Point and Lake City and I had it for $900/mo. Meanwhile, I dated a girl who lorded her $800 portion of her shared-three-ways 1000sf 3BR on Cap Hill. The cool spots have shifted from Downtown Pioneer Square to Georgetown to Ballard and Cap Hill has always been where idiots pay too much to convince other people they're cool.
Probably my most ridiculous vice is vintage hifi. I can tick all the boxes. Vintage, high end manufacturer, and I have all the right tubes. But you nailed why I see myself differently than I see those hipsters in Olympia. I don't think a $1200, fifty year old preamp adds anything to the world. I could go into any low end audio shop and get something that sounds really good for less. I could get an entire setup that sounds really good for less. It's fun for me, but that's it. If anyone is interested, I'm using a McIntosh MX110 tuner/preamp into a pair of McIntosh MC30s. When I say the "right" tubes I mean RCA black plate 6L6GCs and smooth plate Telefunken 12AX7s. I actually think I have a bit of a mix, and there are probably some generic GE tubes in there, too. I don't care quite enough to bother sorting out what I have and what is where. My turntable and speakers aren't vintage and really nothing special. Good but not much more than that.a $12k pourover machine with someone who genuinely thinks it's adding to the world.
It's not that bad of a vice though. If it's old, good, and rare, it has value. By taking owning and taking care of such equipment, you're contributing to the preservation of not only your hobby but a small slice of history.Probably my most ridiculous vice is vintage hifi. I can tick all the boxes. Vintage, high end manufacturer, and I have all the right tubes.
That's a valid point, and in the fifteen years I've been doing this prices have more than doubled. Like classic cars, they aren't making any more of these.
I was flipping through a Duchamp biography during an idle moment a few weeks ago and ran across this bit which I read aloud to my wife about "Fountain."At Marcel's request, he [Stieglitz] agreed to photograph the Fountain... He was greatly amused, but also felt that it was important to fight bigotry in America. He took great pains with the lighting, and did it with such skill that a shadow fell across the urinal suggesting a veil."
There's a shop I go to that only does pour overs besides espresso drinks. No other option for drip. They are supremely busy pretty much all the time. They have a rack that can and does handle multiple pour overs going at the same time. All I can say is I don't think the bottleneck in their busy operation is the time it takes a barista to wave her arms above a cup at peak times when they have a few going at once. Cause that's really what you'd be paying for here. 12k for a machine that will give you back that labor spent waving that $8-15/hr hand above a cup at certain peak times for a few moments. Still have to operate the machine. Still have to grind, prep the cups and filters, etc. Plus there is maintenance, etc. If someone had a shop where folks are lined up waiting for pour overs all day long while they are open I guess I could see it, but I've never seen a shop like that, not even the third wave ones. People like their cappuccinos and I usually only see a couple pour overs going at once even when there is a line almost out the door. Anyway, this might make you feel better about your coffee experience by way of comparison: https://www.patinagroup.com/rays-and-stark-bar/menu#Water+Menu Or it may just add to your rage.
Ha! Dude, I spent 9 years in LA. The real shops don't need to blow a paragraph on why you should drink Voss over Aqua Panna. They just make a choice for you. This place - which I hadn't heard of - boasts its proximity to this: Which basically means it's a block or two from the SAG building where Secrest studios is which I've done a couple seasons of work at and I kinda know that neighborhood, you know? And one thing I can tell you about those lights is that they're crawling with selfie-snapping tourists 24-7 and five will get you ten, tourists need the soft sell on why they should pay $10 for a bottle of Voss ($6-8 being the going rate on Abbot Kinney). I mean, shit - they've got two different menu items involving wagyu beef, which any foodie worth their salt knows doesn't exist. It's a tourist trap, not a hipster joint, which is its own terrible punishment but kind of off-topic for the discussion at hand.
If it makes you feel any better, I spend a fair bit of time in Shoreditch (which is essentially London's Brooklyn replica) and I have no idea what good coffee tastes like. I did go to a coffee show once but I drank so much I started getting hyper and paranoid because I didn't really have enough to eat. I don't really think you hate hipsters, this looks suspiciously like a good old you call that a cup of coffee???? ragepost.
Dude, I know, right? Know how many lagers and pilsners Fred Meyer has that aren't Coors, miller or the like? Sam Adams, Weinhard's, Corona, Heineken, Michelob. Know how many light beers they have? Sam Adams, Coors, Natty, Michelob Ultra, Heineken Light. Know how many batshit IPAs they have? ALL OF THEM.
Ah, palmier's. They're like, the fakest of cookies to make. Take puff pastry, which no one makes and everyone buys, maybe rub some shit on the puff pastry if you want, cut it, and roll it, and bake it. They're probably pretty good though I guess. They show up in like, every cookie cookbook. (Don't ask me why, but I've read a lot.) Also, like, it's weird. I've gotten called a hipster and I never cared enough to argue about it (call me what you see me, it's your eyes, after all) but I can't relate to the scene you describe at all. "Cupping"? WTF is "cupping"? I think it's just cuz I wear skinny jeans and converse or vans and have big glasses and like certain select "more unknown" - (ha! a laughable assertion, tbh) bands. Idk. Don't care. Working at a bank has given me too much insight into the financial world, I guess, I've adopted too many secret "republican" tendencies. (Fiscal conservatives are a-okay by me.)
I'm trying to get in to keeping up with stuff like that and when I lived on my own paying rent that's exactly what I did. Probably because the other options would have destroyed me. Moving out again in a year and I'll likely figure something out. For now it's trying to organize my day though as I'm taking online courses and it's very difficult to stay on top of things. Actually just finished planning out tomorrow including a block of time devoted to "free time". I'm realizing that if I want to function in society I need a schedule and next step is the budget stuff.
Palmiers are totally fake but let's be honest: you're not going to buy a roll of puff pastry to blow on palmiers and anything made up mostly of butter and sugar is likely to be pretty good if it's fresh. If you want to know if your Mexican restaurant is any good, order the albondigas. Hard to fake decent albondigas. If you want to avoid food poisoning, order a quesadilla. Hard to fuck up a quesadilla. I love quesadillas and I'm fond of palmiers. Croissants? Those bitches are execution-dependent. "Cupping" is the use of glass jars and flame in order to bring humors and bodily toxins to the surface of the skin.
So how long did you spend just lying in the floor staring at the ceiling thinking this through ? I feel as though this works for many things. Unless expensive jeans are actually made with quality stitches that last longer than the cheap pairs there is no reason they should cost 100 but many do. Alcohol, coffee, furniture, clothing, and the list goes on.
Damn that's a successful shopping day. I don't mind spending the money if I'll get a good solid pair but I've had a few bad purchases. One that stands out was actually a friend who bought a nice pricey pair of jeans that, no matter how many times they were washed, dyed her legs blue everytime she wore them.
Not that the list of male advantages is short or anything, but I hit the outlet mall with a "sky's the limit, I need five new pairs of jeans" mentality and walked out having spent less than $60. I had a pair of Eddie Bauers that fit me just fine, looked, well, good enough (I mean, not really a point of perfection for me) and survived laying over at speed on a motorcycle twice. Think they were $23. used to be I'd spend double that on a pair of 501s from Miller's Outpost or whatever. Yay China?
Oh wow that's my dream ! I normally go in a store with jeans covering the walls just to find 1 in my size (never cheap). I'm size 0... The media said I would have it so easy ! I was lied to dammit. I never thought of Eddie Bauer for jeans however I should look because I've found nice outerwear there. Lucky has been good to me and typically when they start to wear out I can stretch their life by using them as work pants. Finding size 0 pants for landscaping just doesn't happen.
Not so much lying on the floor, but the drive back, then half an hour this morning when we looked up the machine, then about an hour's worth as we went walking with the kid. I've seen expensive jeans. The argument there is less pure because the cut can be refined to fit a person better or worse; my wife fit in Lucky just fine prior to pregnancy but now she's got to spend more to get jeans that fit her hips and waist. Furniture? Definitely. Those fuckin' Wassily chairs are wretched to sit in but I've got a buddy that's debated blowing $2k on one. But coffee is one ingredient, and that ingredient is a commodity. I think it's the purest form of the argument you can make, and that's why this guy's a meme.
There's cool furniture in the world. I own an Aeron, with leather arms, that I bought factory 2nd for $600. And I can sit in it all day for weeks on end with nary a complaint. I could see my way to a knock-off Noguchi table. At $400, why not? A legit Noguchi at like $1800? get a grip.
This is one of the cooler features of hubski, IMO - a new comment on an old post can resurrect a discussion, by putting it back in people's feed.Edit: I just noticed this post is almost 2 months old. It just showed up on my feed, which is interesting and different.
I think OP hit the nail on the head with the perception Hipsters create around what they do. It's this whole almost mystic world where they go out of their way to make others feel ignorant or like an "outsider". (i.e THIS IS OUR THING AND YOU CAN'T PLAY BECAUSE YOU'RE A SQUARE). And that sentiment was echoed in a lot of the comments below the post. The irony is that they're essentially a community of outsiders, people who ostensibly have differing individual tastes but ultimately they are the mainstream they detest so much because they only exist inside their echo chamber. This is a pity because if it's true that hipsters have a level of discernment in terms of aesthetics that isn't inherent in most people, then they have the ability to become cultural pioneers and leaders, and by extension ensure the continued existence of their favourite fringe "thing" through mainstream profitability. Instead, they choose to isolate it from the mainstream and complain that no-one really supports it. Anyway, great post. Really enjoyed reading it.
Sounds like you need a brain scrubbing, so here you go. B52 Inertial Navigation Analog computer teardown and inspection How........????Then I had a sip of the coffee. It tasted like Folger's Brand Battery Acid.
Hipsters ironically shop at Walmart all the time. There's also the problem (well; "problem") that many locales are Walmart-poor. They're rare as hen's teeth up here in the PNW and were a hard drive in Los Angeles. But you're right - it's a difficult term. Look it up on UrbanDictionary; it's probably the longest entry they have.
cgod -I'm curious if you are familiar with this style of serving coffee?
Considering A) It doesn't control temperature B) It doesn't multitask C) It do anything but add carefully metered water to pre-measured coffee grounds It's insanely expensive. This is a Jobo ATL-3. You can't buy them anymore because nobody processes color film anymore, but when you could buy it, it was $4k worth of film developing lab that would control six different baths at temperatures precise to a tenth of a degree and move camera film in total darkness, completely automated, between all of them at times precise to a tenth of a second. Even accounting for inflation, you could have bought two ATL-3s new for the equivalent price of the magic whirligig thing. And then you would have needed the water heater. This is a Bernina 880. It's about $12,000, which is kind of mind-boggling for a sewing machine. However, the "how-to" video for threading the fucker is 12 minutes long (and fucking mesmerizing, I might add) and not only will it embroider multicolor patterns uploaded over USB, but will also: - cut appliques - hand-dye - fuckin' bedazzle ...a bunch of patterns that you upload on proprietary software. So yeah. It's expensive. Made in the USA, hipster approved, but mind-bogglingly expensive.
So this thing is supposed to be a pourover machine. To make a good snobby pourover you are supposed to prewet the grounds for about 30 seconds and let them gass out. I'm guessing this doesn't do that because they didn't show it. After prewet you are supposed to pour a thin stream of water as continuously as possible for two and one half minutes. Constant stream of water is supposed to maintain the correct temperature over the duration of the pour and keep all the grounds submerged for the duration of the extraction. This contraption only has one spout for five cups. Looks like it just pisses water in a hefty stream and moves on to the next cup, no constant temp varying water quantity. Might not matter all that much that it doesn't use good form. I don't think a pourover suffers all that much from being made with bad form. It does seem like you could put 5 nozzles on the thing, a thinner stream of water and make it pour according to the prevailing dogma at it's price point. A modern high tech extractor for air pots pours the water over the grounds with a prewet. It doesn't use a single thin stream, instead it has a kinda shower head pour out. I think the only reason for a thin stream is that it mimics a person holding a tea pot and that shower head might be just as good a model for a pourover machine. I wonder if you shrunk a Fetco down to a single cup extractor what the resulting coffee would be like. I'm guessing it would be a hell of a lot like a decent pourover, if you fiddled around with the brew basket and pour speed. A modern Fetco extractor runs about $1400-1800 I'm sure they could get a single cup 5 barrel out for $3k and it's temperature, speed of water flow, and duration of the flow are all programmable. I'm sure that this device is going to do well and that competitors to it will emerge with a much better product. I don't think such a device should cost more than 5k and it should work better than this thing appears to. A really nice espresso machine costs about 10k, just as a reference point.
It won't work without an Ecosmart PB10. No temp control at all - it takes the water at whatever temp you get it and sprays it around.
Embroidery machines aren't that expensive though. I bought my grandmother one for ~$500 in the mid 2000s, which was on the high end of consumer machines but I could get docs out of the manufacturer and give her a program that didn't suck at turning photos into patterns along with it, and the software the shipped with the things all sucked at doing that if they tried at all. She would have made enough throw pillows with cats, birds, long-demolished buildings and relatives on them to smother the world if she didn't keep running out of stuffing. She definitely got more than $500 and a week of hacking worth of use out of it. Bet you could assemble a collection of devices that could do most of the things that thing can for less than $12,000. I say "most" only because I kind of doubt the market is flooded with bedazzling machines. Also I have just admitted to more knowledge of embroidery than I ever intended to admit to publicly.
We were evaluating whether to get my wife's '75 Elna Super SU rebuilt (the buttonhole cam blew) or buy something new. This was when I discovered that the only Swiss left in the business were Bernina, they only had one mechanical, that mechanical wasn't as feature-rich as the Super SU and holy shit the high end on sewing machines had gone batshit. You're right - embroiderers aren't expensive. Really, they're a bunch of stepper motors and an ASIC controller. But we're talkin' the cadillac envy machine of all sewing machines and it still costs less than the coffeepisser once you add in, you know, a water heater.
I still have a lot to say about this but for now, re: sour coffee. It can be a few things. If you get a less than ideal batch of green coffee beans, or under extraction of solubles from coffee when brewing. Considering they're using a Steady Pour that likely isn't adjusted for...anything...it's likely the latter, not necessarily the roast.