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comment by thenewgreen
thenewgreen  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: These moments totally happened at the GOP primary debate

Nah, you answer. Why isn’t he? What specific policies preclude him from being a democrat?

kleinbl00  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Wi-Fi causes cancer and "leaky brain," Kennedy told podcaster Joe Rogan last month. Antidepressants are to blame for school shootings, he mused during an appearance with Twitter CEO Elon Musk. Chemicals in the water supply could turn children transgender, he told right-wing Canadian psychologist and podcaster Jordan Peterson, echoing a false assertion made by serial fabulist Alex Jones. AIDS may not be caused by HIV, he has suggested multiple times.

    There's no credible evidence for any of these assertions or for Kennedy's longest-running false claims: that vaccines cause autism and are more harmful than the diseases they're designed to protect against.

    Yet Kennedy is building a campaign for the highest office around these conspiracy theories and the idea that fact-checking or criticizing them amounts to censorship. His throughline is the bedrock conspiratorial premise that "they" (the government, pharmaceutical companies, the media) are lying to you — but that he is telling the truth.

RFK Jr. is building a presidential campaign around conspiracy theories

Republicans have painted up the Democratic Party as the party of "big government" since before the New Deal. Huey Long, Democrat, was effectively a socialist. Eisenhower was the most leftist Republican to hold office - he effectively rebuilt Europe as semi-socialist - and his principle argument was against the 'military industrial complex.'

Kennedy can't officially run as a Democrat without party endorsement and the Democratic Party is, barring catastrophe, endorsing Biden. That said, RFK's core plank has been "the government is lying to you" since 2005. Lyndon LaRouche was ostensibly a Democrat as well but no one, in the history of his political career, considered him a serious candidate for office.

The difference between Lyndon LaRouche and RFK Jr. is the 'boomers still worship his parents for some reason.

The Kennedys were fucking awful politicians and fucking awful people. The hagiography around them is one of the most embarrassing things about the Democratic Party - Joe Kennedy bought the 1960 election for his son, JFK slow walked the Civil Rights Act so that he'd never have to pass it, Bobby was an incompetent and unqualified attorney general, their state department launched the Vietnam War by mistake, they fomented the Cuban Missile Crisis out of sheer lethargy and their heirs are mostly known for rape and murder.

Even then? if there was a single elected office on this page he might be taken more seriously. People whinged about Obama's lack of political experience yet at least that dude had spent two years as a Senator. RFK Jr. has never so much as run for dog catcher. And that, above all else, "precludes him from being a democrat." The DNC are nothing if not thorough plodders and if there had ever been any serious intent to run RFK Jr for office they would have done it in the '80s.

Think about that. the '80s Democratic Party. Choosing not to groom a Kennedy.

spencerflem  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  
uhsguy  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Guys a total nut job anyone running against trump and Biden kind of has to be. Your better candidates are sitting this one out. Or maybe or system can’t produce function candidates any more. I hope that’s not the case but I’m worried it might be. It’s sad that I’d take almost any of the recent previous wash outs over the 2 we will likely have to choose from. I dare say even Hillary.

spencerflem  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

i still don't really get what everyone's problem with Hillary was. like, she's an establishment hack and not very progressive and not at all exciting, which is exactly the same as Biden

I don't know either. Not really anyone I'm excited about for the presidential race. I feel like if you've gotta be low-energy, Biden hasn't been awful. I'm still mad about all the new oil pipelines, but he's at least made a halfhearted attempt at some good stuff when it doesnt get blocked by congress and the courts. Not sure what else he really can do tbh

Eeeeh, everythings awful bleh

Screw Kennedy Jr

kleinbl00  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Speaking as someone who voted for Clinton? Clinton is the Nixon of the left. She's eminently qualified. She's well-connected. But she's never cultivated trustworthiness or an open appeal to her enemies.

Hilary Clinton has never had much use for people who disagree with her, and she's never felt much need to explain herself to people who don't already get it. Her politics and mine mostly align (mostly) but I'd read the fine print on anything she did because she's a fine print kinda girl.

I think Hilary Clinton is a gifted political operative, but gifted political operatives aren't necessarily electable. They can't be much of the time. Consider how much the Left hates Kissinger, and then consider just how big of a hand-shaped welt Kissinger has left on the ass of history - that dude knew he could accomplish more by not being accountable to voters so he never ran for any elected office.

Hilary won a Senate seat so obviously she's no Kissinger. But I think she's got a little too much Nixon for this political era.

The thing about Biden is he inherited a tabula rasa federal government; the Trump administration cleaned house so thoroughly, on purpose and by accident, that the quiet coersion of conventional government has been borderline revolutionary behind the scenes. My perspective is that Biden is exactly the distraction the Republicans need to keep them from drawing attention to the massive economic and judicial reforms the Democrats are sneaking in during the dead of night.

Government should be boring. Biden is boring. I'm ready to be bored, global warming notwithstanding.

uhsguy  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don’t think she would really be any different than Biden. She was just so smug and entitled, that made her so hatable as a person. Watching her fall was almost as pleasant as watching Elon lose 40 billion on twitter, but of course there is a cost and everyone suffered in the end.

am_Unition  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Sure but omg, describing Trump as "not smug" is hilarious.

You are right about some combination of the media and political system failing the country, that much is clear.

uhsguy  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

He’s just as smug. I’m sure a lot of people love watching him fall too. I think he’s enjoying the chaos he’s causing and I don’t find it as enjoyable. Relegating him you irrelevance would have been the best thing.

am_Unition  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

We don't have a media environment capable of relegating Trump into irrelevance.

I do take some pleasure in his prosecutions, while also acknowledging that it could very well propel him into the presidency once again.

Not that it really matters. Trumpism is the GOP, now. We're gonna invade Mexico, eradicate transexualism, and do whatever Putin wants. I mean... this is literally an anti-American platform.

And I'm with spencerflem, yeah I'm voting for Biden b/c pragmatism, and it'll be with a very, VERY slight amount of enthusiasm, mostly based in the fact that I'm staving off fascism for one more general election cycle.

The GOP needs to reinvent itself. It won't.

am_Unition  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Because he's funded by Steve Bannon?

Because he's a non-sensical anti-vaxxer?

You can go read Forbes. And btw, I don't exactly adore Forbes.

Where are you getting your information sources these days?

PS - Kennedy is the Jill Stein (2016) spoiler candidate of 2024.

edit: or?

thenewgreen  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Funded by Bannon? I read the linked drivel, never saw that. Where do I get my info? Straight from the source. I do this with all of the front runners. I watch town halls, interviews, listen to podcasts. Instead of getting info from partisan sources, I make my own determinations. I’ve watched interviews and listened to podcasts with Vivek, Desantis, Kennedy, Williamson etc. The only candidate I haven’t heard from is Biden. He no longer gives long form interviews or town halls or even press conferences. Hopefully that will change.

My kids asked someone who RFK Jr. Was because I have a water bottle with his name in it. They told my kids that he was a racist. That their father supported a racist. Why? Because at a dinner he referenced a peer reviewed paper that showed certain ethnicities had more resistance to Covid-19, including Ashkenazi Jews. The porpoganda machine went to work, saying he was racist against Jews. Instead of blindly believing that, I watched the video. It wasn’t even near racism. But through the media it filtered its way down to my kids.

Pawns. I refuse to be one. Media is all agenda. It’s a tool (one I’ve used) that elites use to push agendas. There is no investigative journalism left out there (very little) Certainly not at TNR.

Quatrarius  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

and that reference was

"At a dinner event in July 2023, Kennedy said "there is an argument that (COVID-19) is ethnically targeted", adding "COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and Black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese ... we don't know whether it’s deliberately targeted or not.""

he said that it could be deliberately targeted to avoid jews and chinese. are you serious? you're so committed to being openminded that your brain is gonna fall out. be less concerned with somebody telling your kids you're racist and more concerned with not blindly supporting jackasses because they confirm your priors

thenewgreen  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
thenewgreen  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The actual video is less than 2 minutes long. No need to quote grab. Watch in context.

He pretty clearly says that he doesn’t know if it’s deliberate. I’d be shocked if nation states weren't developing targeted bioweapons.

His reply and the paper he is referencing here:


Quatrarius  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

if it was deliberate, did the jews make it or the chinese? in your opinion. and how did the sino-hebraic alliance begin?

spencerflem  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

srsly -

the context is incredibly obvious to everyone. You don't bring up that in theory a disease could be made that did that, without implying that Covid-19 was. It would be entirely irrelevant to mention otherwise.

And ofc it's the Jews again. Can some other ethnicity be the target of whackjob conspiracy theories. The Dutch have had it too good too long

kleinbl00  ·  33 days ago  ·  link  ·  

My gut reaction is to say "with Eva Saxl" not because I think this line of questioning should be humored, but because Eva Saxl is the best example of sino-hebraic badassery I can think of.

kleinbl00  ·  33 days ago  ·  link  ·  

"The Chinese are spending hundreds of millions of dollars developing ethnic bioweapons and WE are developing ethnic bioweapons that's what all those labs in Ukraine are about, they're collecting Russian DNA, they're collecting Chinese DNA so that we can target whole people by race."


"there is an argument that COVID-19 is ethnically targeted" is bad enough what he's got there is full-blown precious bodily fluids nonsense.

See here's the thing. You're surrounded by smart people. You're an officer at a biomedical startup FFS. You're married to a doctor. You have, at arm's reach, a gobsmacking amount of medical expertise. Instead you are championing a guy parroting Putin's talking points.

    He pretty clearly says that he doesn’t know if it’s deliberate.

No he pretty clearly exaggerates a bunch of nonsense that not even RT was willing to fully commit to.

    I’d be shocked if nation states weren't developing targeted bioweapons.

'k dude you know what a "targeted" disease is? SIckle-cell anemia. 93% of patients who suffer from sickle-cell disease are African American. Why? Sickle-cell trait is prophylactic against malaria. And yet. 7 percent of patients with sickle-cell disease are not African-American. bioweapons are tactically (and, frankly, strategically) useless to begin with; an "ethnic bioweapon" that affects 7% of people who aren't your targeted ethnicity is Hugo Drax nonsense.

Know who COVID targets? Poor people. And not very accurately, I might add. First hiccup in my life from COVID (other than catching it) was a movie I was doing post on got pushed because one of the millionaire producers up and died within 3 days of symptoms.

You're smarter than this.

thenewgreen  ·  33 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It’s odd to me that suggesting nations are creating bio-weapons is controversial. Not exactly new terrain

This entire thread started with me wishing we had debates on the dem side. Reasonable desire. I’d love to see RFK Jr, Newsom and others debate Biden. If he’s not up to the task, we as a nation should be made aware. I know the canned reply is that no sitting President gets primaried. I don’t think I’d feel this need if we had a President that was ever in front of the press.

I am not a democrat, never have been even though it’s the only party I’ve ever voted for. I feel no affiliation or loyalty to the DNC. I do feel loyalty to ideals. Ideals that have been championed by the left for decades: Freedom of speech, right to privacy, that we need to be good stewards of our planet, I believe in strong and independent media, I believe money should be kept out of politics. I believe the revolving door between policy makers and corporate lobbyists needs to close.

No one candidate embodies all of these things. I’ve donated money to several politicians and even Andrew Yangs forward party and I’ve done so based on their policy stances not on the party they belong to.

I think there’s a lot of, “we have to support Biden cause if not, then trump. Fuck that. I’m tired of the DNC not listening to or trusting the electorate. Any former Bernie supporters will know what I mean.

A large part of my donating to Kennedy is to try and force the hand of the dnc to allow debates. I know the canned response is, “that’s exactly what the right wants.” Well, then I’m in alignment.

I truly believe that if trump is the candidate he will win against Biden but would lose handedly against almost any other candidate.

I’m tired. I don’t much enjoy Hubski these days. Really miss the old days. It’s a bummer. I wish you and the family well. Gonna peace out for a while.


kleinbl00  ·  33 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Let's take a step back:

The only criticism I leveled above is the notion that RFK's statements, in that clip you linked, are anything other than pseudoscientific dezinformatsiya straight from the Kremlin. I leveled this criticism on the idea that ethnically-targeted bio-weapons are nonsense. And I say this personally knowing people whose entire job it was to evaluate hostile foreign bio-weapons for USAMRIID.

All the rest of your tag cloud here is about other stuff. It is answers to questions I didn't raise. it is attitudes about subjects I haven't brought up.

I will say this: it is my measured and informed opinion that RFK Jr is the very definition of a useful idiot.. And I will say this: RFK Jr. does not share your ideals. The Kennedys are a transactional family, none more transactional than RFK Jr. He spent what, 15 years as in environmental law? Why isn't he running on the environment? Think about it for a minute. How hard would GenZ lean into a candidate who said "I am a single-issue candidate and my issue is climate change"? But that's not where he's getting his attention from. Because it's not the attention he wants.

Biden will absolutely debate. He will debate any opponents, Republican or otherwise, under the terms of debate agreed upon by the opposing parties. You know that, I don't need to remind you. It's 2023, man. We're a long, long road from there. And you're giving to RFK Jr. to, I dunno, somehow alter history? Show me the debates here.

Biden has not done a lot of press conferences. He's also been dealing with States of the Union where this is the standard level of decorum:

All that to say, "I don't like biden because he doesn't do a lot of press conferences" is telegraphing pretty loud that you don't like Biden for _________________________ (whatever reason is convenient in the moment). I'm not going to tell you to like Biden.

But I am going to tell you that you're too clever to take on RFK Jr's baggage just because you think Biden is old.

spencerflem  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

And what if? the wildfires were caused by Jewish Space Lasers

am_Unition  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You've got a water bottle with a man's name on it who told Joe Rogan, "straight from the source", that WiFi can open the blood-brain barrier and cause cancer.

I mean do I really feel like I need to spend more time talking to you?


b_b  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I have no love lost for Kennedy, but he's funded by Bannon in the same way all those MAGA idiots were funded by the DNC in the last election. It's pretty common practice these days for both parties to run interference in the primary cycle to try to get the worst candidate on the ballot or at least cause some chaos and wasted funds.

am_Unition  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's semi-fair, the key differences being: 1) Kennedy's positions aren't remotely aligned with the democratic party vs. the ultra MAGA chuds being GOP-aligned candidates, just extreme versions, and 2) The 3rd party presidential candidates draw more democratic votes than those from the GOP.

Here, I'm just (very over agressively) calling someone out for falling for it. I'm sorry, this is like, super obvious to me what's going on. RFK Jr. is a spoiler candidate promoted by fascists.

Is Biden a gifted orator? At this stage of his life, nah. And his policies draw mixed reviews from me. But not being able to see through RFK is fucking weird, I'm sorry. Techbro shit.

edit: many of Kennedy's stated policies are relatively democratic, but I had no idea, since he never talks about them

thenewgreen  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You never answered my question Re his policies that don’t align with the Democratic Party. He’s pro vaccine safety. Re the blood brain barrier, perhaps it’s not that crazy. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19345073/

Quatrarius  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

he thinks that vaccines cause autism, brother!

pro vaccine safety is a clear dogwhistle. you don't need to be pro safety on something that is near-universally safe. if you describe yourself as "pro armchair safety", that means that somebody's putting spikes on the chairs.

the tactic of hiding behind "I'm just asking questions, further research is needed into the issue" is cowardly and is made without evidence on the actual position being taken. there is no evidence that vaccines cause or are linked to autism, but RFK JR has been saying it for decades. now he's repeating the canard that endocrine disruptors in the water are causing feminization and transgender-ization. there's no evidence that this is the case. why is he suggesting that "research should be done?" to seed the ground for calling transness artificial, man-made, and a medical illness.

if i come out on stage and suggest that being molested as a child actually has hidden health benefits and that further research should be done, i don't get to say that I'm just asking questions. it would be obvious that i am a pedophile trying to drum up support. but it's easy to see that pedophilia is wrong, and apparently much harder to see that when it's about autists and trannies

thenewgreen  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

This conversation started with someone asking why I thought Kennedy is a dem. I see no reason to think he isn’t based on his policy proposals. Anti war, anti surveillance state, pro free speach etc.

Re vaccination, he’s admitted to being fully vaccinated and having vaccinated his children. From one of his town halls:

    I’ve never been anti-vaccine, and I’ve said that hundreds and hundreds of times but it doesn’t matter,” Kennedy told NewsNation host Elizabeth Vargas in a town hall Wednesday. “Because that is a way of silencing me. Using a pejorative to describe me is a way of silencing me or marginalizing me.”

    He continued: “We have a corrupt federal agency. It’s lying to the AMA, to you, to all of those agencies and all of the doctors. They believe them. Those agencies are controlled by pharma. That is the problem and that’s what I’m trying to end as president.”

He’s not wrong Re the FDA/Pharma revolving door.

Quatrarius  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

if he's fully vaccinated and so are his kids, and he also believes vaccines are unsafe and cause autism, etc, doesn't that make him both a hypocrite and an idiot?

using a pejorative to describe somebody? it's just what he continually and publically espouses. it's not a pejorative, it's a descriptor. if you think it makes you marginalized to have what you say be described, then that should tell you something about what you're saying

spencerflem  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Because every other Democrat thinks that parroting insane conspiracy theories is disqualifying.

And asking honestly, even if Kennedy's other policies were standard Democrat fare, what about him is better than Biden ?? How is this less baggage ??

am_Unition  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

A great example of conspiracy theories being disqualifying for dems is how nobody took Marianne Williamson seriously once all the "healing crystals" stuff hit the fan. And afaik, that was the only conspiracy-adjacent thing she espoused.

For the republican party, believing in conspiracy is a requirement. The crazier, the better. I had to look up RFK's policies, because he never talks about them. They're relatively democrat-centrist, from what I can find. Some even sound progressive. But all he talks about are conspiracies. THAT is republican. And so is being "anti-war" while also advocating to bomb and/or invade Mexico. I'd love to hear RFK Jr. be asked that question.

I can add legit source links to this thread all day. We can't just watch the candidates lie to us in debates or interviews and trust everyone on the basis of how charismatic they are.

kleinbl00  ·  34 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I interviewed Henry Lai for an hour once. I needed information for a screenplay on how, exactly, one would communicate with the brain via non-invasive methods. He was, at the time, the guy to talk to about cell phone radiation. Might still be, I dunno; it was 20-odd years ago.

And 20-odd years ago, it was an uncontested fact that radiation had an impact on the brain. What kind of impact? Inconclusive. Dude brought up a dozen studies for me, some saying it made you stupider, some saying it made you smarter. Some saying it caused headaches, some saying it cured them. Lai's spitball take was that heating up a muscle increases blood flow, heating up the brain increases blood flow, increased blood flow is a catalyst, not a reactant.

Here's some science.

Cell phone radiation is advertised as SAR - Specific Absorption Rate. That's a "how bright is your lightbulb" measurement; the amount of light/heat that falls on your body is a function of how far away you are. In the US, a cell phone must put out no more power than 1.6W/kg - as in, holding the phone up to your head, the whole of your brain, all 1300g of it, can absorb no more than 2W.

On the other hand, your wifi router puts out about 100mW. It, of course, is subject to spherical decay and the inverse square law. Most emission is given in terms of 1w/1m and then given in dB; any given conventional loudspeaker will lose 6dB per doubling of distance. So a 120dB Marshall stack from 3 feet away? is 114dB at 6 feet, 108dB at 12 feet, etc. 3dB is a doubling of power; a 6dB loss reflects a power level 25% as strong. Of your 500W Marshall stack, 125W is there at 6 feet, 31W is there at 12 feet, 8W is there at 24 feet, etc.

I am currently six feet from a Unifi hot-spot. It's prosumer/B2B shit; it puts out 200mW. Sitting here typing I am receiving 0.05 watts off it. Should my phone ring? And I hold it up to my head? I will be receiving about 1.5W.

This is just algebra. It doesn't require much in the way of specialist knowledge; a little googling goes a long way. Now, you tell me - does RFK have a cell phone?