a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
kleinbl00's badges given
someguyfromcanada  ·  21 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Lil told me to post this.  ·  x 2

Hi Lil. Hope the best for you.

I just had my tracheotomy tube removed. 14 months of Stage 4 terminal larynx cancer was fairly unexpected after my organ transplant. I've battled 5% and 1% chances of even living and I'm still here somehow. Just gained 47 pounds. Strong as ever. Hope everything goes as well for you. :)

1. 56 Weller Crescent.

2. I think I am but no one reads. Having been terminally ill for 5 years... no one reads that series.

3. Very long story. No one has given me support except one of three.


5. I'm not invincible. I've always done death defying feats but.having a heart attack, organ transplant and cancer within 10 years should humble me.

6.Yes I'm kinda resentful of my oldest friend who said some hurtful things over covid and the so called freedom convoy. I'm sad about that.

7. Am I going to still have cancer?

8. Professionally, changing case law and textbooks

Being quoted by the Supreme Court in a fundamental case.

Personally... getting all my neices and nephews to go to uni and paying for it.

9. Bukurije. My first girlfriend. We cool.

10. To be continued. I'm loving life right now

veen  ·  142 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: July 19, 2023  ·  x 3

I no longer have a girlfriend…

…because I now have a fiancée! We’re currently on holiday in the Italian Alps. When I mentioned our plans for our summer vacation to kleinbl00 he went “you know, being proposed to on a lake in Como is pretty storybook” and I was like “you’re not wrong that’s for sure”. Proposing had until that point been an idea for a future day, but we’re still going strong after five oftentimes turbulent years.

So after finally finding a ring two days before we left, carrying it in my camera bag where she wouldn’t have any reason to look around in, finding to a gorgeous green lakeside pergola in a beautiful village on Lake Como, and her mentioning how romantic this place is, I tell her I’d love to make a video of us with my new camera to capture this wonderful place and go down on one knee. She was completely surprised and elated. (And she loves the ring! Phew.)

I’m still surprised it worked out as well as it did. I even got the video exactly the way I hoped. Not that that matters too much, but it’s the cherry on the cake that I got both the composition right as well as the technical settings that I wanted (6.2K, 30fps, shutter at 1/60 with my variable ND filter and the Eterna Fuji film setting). It helps that my new Fuji camera has been a joy to (learn to) shoot with.

OftenBen  ·  290 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The Case for Hanging Out  ·  

We are so fucked if we need an academic defense of why it's a good idea to have friends and do things with them.

I get so frustrated with long time friends when they bum out on small social stuff because it's the small stuff that adds up to memories that make a lifetime.

I'll just continue to cook too much food on Friday nights and keep the invite open. I don't know what else to do.

am_Unition  ·  331 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: January 11, 2023  ·  

Guys, it's not a big deal.

Sorry I left in a tizzy.

I'll try to finally make it to shitting all over the recent optimistic fusion news within another week or so.

Glad to be back though, but I'm still on twitter 😬

bhrgunatha  ·  402 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: COVID-19 Origins: Investigating a “Complex and Grave Situation” Inside a Wuhan Lab  ·  

CCP has everything locked down so tightly, outsiders generally will never know the extent of censorship and totality of clampdown exerted. There were no results searching for mentions of Sitong Bridge Beijing on weibo or anywhere inside the great firewall recently. There are hundred or thousands or more police posted on bridges across China...

And anyone who's spent time in China will be aware of the pervasive chàbuduō attitude.

A mixture of a very pragmatic response to a situation, combined with meh, good enough, but it goes a lot further. It's also a very sharp, double edged sword.

Cable won't reach? Drill a hole in the door, feed it through... very pragmatic|meh good enough. Can't afford to buy and process vegetable oil, gutter oil..., so pragmatic|meh good enough.

Can't be bothered to follow to strict chemical/biological waste disposal procedures, dump it in the sewer.

chàbuduō also means if you can get away with it, you definitely should.

Now I'm not saying they were so slapdash with their attitudes, that a dangerous virus being experimented on for gain of function, funded by the US (because they aren't allowed to) - only co-incidentally the very virus that caused a worldwide pandemic killing millions - could have been exposed to the outside world accidentally because some fuckwit threw a virulent bat's carcass in the dumpster out back that one time because Joe Chao mixed up the labels on the infected/uninfected cages, or someone tore their protective clothing, or spilt a vial and just used a mop to clean it up because ... chàbuduō.

But that is exactly what happened.

Then the CCP machinery kicks in to cover it all up, now no-one will ever know the difference ... chàbuduō | meh good enough

user-inactivated  ·  435 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: September 28, 2022  ·  

I’m always honest with you guys, so I’m gonna be upfront here. I tried creating another account, baseballninja, but I have no idea how to activate it. So I found the password to an old account. I wrote all this last night, but here I am now. It’s been what, two years now? I don’t know. Time has lost meaning.

I’m here to pontificate about baseball, maybe cartoons like Ninja Turtles or some shit from time to time, but mostly baseball. I fell in love with it last year. Twitter is a cesspool of angry people and so many bots it’s not funny. Reddit is a hell hole. I don’t even fucking get discord, so here I am, because I’m lonely, my life is a disaster, and every day I go to bed alive is a small miracle.

If you want to know where I’m at, here’s a dump for you. It’s greyed out, cause shit gets really real, really quick.

Mental Health

I think dimensia is starting to kick in. I get confused and lost easily, have a hard time remembering words and events, and other shit.

I suffer from OCD, real, fucking, bad. We’re talking losing on average 2-4 hours a day just to hand washing and showering and shit. There’s times where I lose an hour just to a single hand washing session cause I just can’t get it right. The doctor I went to see for it, cause he was free at the time, accidentally made it worse. The coping mechanisms he taught me were for PTSD, a way to rationalize through your fears. Turns out, doing that shit makes OCD worse. Now that I know better, I’m trying to find a specialist for OCD here in the city, but wouldn’t you know it, no one is taking on new patients. Ever. No matter who I call, I get told to check back in three to six months. I’ve damn near given up.

My friends and social life

One turned into a red piller. Another is about to be homeless and there’s nothing I can do to help and I don’t know if I can bear to watch. Another is, I am starting to suspect, in some weird white nationalist uber conservative church and doesn’t fucking want to admit it. Another I’ve stopped talking to because they went shit crazy. Another lives literally 10 hours away. The Baha’is around here rarely do anything in person and the in person events they do are often when I’m working. Everyone else works when I’m free and vice Vera. My own fucking family never calls or texts unless I call or text first. I text friends memes to stay in touch. Outside my coworkers, my only socialization is with my wife, and for so many reasons that puts a strain on our relationship but we’re trying to manage.

My Career

I work at a pet store now, cause I can’t get a job anywhere else, and you’d think being a germaphobic animal lover who hates corporate America would make it hard enough, but worse, it’s in a baaad part of town. We’re talking having to have locks on our bathrooms because people use them for drugs and prostitution. We’re talking about witnessing people beat their own pets and children in front of God and everybody. We’re talking about a murder happening literally right next door cause two shoppers got into a heated argument during the holiday season. We’re talking serious tragic and fucked up homelessness. On and on I could go, the stories I could tell, you wouldn’t fucking believe me. They happen, I tell people about them, and no one ever fucking believes me except my coworkers, cause we’ve fucking seen it all. If one of you guys got a text from your roommate that said “Hey, you can’t come home right now. There’s an active shooter situation at our apartment complex and the police won’t let anyone in or out” you’d probably think it’s sensational or some shit. For the people I work with? That’s like the fucking weather report.

For real, I’m as kind as possible to as many people as possible at work every single day. Partly because I’m in so much pain, it brings reality into a new perspective that I want to do everything I can to keep other people from feeling what I feel on a daily basis. But also? I kind of don’t wanna get shot in the face cause I pissed off the wrong customer.

I’m in a dark, dark, dark place. There’s been some storms I’ve had to ride out and my m sure there’s more to come. I’m only here cause honestly, I don’t even fucking know what to do anymore. I’m not looking for help though, I don’t want sympathy or pity or support. I literally just want a safe corner of the internet to say shit like “This series between Boston and Baltimore has been insane and I can’t wait to see what happens next” or”here’s a list of catchers I think are amazing” or “I love that The Pirates give up on seasons so early, cause then they bust out the rookies and I love watching rookies hustle.”

So I’m back. I’m sorry and not sorry. I’ll warn you though, a lot of days, I’m just a ball of emotion. Put up with me or don’t, I don’t care, I’m gonna ramble about baseball anyway.

And if you’re blocked, it’s cause I barely have the energy to make it through the day, I don’t have any to put up with you. Doesn’t mean I hate. Doesn’t mean I think you’re a bad person. I’m just really, really tired.




I’m literally watching tonight’s Baltimore/Boston game while I wait for the ability to post. So here are thoughts.

Adley Rutschman is amazing. I have a special place in my heart for Jonah Heim and Tyler Stephenson though.

Boston’s City Connect Jersey is hideous. It looks like it belongs to some European Team. The Padres Jersey is worse. The Brewers and Angels have some cool ones though.

I’m surprised that Boston and Chicago White Sox both had seasons that fell apart. After Baltimore’s rough previous few seasons, this one was so fun, even if they don’t get a wild card slot. Can’t wait for next year for them. Or The Rangers.

I don’t care about pitch clocks, but I’m so glad they’re banning the shift. 4 men outfields and such were just stupid. Why even call them positions if they’re not gonna stick to them?

Players I love to keep an eye on. Jonah Heim. Oneil Cruz. Jonathan India. Keston Huira. Ryan Mountcastle. Way too many. On I could go.

Shohei deserves MVP.

Mancini being trade to Houston was a tragedy. Him being a bench player is a literal crime.

Is Kansas City even a real baseball team? I don’t think I’ve ever paid them even the remotest attention.

Fucking baseball. One of the few things that make sense. I’m glad I found it.




Woke up to use the bathroom and the wife’s Angels game was just starting. I sat down to watch a bit. Logan O’Hoppe is making his major league debut. He’s a catcher. I’m a sucker for catchers. I love catchers. So much ride on them. Watched a few innings. His first MLB at bat was a clean single, maybe he’ll be okay.

veen  ·  476 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Californians asked to cut power use as extreme heat approaches  ·  

I'm off for three days and you guys start talking about EV charging. Literally doing 1200km in two days in a 66kW Hyundai. A few points to add to the discussion:

1) you charge where you park. You top up in quick breaks when you need to go further. Nobody wants to fastcharge, so we expect it to become a much smaller part of driving than gas stations are now. Over here we expect just 13% of all EV charging to be at (highway) fast chargers. Imagine if you could fill up your car with water. Would you really opt to fill it up at a random industrial parking lot you could also drop a hose in it on your own driving lane and at work for half the price? How about your employer realizing they could make money by offering you free charging when you allow them to use your car as a battery storage? Opportunity charging, which is that you charge when your car is standing still anyway, is the inevitable way forward.

2) The US is dearly lacking in both fast and destination chargers. Range anxiety disappears once those two are remotely reliable - I know this from first hand experience and from a bunch of studies done on the Dutch charging station network, which happens to leave every other country in the dust. As soon as it's a common sight for there to be a charger in a parking lot, people stop complaining. Because I already have the luxury of a dense and reliable network of destination and fast chargers, I almost never have to worry, and I also almost never fastcharge. Colleague of mine has a charger at home and at work and he's never even used a fastcharger. Because if you leave full and can charge at your destination, that's two charging stops eliminated. So a <car range> mile trip both ways is made possible by just one charger at my destination, that happens to also be a decent way to make money for businesses with a large energy connection. Tesla drivers love their Superchargers, but normal people will avoid them if they can. And if you do need them - for most people, as soon as your EV can do 100+ kW of fast charging, which is "most new models and probably whatever first model upper class people will buy", nobody minds the stops because you'll be ready to drive another 150-200 miles right when you're done taking a piss or grabbing a coffee. Especially when you factor in that charging is cheaper per mile than gas.

3) What will drive the change in chargers? Well, the business case for EV destination chargers is decent. The case for rapid chargers is VERY good as soon as you hit a certain level of daily users. There is less overhead and less insurance than a gas station. It never needs refills, and you can basically just plop one down and wait for your investment to pay off. Even a small station can draw traffic, or can boost sales. The number of rapid chargers that aren't Tesla has doubled in less than eighteen months over here. We fully expect every supermarket, DIY store, McDonalds and Starbucks (any place that you will park at for more than 20 minutes and that owns the land it's on) to follow suit.

4) Smart charging capabilities have been made mandatory on all public slow charging stations here. The collective energy use of EVs will be a hit on the grid, but it's in the form of "small spikes in many places", which is something that grids are in theory perfectly capable of handling if dimensioned correctly. The real problem that will fick things up are heavy vehicles. They consume a factor 10-15 more energy than cars per km and require near 1MW chargers if you want to top them up along the way. The energy use of industrial zones can easily increase by TWh's if adopted widely, which is not the case of personal vehicles. And the TCO, which is nearly always the main driver of any EV adoption rate, however is good enough that the trucks will be here before the infrastructure is upgraded.

5) I still dream of a V2G system of energy brokerage whereby we can delay daily power use with cars and home batteries. The realities are complicated, and the rise of EVs seems to be going just a bit too fast for V2G to catch up. My city is one of the first to realize what you guys are theorizing about.

But it's the result of one incredibly entrepreneurial dude who's been at this problem for 8 years. Wider adoption... I don't know. I hope so.

Quatrarius  ·  515 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: What is a Woman, Anyway?  ·  x 2

"If so, then why does a person assigned at birth as a male but who identifies as a female need to remove the penis? Why does a person assigned at birth as a female but who identifies as a male need to add a penis? If a “woman” or a “man” is whatever anyone claims as their identity based on internal beliefs and feelings instead of external equipment—as one online influencer told Walsh, “Some people are boys, some people are girls, some are both, some are neither. Gender is all about how you feel on the inside and how you express yourself.”—then why would anyone put themselves through the ordeal of transitioning?"

what a lack of understanding of the motivations behind transitioning, of the concept of dysphoria / struggling with the stark contrast between self-perception and appearances / the way you're treated. why would a skinny teen with dreams of becoming a bodybuilder ever want to exercise and build muscle? why would a married woman who wants to have an affair take off her wedding ring at a bar? this is the crucial misunderstanding that so many people fail to even realize they're making - to be a woman is to be treated like a woman, to be a man is to be treated like a man. we define what it is to be a particular gender through our behavior and our expectations, not through some collection of meat. why is a graceful ship on the water called she? why is a deeply pitched computer generated voice perceived as a man's? because we associate these characteristics to them. why is a mother-in-law a go-to person that comedians joke about not wanting to talk to? all it is is the mother of your spouse, there's nothing inherently bad about that, right?

the entire trans "debate" relies on the confusion between what is real and what is bestowed on real things by our behavior. sure, you can say that a woman is a vaginahaver and a man is a penishaver - but are you gonna say to little David "hold on, sport, let's see your cock before you can go play with the boys"? no - you hear the name, you see the clothes, you perceive all the things that we associate with the category "boy", and you let him play and live his life

but not for long! if these trannytrackers win the """"debate"""", soon we will all be reduced to meat

veen  ·  598 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: On the Clock: Your Office Is Open and the Liquor Is Flowing   ·  

    The company is trying to resurrect office camaraderie but a number of her co-workers don’t drink. “It’s funny that that’s such a heavy part of trying to keep people invested so you don’t lose them,” she says.

the vibes they are a-shiftin'

Devac  ·  645 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: March 2, 2022  ·  x 2

After almost no driving since getting a license, I've completed five runs to the border. Full load both ways, carrying food and supplies my brother organized one way and people back. Three, aunt and her daughters, will be staying with us for the time being. Well, 'aunt'; we settled on it because even if there is a name for "great-grandfather's sister's granddaughter," nobody cares. Bro hired one of them already to accelerate what little paperwork they might need later on, but they're already on the social services. The rest I brought had other families to take them. It's our drop in the sea.

It's not well there, obviously. Already I've seen too many idiot nationalists protesting against 'immigration,' concentrating near areas for refugees. Provoking, assaulting, others exploiting. Human thrash, all of them. Because I have no idea what news comes your way, just don't let it distract you from who the real dirtbags are or what a simultaneous humanitarian catastrophe and effort are happening. Yes, I know, most of you are much savvier in politics than I am, but same most of you have repeatedly proven themselves at obsessing with whatever topic du jour mildly turned your head. And if you think this is insulting or exaggerating, hold onto your pants -- three years ago, if someone tweeted Trump wipes with his left, you could bet there'd be a thread about whether or not he pets the #whiterabbit with it. Don't lose perspective. Don't let it become some blasé gossip shit in a month.

I'll be going into other topics now. In part because of exhaustion, both physical and topical. When time is dense with events, it's gonna be either major themes only or a flood of information, and nobody's in the mood for the latter. Made me appreciate truckers even more, though.

Also, because the car is a 20-year-old piece of shit VW Golf I bought in December for $200 to learn car repairs/maintenance, it's short of a miracle it hadn't died a single time.

Also also, it's a good thing that at my current job, you can excuse any work delays with "yeah, so the maths got more complex than expected, will have to derive it algebraically instead." In my experience, it can buy up to three weeks.

I did my postdoc interview during a refueling break. It probably went poorly, though the interviewers seemed impressed when I corrected their article misquote from memory and answered both versions of the question. Them nagging me about why we didn't reschedule visibly pissed me off, and if this will cost me the job, good riddance. What the fuck do you think would be different apart from smart-casual attire?

Once driving became routine, the monotony of it settled. Played a D&D game by phone twice, which was crazy, but it was a boost of energy that couldn't have come at a better time. One of the TBA characters from the last time is a rogue, who is such an over-the-top gothy edgelord he'd make Tim Burton cream his laced-up pantaloons in a blink. The ranger player had to postpone again, but she's working for the Ministry of the Interior, and it's hard for a better excuse.

I don't know if I have it in me to do this more than once. The car isn't taking it well, and I sure as hell can't keep going like that more than a week. There's desire to help, and there's practicality. Instead, I'm seriously considering volunteering to IT security groups our gov organizes, but between dual citizenship and police record, I suspect my prospective clearance level is somewhere between LOL and "don't bother."

Now I'm going back to sleeping it off. Leaving you with this fun chess puzzle for all levels and ages.

White moves, checkmate in two.

user-inactivated  ·  726 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: "The hookup moment has likely passed."  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
necroptosis  ·  744 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: November 24, 2021  ·  x 3

There are a lot of emotions running deep today. The past nine years have one hell of a trip. The person I was when I signed my name on the dotted line is vastly different from the one who signed out today. I've had quite a few drinks to celebrate the end so it's a little bit difficult to truly reflect but.. man idk. I'll try and put together a small album together within the next couple days of my favorite moments. The military has allowed me to meet countless interesting people, visit 30+ countries, and develop myself to a level I would have never before thought possible. While I never posted much on hubski I would like to thank y'all for keeping me somewhat grounded-just lurking and reading has been significant. When surrounded by the echo chamber of the army this website has always been a refuge to maintain at least a little intellectual capacity.

Quatrarius  ·  778 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Netflix employees walk out to protest Dave Chappelle’s special.  ·  x 2

i think that jokes about a discriminated minority should primarily be funny to that minority more than any general audience. i think that jokes about a discriminated minority that are designed to be funny to a general audience, but not to that minority, are not jokes that work.

trans people take these jokes seriously because they aren't funny to trans people. it's hard to not take something seriously when it's not funny to you. i want to repeat that i'm not insulted by the jokes in the special, they just make me sad. i think that these kinds of jokes don't help the community and just add onto the pile of cultural messaging against trans people. i think that this is the new battlefield of the culture war, and that trans people who react negatively to this special will continue to become targets. when you say "why is it being taken so seriously," this is why. comedy doesn't just float in the air - comedy is powerful. comedy can be used to reinforce certain attitudes, or undermine them. comedy and politics are connected to each other. you can be a carlin-type of comedian and use comedy to show how society is rigged for the powerful, or you can be the kind of comedian that uses comedy to reinforce existing stereotypes. i do not feel liberated by chappelle's humor about trans people. i do not welcome his takes on trans people. again, if i was to get up on stage and postulate about The Black Experience In America, i would fully expect to be reamed for it because i don't know what i'm talking about. when i hear dave's jokes about trans people, it is very clear that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

i don't want to censor comedy. i don't want to "cancel" anybody. it's very clear that the trans community at large is unable to cancel anybody, given that chappelle and ricky gervais and the like all still have careers. they can continue to make hacky jokes at my expense for as long as they want to for all i care. i just don't see why i have to pretend that it's all in good fun, and to lighten up - it's the standup comedian version of "boys will be boys" - he snapped your bra strap in front of your friends, but it's because he likes you, so just let him do it - it was just a joke

i will never be a model minority that puts up with being mocked, no matter whether you think that makes me a killjoy.

b_b  ·  786 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The Mysterious Case of the COVID-19 Lab-Leak Theory  ·  

Ummmm, remind me: Did the baby-killing Zika virus arise 300 meters from the only lab in the world who holds similar Zika viruses and whose stated research goals are to modify the Zika virus in exactly the hyper-pathological way that it behaves in the wild, while that behavior has never before been observed among the tens of thousands of other known Zika viruses? Can't remember.

steve  ·  808 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: September 22, 2021  ·  

I'm making a fairly significant career shift. I'm leaving the safety of four years at a comfortable gig as a mid-level manager in operations/tech to be an individual contributor learning and development guy at a startup. It's a move I've been pondering for a while, and trying to figure out how to break into, and somehow I just convinced this company I'm the right person for the job. I'm equal parts excited and terrified. The swag from the new company showed up in a box yesterday moments before my current CEO passive aggressively (and embarrassingly) pleaded with me to stay at the current company (in a meeting in front of other people) - It was awkward and awful.

I start the new job next week. Lots of change in the pub this week, and I'm happy to be a part of it.

Cumol  ·  817 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: ‘Never Forget’ Is Breaking America   ·  

I remember the day. It was weird. I went to junior high school back then, I think I was in 7th or 8th grade... At home, my father had the TV on aljazeera and he kept repeating "bin Laden finally got you, you maniacs", while his face mirrored the horror he was watching on TV, and knowing fully what that meant for everyone. The next day at school everyone was talking about it in class, and everyone was EXTATIC. Celebrating. I remember that some discussions broke out about it where some students were arguing that the attack killed civilians, but many were quick to counter that many many more civilians were killed by the USA all over the middle East and that this was the only way to do anything against the military power that is the US. In case you didn't realize, virtually everyone in the middle East hates the USA, and usually has a valid reason why to.

I didn't know what to think. I understood both arguments. And even though it is obvious what was right and wrong and that terrorist attacks should never be supported, I still struggled in taking a stance.

Once I made up my mind though, I kept my opinion to myself. Because loudly speaking out against the attacks was an act of treason.

While reading the article, it struck me how the same 12% in the states that were against the war in Afghanistan (and were called traitors), are probably the parallel group to the ones in the middle East who did not support the attacks and were also seen as traitors.

That day, hatred won. Everyone knew what was coming. The wrath of the almighty would thunder down onto the whole middle east for decades. The results of which we see today.

What did it bring? More hatred. More trauma. More generations of hatred.

I sometimes wonder what would have happened if we would rather have the "traitors" on both sides in positions of power instead of the "warriors" and "heros".

b_b  ·  842 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: August 18, 2021  ·  

Today is my 10 year anniversary of being a Hubski member. Long time. A lot has happened in that time. I have easily spent more time on this website than any other over that stretch. Big ups to mk for making this place. I had the good fortune to help out in a rotating group of 4 or 5 of us who used to try to help keep the lights on here. Met a lot of good people that way, including some intense relationships that are and were very meaningful to me outside of the internet, some of which faded away and some of which were soured by my sometimes inept social abilities. Though I regret that the activity on the site isn't what it once was, it's a great community nonetheless.