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comment by ButterflyEffect
ButterflyEffect  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Grappling with hipster-hate

    They were our emotional shelter. Suddenly, the very people who we felt marginalized us were invading our world.

ding ding ding and when you consider how many of these hipsters of punk people or whatever the fuck you want to call them are overqualified for whatever (sometimes shitty) job they might be working, while living with 3-4 people after college with no end to this kind of shit in sight, what else can you expect. The economy is fucked in metropolitan areas and this is an outlet for people who don't have much else. I can go to some persons house who loves music and is a-ok with people drinking crap beer and thrashing around in their basement, or drinking crap beer and sitting around to some folk music. And yeah, you (a general you, not "rd95" you), probably won't feel comfortable in that situation and people aren't likely to go out of their way to make you feel comfortable because who are all these people in their thrift store clothing, tattoos, and piercings and why are they talking about things that often have no tangible impact on them oh right they're the people society likes to call unproductive or marginalize in whatever way possible.

Meanwhile, let's take a look at Capitol Hill in Seattle. Historically an LGBT neighborhood, a lot of creative people, marginalized people. Modern day: housing prices are absurd, tech folks have moved in and the bros of your nerd days have become the bros of the present day, homogenizing the area and opening the floodgates to push others out.

I Hate the Weekend kind of captures what I'm trying to talk about. Am I angry? Kind of, yeah, especially when last night I had a couple people ask me where the neighborhood right next to Capitol Hill is when it was pretty clear they just go find some bar, get plastered, and call it a night. Who are these hipsters supposed to open up to? How are they supposed to be expected to trust people to entertain the things they like without co-opting them?

Guess I'm just kind of angry at the air right now and I don't expect many people to agree with the above but oh well, that's life and that's Hubski.

rinx  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Just one thing I want to set straight - Cap Hill was historically a business district (mostly car stuff). Then it was a ghetto, with poverty, crime, rampant drug use. Then it became a gay / artist / hipster area, then it became the brogrammer paradise it is today. The hipsters complaining about getting kicked out are are conveniently forgetting they kicked out the broke addicts to move in. Hipsters aren't victims, they are another step in the gentrification chain.

cgod  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Who took their ball and went home? Feel like I should know who just inactivated but maybe not.

user-inactivated  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  


OftenBen  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  


veen  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  


edit: Bfx, if you're reading this, you can always come back. Take care.

rinx  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  


am_Unition  ·  1622 days ago  ·  link  ·  

god damnit

mk  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  


Stupid inactivate button.

thenewgreen  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

We communicated with one another last night and he said it has more to do with him and stuff going on in his life than Hubski or anyone here.

He knows that he is always welcome back. He may come back after a hiatus.

I hope so.

user-inactivated  ·  1622 days ago  ·  link  ·  

He should be 10bit.

mk  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Me too. We exchanged CDs. That's almost like blood brothers.

user-inactivated  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  
cgod  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  


thenewgreen  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Whatttt? No way

goobster  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Cap Hill was historically a business district (mostly car stuff). Then it was a ghetto, with poverty, crime, rampant drug use. Then it became a gay / artist / hipster area, then it became

As was Fremont, and Ballard, and Greenwood, and Georgetown, and ...

cgod  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
ButterflyEffect  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Fair, I muddied too much of that together. And now we're going to kick everyone out of the Central District whooooooooo.

user-inactivated  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Maybe I'm misreading the situation, but that sounds more like class struggle and gentrification to me. It doesn't sound like they're upset because a bunch of squares started riding fixies and recently discovered the melodic beauty that is the mandolin. It sounds like they're upset because being poor is painful, left, right, and center and to be reminded of that position, of poverty and marginalization, is frustrating. I dunno. Class and culture go hand in hand. It's the difference between a fiddle and a violin, between Dale Earnhardt Jr. and Jeff Gordon. At the same time though, as close as the two concepts are, they can also be separated.

ButterflyEffect  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah I've been having trouble maintaining a single line of thought lately, maybe a more direct reply would have been saying "take a look at Mumford & Sons and the rise and obliteration of folk music and/or look through peoples reactions whenever anybody signs to a major label."

Actually about a month ago now I brought somebody to a DIY show who had never been to one before, and generally hasn't exhibited much interest in those kind of shows. Throughout the night this person asked "where are people getting the beer from" "is everyone smoking because they think it's cool?" "oh so I don't have to donate?" and things along those lines. That's why people don't open these things up to the general public.

user-inactivated  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Resentment over capitalism taking your culture and selling it back to you has been a thing since the 70s at least, but I think it's novel that everyone else gets pissy about "hipsters" appropriating their thing. I see a lot of hate for industrial, noise and metal bands that get reviewed in Pitchfork and don't have much connection to the communities they're borrowing from (getting reviewed in Pitchfork but having that connection gets a pass), and the communities they're borrowing from are mostly outsiders too.

user-inactivated  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Mumford and Sons is to music what going to an Indian restaurant and asking for a chicken tandori with a "1" on the hotness scale is to food. People enjoy it because it's something new, something a bit off the beaten path, but still accessible. Someone enjoying Mumford and Sons does not in any way take away from your ability to enjoy music by The Pogues or Tallest Man on Earth. If anything, it gives you the opportunity to share further with people. "Oh, you just discovered Mumford and Sons and like them? Maybe you should check out some of these guys. They might be right up your alley."

Everything out there has something that is more appealing to "mainstream" people. Cars have Honda Civics. Folk music has Mumford and Sons. Coffee has Starbucks. On and on. The purists and the eclectics though? The people who have a true passion for their hobby? They still know how to find what they want.

ButterflyEffect  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

rubs eyes

    Hipsters arguably have good taste. I think that if they opened up a bit more, I think they'd discover that more regular people can appreciate what they appreciate to nearly the same degree.

This is where I disagree. This is what I attempted to outline. "I like folk music" "I like all kinds of music except country" "insert whatever else here" that effectively communicates "I like this but I have no nuance in what I like about it and haven't put forth the effort to delve beyond what's being given to me". I can recommend music to people and I have many, many times in the past, but the people in the above, the general, average person, does not, in my experiences take it upon themselves to take a deeper dive into these kinds even after providing some recommendations.

user-inactivated  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I can recommend music to people and I have many, many times in the past, but the people in the above, the general, average person, does not, in my experiences take it upon themselves to take a deeper dive into these kinds even after providing some recommendations.

So? That means they just don't care as much about music as you do. If you feel compelled to recommend something, because you think they'll enjoy it, do so, then let go. If they explore it, great. If not, once again their dispassion on the subject doesn't diminish your passion unless you let it.

Besides, your suggestion might stick with them, compounding on top of suggestions from others. Know how long it took me to watch Pulp Fiction from when I first heard it until I actually sat down and watched it? About a decade. Know how many times it was suggested to me in that time span? Probably 50. Eventually though, I sat down and watched it. Sometimes, even if you don't think you're reaching someone, you probably are.

ButterflyEffect  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

We clearly have very, very different levels of cynicism towards others.

user-inactivated  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm very cynical. Towards massive corporations, towards corrupt governments, towards people of power in general who abuse their positions. The average person though? Whether they are better or worse off than us in terms of privilege, wealth, influence, or what have you, they're still human, trying to get by like you and me. They're not being wilfully malicious or even wilfully neglectful. They're just being human. The best we can do is encourage them when they're doing right and speak up when we feel they are doing wrong. Sometimes though, you'll catch yourself calling someone an "asshole" under your breath. It happens. I do it all the time, whether I mean to or not.

kleinbl00  ·  1623 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Do I get points for hating Capitol Hill back to the mid '90s? Even when I was in college it was the U district at twice the price. Parking has always sucked, housing has always been run down, and the denizens have always lorded their digs over you.

I mean, I had 1500 square feet with a view of Lake Washington sort of in the no man's land between Wedgewood, Sand Point and Lake City and I had it for $900/mo. Meanwhile, I dated a girl who lorded her $800 portion of her shared-three-ways 1000sf 3BR on Cap Hill.

The cool spots have shifted from Downtown Pioneer Square to Georgetown to Ballard and Cap Hill has always been where idiots pay too much to convince other people they're cool.