Okay, I yield. Holy fuck, I yield.
For those of us that do follow global, it is now a complete miasma of askreddit refugees. And, as with every other time this has happened, most of them will flame out after three days and go away, leaving a kernel of new blood.
I'd like to skip to the end, please.
I recognize that this isn't technically a bug, it's a feature request... but if I had a parameter that allowed me to ignore users younger than "X" I could manually put all the fishes on a 7 day waiting period.
And I would like that, please.
As someone who joined the site roughly half an hour ago, I agree. I'd happily browse the site ignored while reading the content,
the sort of person who leaves a site or thinks worse of it just because s/he's not getting enough attention isn't one I'd want to interact with in the community. this would keep maturity levels higher, because someone who can't cope with the immaturity following summer break or another community leaking into this will have the power to ignore them, and stay with us, aswell as the possibly immature new-commers being likely to leave due to lack of attention. And that's why in my (low valued) opinion this should be a feature.
You'd be surprised at how far some of the relationships you'll form here can go.
I don't even know this reference and I'm laughing out loud.
That was one of my proudest moments in life. In my comment I was referring to cgod. He's been going above and beyond in helping me with my move to Portland.
That is amazing, BLOB_CASTLE I must admit I'm skeptical and pretty sure a lot of that would need pretty thorough cleaning once its in the dumpster, but holy hell good on you. I'm a similar way about organic foods, but not in a Whole Foods way, I mean I like to pick my fruits and vegetables, and kill my own meat too. This is still very possible in Armenia, although milk tastes awful in comparison to the processed/pasteurized dairy im used to here.
PS did you eat the sushi._.
I can't remember where I've seen it, but there was a site or forum focused on user-generated content I used to frequent way back which had the rule that you could not submit new stuff before being registered for a few days and having posted at least n comments. This kind of forced you to be part of the community, browse existing content and get yourself accustomed to the way the site worked before it allowed you to actually contribute. I found that to be a really good idea, to be honest, but I haven't seen anything like this again. And this is also coming from someone who has joined Hubski only a little more than an hour ago. So do it.
n comments encourages spam. It's and idea that has been discussed in the past and it didn't get much traction. People use hubski in many different ways, some people almost never comment but post some interesting content, some people start with a lot of content and get drawn into commenting later.
Welcome, fellow newb! I think If this is inplemented, It'll be interesting to see if it creates a more "hive-minded " community, which I think would mean more friendly discussion with a lot in common,
but at the same time maybe put us at risk of circle jerk.
Welcome caelum, it's awesome to see a new user dig in so quick and offer something good, I know I'm still adjusting to this day. I feel that Hubski has a pretty solid buffer against any sort of "behavioral problems" like hivemind and circlejerking. The risk is higher when a new wave of users is large enough to immediately assimilate with themselves and the "people here first" would have no power to show what Hubski truly is-- or was, prior to the new wave. Imagine Columbus stumbling on a much more
advanced civilization and trying to pull the same shit. With numbers big enough he'd succeed, because this "advanced" community is still relatively small in population. By giving some time for a new wave to simply experience Hubski prior to "settling," they're encouraged (forced really) to acknowledge the status of the community before the wave. This wouldn't force them to mimic us because the closest thing we have to a hivemind is a handful of common interests, and I know first-hand how easy it is to introduce something pretty much new to the community-- it is not shunned or ignored, it's taken like a fresh perspective and learning experience, just like it should be. A new user would simply be more aware that this is a community to spark trade with, not try to invade.
You know what I like? I like when people don't just say, "this sucks," but rather say, "this sucks and here is a potential solution." -Thanks for that. Sincerely. It's a really interesting idea. I would think it would have to be a toggle that you would have to turn on in your settings. But it makes a world of sense to me.
Li'l story. Every year for April Fools Day, Reddit does something jackassed. Reddit Mold. "Everyone's an Admin." "Team Periwinkle" or whatever the fuck that was. And every year, those of us in /r/defaultmods and other cloistered centers of power say "why don't you use that day to, you know, beta-test new site functionality? Like, I dunno, close the defaults for a day or hide karma or something. You know, so you could learn a little without truly pissing people off." And every year, they continue to do some jackassed thing like fucking time travel and shit. Know how you did "Illuminated" and it's within an inch or two of actually being a damn cool theme? Next April Fool's, give me like six pages of preferences. Take notes on usage. Let us see what works and what doesn't. I beta test for Eventide. I do this because I fell in love with their hardware nearly 20 years ago. And they've got some seriously sophisticated shit - they were doing physical modeling for their reverbs back in '94. All of their algorithms have preferences. Some of their algorithm preferences have "advanced" preferences. And some of their "advanced" preferences have "tedium" preferences. That is, in fact, the word they use. And while most people will never dive into the "tedium" of Swept Combs, if you decide to do so you can truly conjure magic. Don't fear preferences. Just arrange them such that they help, rather than hinder.
|"Team Periwinkle" or whatever the fuck that was. The joke was that Reddit bought Team Fortress 2, and implemented the game on Reddit.
Nope, but it beats the hell out of zero days. Also, "Illuminated" is a style you can run right now. Go check it out. We whinged and mk let us keep it. Then we whinged some more and insomniasexx polished it to the point where it's nearly usable. I still switch to it sometimes.
Note the posts by water and tally below! If enough of us very-active-hubskiers use this ignore function, I'm not sure exactly who is going to last through their first seven days using hubski. I am, after some thought, extremely and totally against this feature. I understand why it can definitely help us (and yes I just browsed global, yikes) but I DO NOT think it helps hubski at all.
...but then, you're often of the mindset that options are mandates. Back in the halcyon days of PHPbbs and forums without voting, it was assumed that lurking was expected behavior. One didn't stumble into a new forum and start out with HEY GUISE NICE CITE WATS UP, one lurked, read the faq, browsed the threads and opined only when one had something to contribute. Then, of course, /b/ won over /. and we ended up with a "digg this" mentality. And now here we are. I never had a Digg account. I browsed it for a week. I browsed Reddit for a month before I had an account and lurked for another month before I posted my first comment. I recognize this makes me positively deviant by today's standards, but the comments you're talking about say, essentially, "that would hurt my feelings." Here's the thing: If I think you'd be better served by sitting down and reading for a while before you contribute, and you think you'd be better served by contributing before you sit down and read, allowing me to ignore your ass for a week serves both our purposes: - I don't have to deal with your "HEY GUISE WHOS ALSO FROM TEH REDDITS" phase - You don't have to deal with my "GET OFF MY LAWN NEWFAG" phase ...and (x) number of days later, we can converse like civil people.
That, or, enough people use this feature that no one sticks around for longer than seven days because it's a bit of a graveyard. This reminds me of shadowbanning. Your solution does not differentiate people who join and immediately "get" hubski ... they get screwed too. Maybe they leave. If it comes to something like this, I think I prefer the up-front approach I mentioned below of alerting new users that they aren't allowed to post for a few days (or maybe until they do their first hubwheel thingie). Essentially forcing them to lurk a bit and learn what sort of content we encourage at hubski -- but not in an underhanded way. Neither of these solutions is perfect.
Hey - enough people bitched about tags going away that we got tags back. Rather than shout-out, lemme just say this: HEY HUBSKI DEVELOPER P33PS: Do me a solid, since you've got the code. Cross-check your list of followers with a list of users active in the past 90 days. How long is the trail of dead? I'm gonna guess "hella long." Rate of attrition is a serious thing around here and, by definition, those that flame out after a week are not a part of the steady-state culture. An optional 1-week ignore would have allowed all of us to bypass the SRS invasion, for example.
And your solution might increase that rate of attrition by causing users who would have become followers to join the "trail of dead" instead of sticking it out. If, when I had joined, certain crucial members hadn't shared my posts, commented on them, responded to my comments, etc -- I probably wouldn't have stayed.I'm gonna guess "hella long." Rate of attrition is a serious thing around here and, by definition, those that flame out after a week are not a part of the steady-state culture.
If I ignored you, would you know? If ten people ignored you, would you be prevented from posting? If a hundred people ignored you, could you not have a conversation? So riddle me this, batman. What was your first post? And how long had you been here when you made it?
You are willfully ignoring my point. If enough people had been using your feature when I joined hubski, ten, a hundred, whatever, then I likely would not have stayed because the conversations would have struck me as nonexistent or very limited. Don't remember/no clue. Probably 2-3 days, which is easily long enough. Six hours is long enough if you're intelligent. Do you have anything to say about this as an alternative?So riddle me this, batman. What was your first post? And how long had you been here when you made it?
If it comes to something like this, I think I prefer the up-front approach I mentioned below of alerting new users that they aren't allowed to post for a few days (or maybe until they do their first hubwheel thingie). Essentially forcing them to lurk a bit and learn what sort of content we encourage at hubski -- but not in an underhanded way.
I'm not. I didn't know that was your point. If this is your point: ...then I would point out that the people that would have ignored you for long enough for you to bounce would not be the people who would have kept you in the first place. Here's another insight: I am not, in general, a hostile and antisocial individual (believe it or not). However, if I am feeling hostile and antisocial, IT BEHOOVES US BOTH not to interact. If I have already concluded that your capacity to irritate is due to your recent appearance, I will prejudge all comments from new people as irritating. If I'm in a state where all new comments irritate me, it benefits not only me, but those new people who are commenting to prevent me from interacting with them. And that's where you're ignoring my point: You see this as censorship. I see this as voluntary withdrawal. I'm not saying "keep the n00bs from posting." I'm not saying "silence the n00bs." I'm saying "let the n00bs go about their business without risking my wrath." I am one user. I wish for better tools to shape one user's experience. The impact of those tools will most directly affect one user, and may or may not have any effect whatsoever on the experience of other users (ignored users' comments still show up in your feed as a strikeout - it's not like they're X'd from the earth). Yet you think this is better: So whereas I'm saying "help me quiet the din of the chattering class with a better set of earplugs" you're saying "let's keep it down by enforcing a code of silence." Your alternative sucks. I'm not attempting to shape anyone's behavior but my own. I'm not attempting to curb anyone's user experience but my own. I'm not attempting to alter the makeup of the site for anyone but myself. You? You're inflicting a draconian and arbitrary solution on everybody.You are willfully ignoring my point.
If enough people had been using your feature when I joined hubski, ten, a hundred, whatever, then I likely would not have stayed because the conversations would have struck me as nonexistent or very limited.
If it comes to something like this, I think I prefer the up-front approach I mentioned below of alerting new users that they aren't allowed to post for a few days (or maybe until they do their first hubwheel thingie).
Well, if we did do anything like it, it would be default off, for sure. Also, 7 days is probably more than what would be effective. It's an interesting concept, that's worth some consideration. I have more to say on this, but unfortunately I'm on a 10 min break between a day long thing. I'll return to this.
If you're gonna change settings, can you do these two things? 1. When you hover your mouse over a setting, a text fades in (on the right side of the yes/no box) what the feature does. Not all names are self-explanatory, like feed-times. 2. Maybe change the alert settings to multiple checkboxes? Eg. "Get notified when you receive a:" This also helps break the now seemingly long list of settings.
#1 is easy enough and a good idea. We can do that. #2 is also a good idea, but will take some time. You would be surprised how crazy the code behind settings is. It's like a gordian knot. Untangling it has been on my to do list for some time, and settings will be much improved when I do. So that's a: "Yes, soon" and a "Yes, but I can't say when".
SUGGESTION: Every time we have a large influx of users complaining how Reddit is going downhill and is doomed and so on and so forth, we link them to all previous submissions that state the say thing. With special emphasis on the conspiracy one. On-topic: This is an interesting idea, but if a lot of people were to start using it it might serve to create a self-perpetuating culture among new users when we get a bombardment of them. Oh and I enjoy watching you occasionally deconstruct people so I'm a bit biased.
This, in my mind, is the highest calling of the primer page and the tag #newtohubski. To make the culture and not-reddit-ness of the site immediately apparent, and to connect those new users with one another, in a mutual understanding of 'It's fine if I post, but I have to understand what, and why I'm posting.' Also 'Why a circle-dot is not an upvote' and 'Why a hubski tag is not a subreddit' but those come second to content.create a self-perpetuating culture among new users
are the primer pages and noob links immediately imposed on a new user? How do we guarantee they get the message? Maybe this is a question for thenewgreen, hate to tag you I'm sure you've got way too much on your plate right now.
hate to tag you
-No worries, it's a good question. When you joined you should have had a tutorial. That's about what we have at this point. That said, steve is currently in the works on an intro video and we will have links to the primer page at the end of the video.
I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. As a sidebar, did you know that Aunt Jemima was a post-Bellum stock character from Minstrel shows, whose structure bears more than a passing resemblance to Commedia Dell'Arte (though turned on its head) which I still haven't written about.
I was thinking something similar about the self perpetuating culture, I don't want to find Hubski becoming segregated when a large enough influx of users comes in to create their own "corner" of the site. But I do think a temporary opt-in ignore function for those of us who don't want to deal with #askhubski becoming askreddit for a few days would be beneficial as a possible solution. I would be happy with something to that effect that only becomes active when a large amount of users join in a certain time frame.
Please don't feel that way. Trying to figure out how to best bring new users into the fold is something that's been under construction for EVER. Lurk moar, follow interesting people and tags, and post quality content.Aw, see, now I feel like I'm intruding :/
Not necessarily true. This website isn't about building the biggest userbase. We're not karma or pageview-count-whores. This website could cap out at 300 people and as long as they were the right 300 people, no one would give another damn about the topic. Hubski isn't about numbers. It's about the right people having interesting, thought-provoking discussions about topics that are worth it. It's about people sharing 10-page-long articles because fuck it, I really want to read about the history of shipping pallets. It's not a website that is designed to appeal to everyone and for chrissakes I hope it never does. New users who leave because "they aren't getting enough attention" are the wrong type of user. Just curious, how many new follows have you gotten today, kleinbl00 ?the opposite of what the site wants.
While I understand that new users might be annoying I think that "the right users" could also feel discouraged if no-one interacted with them at all.
The problem is, the structure of the site means that all new users are already globally ignored. Before one has any followers, they are a nobody and the only people who will see their posts are people browsing global or if the tags line up properly. This is already a huge barrier to entry and I imagine a large part of the reason why the retention rate is so low on this site. I myself felt very discouraged when I first came here because it seemed like the old guard of popular users had huge sway, and that if I didn't get noticed by them, my posts would effectively go unnoticed by the site at large. I think framing the discussion in terms of the "right people" and equating that with the people who manage to be patient and persevering enough to make it past the initial wall of obscurity is not really accurate. The site is already frustrating enough to break into, I don't see any good reason to make it even more difficult for new users.
Hmm. This is true, but how many of us 300 wouldn't have stuck around if we'd joined a site where everyone had us ignored for seven days? You can say that the "good guys," the users we want to keep, will start by browsing and reading and not be bothered that no one notices them until day 8, but how many of us who actually joined and have now been here for months actually didn't contribute until the second week?
I'd really like it if we could drop the (in my opinion) utterly hysterical notion that just because this feature might come into existence, therefore every active user on the site will use it in order to block new users out. While I think that feature would be nice, I highly doubt we're going to see mass ignoring of newbies. I doubt that I would use it, I doubt that thenewgreen would use it, I doubt lil and insomniasexx and nowaypablo would use it, and judging by your response you wouldn't use it either. So why are we still dithering about last-world apocalypse "OH NO PEOPLE MIGHT GET IGNORED" scenarios? Flag, for the record, my irritation isn't at you but at the fact that multiple users have now shuddered, clutched their pearls, and gone essentially But - but - but if this exists, new users won't be interacted with in any way at all! a theory which I find alarmist, reactionary, exaggerated, and about as likely as any apocalyptic, 100% use scenario.
One can shut off notifications temporarily, I suppose. I will never forget the warm welcome I had to this site from the ever-present newgreen Hubski is potentially transformative for people who like some of their friends to be warm, supportive, loving, funny, and far away. So I probably would not use the seven-day-newbie block. I've already had some totally positive interactions with our new hubbies. But we seem to have crashed the system.Currently fighting two notifications a minute while trying to accomplish something.
from kb's post. I'm putting it here as I don't want to give him a third notification.
Well if it's really a good feature, then people will use it. If it's not, then we don't need it. I would almost certainly use it. That's the problem. It's good for the existing users (very good) but not for the new ones. That said I thought we were talking about ignore/mute/hush and if it's just ignore that's better. HOWEVER, isn't it much more elegant to just pop a little thing up that says, "Hey, new user of <7 days, you aren't allowed to post yet because we want you to acclimate. We encourage you to read posts, comment intelligently and make friends. After a week you can begin posting." mk, insomniasexx, kleinbl00 - thoughts?
I'm just going to keep linking to past discussions apparently. What Hubski can learn from "old-timey" forums So this amazing post by doesntgolf had so many good talking points but this one specifically got a lot of discussion going: Responses: The other day, mk made it so that users that haven't completed a hubwheel can only send a single PM every 10 minutes, which I think is great. Similarly, I think it'd be great if new users couldn't submit a new post until they've commented 10 (or 25 or some other amount) of times.
It's my opinion that restricting someone's ability to post until they've commented is a bad idea. Some of my favorite content on the site comes from users that rarely comment. For instance, scrimetime. -The guy might as well have been born a mute, he rarely comments but the links he posts are quality and I can usually count on them to be something I'd like to share. -There's a lot of value in that.
-thenewgreen I think this is a fantastic idea right off the bat. Now I'm going to go try and think up reasons why it sucks, but it feels so right to me. (EDIT: Already found good counterpoints in the discussion. Still digging the idea though)
-ecib4. To the extent we can get away with it, I'd rather not decide how people use the site, but let the users decide who to follow and share, or ignore.
-mkNew users limits No opinion on this, as I have no idea what new user misbehaviour is like. What I would say thought is that currently, while operating from a fairly tight member base, the balance should be tipped towards encouraging new users rather than freezing them out.
-istaraThis is the point I disagree most in your list of propositions. I remember when i first signed up, i actually posted links BEFORE commenting, but the comments and reactions to what I posted led me to stay. Many users rarely or even never comment, but post great links. So if i'm a new user and REALLY want to post something, I'll probably type out 10 low quality comments just to be able to post... Which will actually decrease the overall quality of Hubski since the main appeal are the thoughtful comments.
-elizabeth
Okay, interesting. What I'm saying though, is that the idea I came up with in thirty seconds of thinking that probably isn't very good is better than the alternative (kb's idea) in my opinion. His feels too much like sneaky shadowbanning. I'd prefer to be up-front with new users if we actually go through with something like a time-sensitive posting block.
This is an interesting way of looking at it and I don't agree or disagree. In fact, I'm still out on whether or not kb's idea is good or bad. It isn't transparent but it's also not global in the sense that any one person or persons has control over the global feed. It would be a way for a single user to edit what is shown in their global feed in that moment. If done as a toggle, it would be less powerful that ignoring a user as it would act more like a filter than an action you take against people. The thing that bothers me most about not allowing new users to post, and maybe this is just me, is that forums have done that. They've also shown on every thread how long a user has been around, given them titles for being around longer and being more active. But when you join a new forum, you can't do shit, you feel like a n00b, and, if the forum has been around for a while, there is no way you can ever compete with the top users who have been around forever. By nature, humans are competitive and when I see "most amazing user ever. 5838392 karma. joined 1029 days ago. ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆" it makes me want to make my numbers bigger. But I can't. And that inspires hopelessness and makes it more likely that I won't even stick around and comment and post because there's no way I can ever catch up. By not showing these things next to every users post/comment, it doesn't inspire that competitiveness/hopelessness and I think people are more likely to stick around become part of the community. I may be wrong, but there are a couple forums that I really could've liked but just didn't feel like spending the energy trying to get to a point where I had enough shit not to be seen as a n00b. I also never want Hubski to feel unwelcoming to new users. Ever.His feels too much like sneaky shadowbanning.
elizabeths reply at the bottom is spot on. People will comment meaningless drivel to get to the ability to post. Spot on. It's the beginning of the end if we ever implement such a thing.
And again here I do disagree. Hush, mute, and ignore are great features. I love that I have them. I have ignored one user, muted two users, and hushed three of them. Just because they are great features do not mean that I am using them all the time. I get hush/ignore/mute guilt. It's not an easy decision for me, I hate to feel like I am filtering out things without knowing what I am filtering. You really have to bother me before I use one of these features. Other users implement them with impunity, as is their right, and just because we use those features differently doesn't mean I think either way is better. I think it's all a matter of personality. I think thenewgreen and insom and lil and such people that I named in my post usually love new users. Yes, the influx is a challenge, but some people really love engaging new people. I'm not one of those. I'm one of those to stand in the shadows and bitch about it...but I'm also not going to hide them all. I'd rather see everything so that I can bitch than hide it. Eventually one day my patience may run out and I may echo kleinbl00's approach. But - on the other hand - kb follows global. I don't follow global. So in that my whole experience of this new surge of users is already way, way different from him. If I did follow global maybe I would use this feature. I think that the benefits Hubski offers of personalization mean that the people who feel they need to use this feature will. My feed is virtually unchanged right now. I'm actually scoping out global and #askhubski so I can see what the fuss is about. As a result, I'd never need this feature, but I'd probably see new users in things like comment threads. Just because something is good, does not mean it is good or useful to everyone, I guess. Well if it's really a good feature, then people will use it
And again here I do disagree. Hush, mute, and ignore are great features. I love that I have them. I have ignored one user, muted two users, and hushed three of them. Just because they are great features do not mean that I am using them all the time
Great point. It could be Hubski gets mentioned in buzzfeed (god forbid) and I turn it on for a day or two and then back off again for normal newbie traffic. It could be used as a tool and not a defaulted to "on" type thing.
Or, you have exactly one day to research torque wrenches, toddler beds and high chairs while also attempting to procure valve shims from a factory in Italy that's about to close for the summer so that your $16k superbike doesn't fry a cylinder head and the one break you took from doing this and balancing your Quickbooks erupts into two hours of infighting over the evilness of ignoring people and rather than saying "fuck this site I'm done with it" you'd like a simple function that restores its functionality to "un-fucked" for just a day or so. Please. Thanks.
It's also worth noting that if we implement it it's just going to be a toggle that hides those users posts from the global page. Users who comment, engage with the community, etc will still be followed right off the bat. And then, after X days, they will be back in the global feed. It just gives them a few days to settle in. I don't know if I'm 100% on board with actually taking the time to code and implement it but it's an interesting idea that has merit. If the X days was 2 days or something I think that would be more than enough time for people to settle in and make the experience better for the existing community. The influxes are really only bad for 24 hours or so. After that everything goes back to being peachy. I can't even believe some of the amazing users were the last reddit hit anymore. elizabeth. 8bit. They were all knew and quickly became super fucking amazing. I remember thinking, "wait you've only been here for 30 days!?"
Yep. I remember when flagamuffin and humanodon came in an influx. -Maybe not the same one, but still those fellas were once newbies. I remember the moment I thought flag was badass, it was when he told the story of his uncle in the Hubski podcast on silence. -So cool. But yeah, we all started off new. I'm excited to meet the cool people that stick around.
They all blend together... point is, you came from an influx from reddit... and you totally kick ass.
Well, I do think you're making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill with the way you just described that. But anyway. For some reason I was thinking ignore/mute/hush, but just ignore isn't nearly as big of a deal to me. I wouldn't use it though, I think it's better to see the "new from Reddit posts" and whatever else and try to engage in conversation with the new people and talk about Hubski and why certain things are misconceptions or bad ideas. Or why things are good ideas! Edit: On second thought, after seeing it described as more of a tool I'm indifferent to this. Carry on.
I don't blame people for being concerned. It wasn't immediately apparent how something like this would be enacted. What if it were the default? Then, it would surely be cause for alarm. But, it's funny that you mention the Hubski users that you do (including yourself) because when I crafted my initial response to kb, I thought about the implications first. I was reassured by the thought that the you all would most definitely not turn on the ignore for x day feature. And that is indeed comforting.
1) New slogan: Hubski: where we know each other 2) Getting notification errors (deadlinx). Tried to make a bugski post about it. Deadlink. Assume hubski cannot handle the heat it's currently taking. That's okay. Can wait. Specifically if you are curious whenever I try to dismiss a notification I get a deadlink, and when I tried to submit a post I got a deadlink, even on fresh pages (aka had navigated to page w/in last few minutes) mk
I just got online and I'm witnessing the site-wide fallout, I can't log in on my laptop atm and i can't access my own profile so it seems Hubski is taking a knee right now. Edit: Buckle up ladies.
We are aware of the dead links and are attempting to fix. Thanks pal. forwardslash, mk
To quote The Moon is a Harsh Mistress (Can you tell I have a Heinlein fixation?) Edit* holy formatting issues batman. 'Functional organization. How does one design an electric
motor? Would you attach a bathtub to it, simply because
one was available? Would a bouquet of flowers help? A
heap of rocks? No, you would use just those elements
necessary to its purpose and make it no larger than
needed--and you would incorporate safety factors.
Function controls design.'
So I took the night off, ignored all emails, and woke up to a massive hangover, 72 emails, and this mess. I've gotten 12 new followers so far. I blame you and tng who BOTH called me out for being AWESOME. Love/Hate you. :P
This isn't that different from Hacker News classic which removes submissions from new users (and/or users below a certain karma threshold/user signup date). I think a preference to ignore users for their first 7 days is reasonable.
Man, ya'll are harsh! I was thinking a couple of days, but a whole week...? Wow. Have you no heart forwardslash? I think a couple of days is long enough for someone to recognize that Hubski is it's own thing. Maybe 3 days. It should definitely be something you have to toggle and should not be defaulted to "on".
Dude. What's the post title? You probably wouldn't use it at all. I might decide I don't feel like listening to anyone under a year old. Give me a slider and it becomes yet another dimension for finding content. Start arguing about what the duration oughtta be and it becomes a milestone, a bone of contention, a probationary period, a sticking point. If it'd make you feel better, give me two sliders: allow me to ignore users NEWER than (x) and OLDER than (y). Behold. Suddenly I'm finding yet another way to navigate Hubski.
Some cool ideas, for sure. I'm not opposed to someone being able to customize their experience to that degree at all. The slider is a really interesting suggestion. I'm not a programmer so I don't know the logistics of it, but yeah, I'm digging the ideas. Thanks.
Yeah, 3 might be more reasonable. I think even the circlejerkers left before 3 days.
From what I understand about XDA it prevents new users from posting, while HN classic provides a feed (for those who know the url, it isn't linked anywhere) which doesn't have the submissions from new users in them. This is something that has been around for a long time at HN and very few people use it.
No problem, reading it back it was easy to take a way other than i intended. I do agree that hamstringing users by taking away basic functionality isn't desirable.
I brought up XDA because I know nothing much about what they do (had to rely on Google for romming my tablet) and wanted to join and participate in the low level conversations. I was hamstrung and frustrated, so I left. (Just an insight to my brief time with XDA)
A waiting period IS necessary actually. You need to lurk for a bit before just jumping in. It allows the new user time to pick up the 'flavor' of the place. It's the polite thing to do. kb is from a time before time, when there was no voting of posts, no moderation, just messageboards. This means he expects (As does most of hubski) a certain amount of etiquette from new users.
Here's the thing. It doesn't particularly scare ME because I'm relatively new to the site. I've only had to deal with 1, maybe 2 waves of 'reddit refugees.' Some of the veterans of the site have had to deal with DOZENS. The idea is that while yes, our current system is pretty good, we can always be improving, and especially improving the new user experience, and doing it in such a way that is mutually beneficial to the new user and the old guard. Am I making sense?
Well said. I feel that the structure of the site already does a good job of encouraging good discussion and content. I can understand the frustration of dealing with new users, but if we have any hope of this site building into a community beyond just the early and influential members, we need to think carefully about its policies and how to structure it. I definitely see kb's point, and I think that it's true that something should be done. It might be helpful to provide other filters, like only showing users who have received a circle'ing, or something like that. I'm just really hesitant to support anything that makes it harder for new users to be seen and heard.
We need a way to keep content interesting and stimulating without alienating the interesting newbies such as caelum (and myself.)
I agree with @_refugees_@ point that there are a lot of people that wouldn't use it. I would imagine that the people that will use it the most are the people that don't tend to interact with new users anyways. Those that tend to be the "welcoming" type on Hubski aren't going to be prone to use it. Therefore, it may have little effect on the newbie but a potentially large effect on the seasoned user that wishes to avoid the newbie onslaughts.