Without going into to much detail, partially because I don't want to divulge too much information, but mostly because I'm extremely ashamed to admit this, I have found myself caught up in the gossip at work, have been for a while now, and have been struggling to escape it.
To make a long story short, my place of work is falling apart, lacking leadership and clear direction, ambiguity about job security, and expectations about the future. As a result, there is a lot of gossip and rumors, from everything from individuals and their alleged work ethic or lack there of, to changes in company direction and expectations, to who knows what. It is having a negative impact on people's emotions, their drive to work, and most importantly, the reputations of individuals. Our jobs have already gotten balls hard with all the changes in the company and this collective behavior is just making things worse.
I'm ashamed to admit I've been a part of this. I'm also ashamed to admit that I don't know how to stop. I'm not ashamed to admit though, that I want to stop and need advice. So if you guys have any advice or insight or experience, please share it.
1) I study conflict resolution with a focus on organizational conflict 2) I gossip like a motherfucker Personally, I take these things to be indicators and try to take a qualitative research tack. What nodes keep popping up? If everyone says Carol is a bitch, what's up with that? As for shame, what's going on there? Maybe digging into those feelings through something like writing out your thoughts (by which I mean, writing without self-judgement in an effort to map feelings, tensions, and potential inciting incidents) might be helpful. I don't know your situation, particularly as some of the information is apparently sensitive, but I am curious about the role of leadership within your organization. What kind of leadership exists? Are there underlying sources that result in gossip? Can you talk to anyone in the leadership about this? What avenues exist for you to try to address this issue of morale? Often, with top-down leadership, there is a great deal of power distance, resulting in a lack of employee buy-in, inclusion, and belonging. In organizations where power-distance is minimized and employees tend to have a lot of trust from their leadership, we see a lot of decision-making ability and thus, empowerment. When people have this ability, creating employee/"follower"-based solutions is often an option, which tends to improve morale. In my view, gossip tends to occur when people don't have outlets that are sanctioned as legitimate for grievance within organizations. Often, this results in employee turnover, a lack of trust, and overall, greater expenditures in training and ineffectual interventions, such as diversity and inclusion programs rooted in compliance to Title VII and affirmative action, as opposed to employee empowerment. We also see litigation more often in these types of environment. In short, avoidance of gossip or conflict tends to have adverse effects. However, engaging in conversations to address morale can also have adverse effects for employees as organizations are inherently conservative and interested in avoiding litigation and so may be prone to retaliation or attempting to sweep things under the rug. Of course, my advice would be to seek the help of a professional; a facilitator, a mediator, or someone who can help with conflict, but then, I have an interest in promoting the industry I'm hoping to be employed in. The one thing I can tell you, is that there is no need to be ashamed for feeling like things can be better, or for regretting a contribution to negative dynamics. It sounds like you have a clear idea of what the problems could be and that there might be a real need to address them. Who can be engaged to work this out?
Thank you so much for the input and sorry for the late response. I fell asleep pretty much right after posting this. The questions about leadership and avenue kind of illustrate a core problem we're having. If we were to break down authority into levels, I'd be level one, at the bottom. Right now, the person at level two is in charge. The positions for level three and four are currently unfilled and are the core levels for direction, execution, management, etc. The person in level five, the highest person I ever interact with in the company (and even then only briefly because they are so above my pay grade there's not much point in interactions between us), is there, but basically a ghost. I literally haven't seen them in months as we've not had a visit from them, which is not normal but also not abnormal as they have a lot of responsibilities above what we do. Whether or not this is the reality of the situation, I personally feel like there are so many gaps in the company at this point, and the corporate environment is in such a way, that there is no one with the authority, knowledge, or resources to address this. My personal goal, if I'm being completely honest, is that I'm trying to get a different job and get out with my ass intact and the gossip is putting an additional stressor on me.
Wanna know one of the most interesting books I've read in the past five years? Know why? It explains gossip. It explains why we care about people we don't know. It explains why Entertainment Tonight exists. And it explains why you shouldn't feel ashamed about gossiping at work. Gossip is cultural currency. We use it to express allegiance and affinity. Our tribe is who we gossip about, and if we are talking to someone not within our tribe, gossip about someone more important than either of our tribes gives us a cultural thread to pull ourselves together with. When Joe and Jane talk behind Jerry's back, Joe and Jane are forming an ingroup. Jerry may or may not be a part of that group - If Joe is letting Jane know Jerry has a crush on Janet, and Jane interacts with Janet, Joe is giving Jane a piece of cultural currency she can use in her relationship with Janet. Within small groups (like your workgroup), gossip is the fundamental tie that binds you all together. It's the free-form voluntary information that connects everyone. Within large groups (like, say "Ohio"), gossip is the coin of exchange between tribes. You may not know Biff from Centerville but if both of you have a negative opinion about Michigan you're buds. So don't sweat the gossip. Sweat slander, which is gossip that isn't true. The negative impact on emotions and drive is your ingroup effectively shunning one or more people from the tribe. This is management's problem, not yours (I'm assuming they're management). Management needs to make sure that the ingroup includes everyone in the organization. And if y'all are shunning someone who isn't management, someone needs to sack up and get management on the page. Don't fear gossip. Don't denigrate it. We need it. It's what makes us social, and being social is what makes us human.
I’m inclined to be open to this line of thinking. I wonder if you’ve run into Bourdieu and his theory of social capital. I’m tending toward the idea that maybe one explanation of current nation-wide social dynamics could be that with neoliberalism there is hyperfinancialization, or a focus on economic exchange over social exchange, due to the decentralization of relationships in production chains that bleeds over into communities. Basically, people have underdeveloped social skills leading to a focus on politeness over depth of exchange, manifesting in White Fragility/SJW-type intolerance of anything but PC orthodoxy. I know that contains a bunch of logical leaps, and sketchy ideas, but anyway, social capital makes me wonder if our frames of different types of exchange in American society are linked in ways that aren’t so obvious.
This stuff is squarely not my wheelhouse but the minute you talk "internet" and "socialization" you get a whole big bunch of people saying all sortsa stuff. I made it halfway through Bowling Alone before recognizing that an 18-year-old book that hasn't so much as been revised to address, oh, I dunno, September 11 or Facebook might not be fully applicable to our modern situation. The constellation of reading I have done leads me to support the following: - Income inequality is socially striating and income inequality is increasing. The rate of increase is increasing. - In-person community involvement is plummeting. - Social engagement now happens across channels that we have no basis of understanding for. There is nothing in our social makeup that prepares us for parsing MMS for subtext. The signaling qualities of Snapchat are not homogenized. If you gave a chicken peacock feathers it would not know how to dance with them and we've whipsawed from email to IM to text to Facebook to Snapchat in the amount of time it's taken me to wear out a pair of boots. We're spiders in space these days. I mean, we can get the job done? But it ain't the way our parents did it and you give up on nuance when your whole environment has shifted. I also know that when you're alone in your car everyone else is an asscamel but when you're sharing an elevator you don't make eye contact and the whole western world right now? They're alone in their car with a keyboard and an opinion.
"Spiders in space". I dig that It really captures my feelings on what to do with this degree at the moment, but I guess that's something that happens when finishing a degree. Actually, I think that's a problem endemic to linking the literatures of various disciplines. Anyway, while it is a bit exciting that there's so many new social dynamics emerging, the question of how to study these things and then what to do about/with them is a bit daunting too.
Yeah. That's kind of the problem we're finding ourselves in. I wouldn't mind if we talked shit about the company or the people who run it, though I'd still feel guilty about that. I'm concerned because we're starting to voice our frustrations about each other, behind each other's backs, instead of finding ways to address issues. That's both not healthy and not fair, because in all honesty we're all doing our best and circumstances being what they are I'm surprised we're doing as good. The fact that everyone still shows up for work every day, and at least tries to do their job, speaks a lot to everyone's maturity and work ethic. The gossip though is starting to create some rifts and resentment and as I was saying to humanodon, I don't think there's anyone that can come in and fix it and the way things are right now, I honestly think they'd actually make things worse. This is hard to talk about and honestly, I'm nervous even making this thread and having this conversation on Hubski, even though this is a pseudonymous website. Like, what if by some weird way my current or a future employer sees this, links it to me, and ask why I'm discussing this shit? A) Fuck those guys for being snoopy bitches though and B) this feels like a pretty big issue that it warrants discussing because I can pretty much guarantee I'm not the first and won't be the last person to be facing this scenario in this countriy's current job environment.
You have an outsized sense of responsibility to your employer. Trust me - they give no fucks about you. That the environment has turned toxic is evidence that they give no fucks about anyone else, either. You have a big heart. If you feel uncomfortable saying mean stuff about coworkers, try to come up with something nice to say about coworkers. I had a supervisor who was somewhere on the autism spectrum. During times of stress he would verbally berate me; send me long emails about how much I suck, and make me do menial crap for no good reason. But I knew he was going to be my supervisor for the foreseeable future and I knew he was good at other parts of his job. Most importantly, he was the target of incessant griping by about five other people. They kept thinking they could gang up on him and get him fired. I knew (knew) that what they'd do is blow up the department, get a bunch of people fired, and cause everyone to lose their jobs. So I started sharing my perspective. I started pointing out that he was an "outdoor dog" - he was really good at some stuff, but he'd make the couch cushions muddy. I pointed out that he was doing stuff none of us wanted to do and that if we were gonna blow shit up, someone else would have to be that guy. Everyone you're griping about? They do something right and they have reasons for doing other things wrong. Find the humanity. Find the excuses. And make them. You're still gossiping, yeah, but you're no longer doing it solely to cut someone down.
Yeah. I'm gonna try real hard to be more positive, about everything, because I think if I'm being honest (and this doesn't excuse my behavior) my participating in gossip is due to feeling and trying to release myself from stress. I think it's pretty easy to say that the more frustrated I'm feeling at any particular moment, the easier it is to let my guard down.
I excuse your behavior. Somebody should. Look - you grunts are a team. You can either fractionate or coagulate. Either way it's a "team building exercise" it's just a matter of who's on the team. I'm willing to bet that you find saying positive stuff about coworkers when others are being negative gives you the energy you need to get through your day.
Eh. While I agree on major aspects of what klein has to say, it disregards gossip as occurring in an environment in which negativity is seen as "unprofessional" and you can't necessarily trust everyone you work with (who isn't management) simply because you work with them. It's unwise, for instance, to gossip about a person to someone who is that person's friend - whether or not your observations are true, you run the risk of upsetting various precarious apple-carts of social interaction layers in such and similar cases. For the most part, I agree we're social creatures and talking about each other is a major component of interacting, of caring, and of life. I agree gossip is not inherently bad; we should embrace that we do it, and maybe not sweat over it so much (on the day-to-day). However in rd's post he indicates discomfort. With the level of gossip, with the tone of gossip, with the negative impacts of the gossip in his workplace. To me that says this has gone beyond what klein is talking about and the "talking about humans to bond with other humans cuz we're human and we care about humans" has evolved into something a little less group-psychology-garden-variety-friendly. Something that probably feels good in the moment, but maybe afterwards, maybe leaves one feeling bad. Something that's not friendly conversational heads' up about who's having a bad day or who messed up majorly on one project once...something that is turning into trenchant negativity which no one can or will dig out of. Once you get a solid negative atmosphere going in a work group, it is haaaaaaaaard to get out of it. Like shovelling up through the pile of shit twice before you breathe fresh air hard. For the record, and illustratively: my anti-gossip rep at work stems from an incident where one team member(PC, for Problem Child) was telling other members of the team a certain worker's(MT) year-end rating. PC was telling the truth about the rating...however the rating was unfavorable. Like, really unfavorable. Like, "PC had to have heard this from MT's lips and now is going around passing the information out like popcorn and I know for a fact MT wouldn't want that to happen," sort of 'unfavorable.' Like "this has crossed the line from gossiping, to telling details which should be kept private when/if/until the person who had to live that experience is ready to talk about it." There are degrees of tact and appropriateness even when it comes to healthy, relationship-building gossip such as klein addresses above.
Mmm... So, I guess the next question is what defines 'positive' gossip where the end result is still speaking of others - if at all. There are degrees of tact and appropriateness even when it comes to healthy, relationship-building gossip such as klein addresses above.
Here's the problem: When you put your foot down and say "I won't engage in this immoral claptrap" you've automatically added yourself to the outgroup. Unless you are in a position of leadership, or have enough charisma to assume the mantle of leadership, or are a compelling enough orator that you can make everyone cease and desist in the behavior without resenting you in such a way that they never again want to gossip, all you've done is made yourself the enemy. Period. Full stop. The gossip shall continue. But now it's about you. Unhealthy work environments? I haz them. I had a boss single me out for drug testing because they realized too late that I wasn't a born-again Christian like everyone else they hired. I worked at a place where one of my coworkers had to go to HR because he was sick of being shot in the face with airsoft pistols (it didn't change anything). Same job? I was the only person that hadn't seen Melissa's tits multiple times because when we went to trade shows I walked the floor like a citizen, gathered information like a citizen, and then went back to my hotel to rest; I didn't spend all day at bars and strip clubs. And when it came time for layoffs, the guy who hadn't seen Melissa's tits was the first to go, even though it cost the company $20m in billable clients. You can't fight the tide. If you aren't management, stop. You're participating in a work environment, not policing it and when you try, you simply reveal yourself as a narc.
Similar experience happened with my cadre in HS. They burned out faster than I had, allowing underclassmen to take up their would-be positions. Sucked since we were the core crew that got shit done, but I grew more closer to my staff that picked up where they left off. I kept noticably quiet around cadre as they ragged on the new staff, and eventually we fell away. Shortly after I got some cute pranks pulled on me until graduation with some palpable snark from the latter group about it. Curios on what your take away from the 'Melissa' layoff was in terms of how did that affect your decisions in future jobs/interacting with co-workers.When you put your foot down and say "I won't engage in this immoral claptrap" you've automatically added yourself to the outgroup.
That job was such a fucking catastrophe. It was one of those jobs where you could get the 25-sheet design done three months in advance and you'd still get in trouble because the project manager ended up air-freighting 5 racks to Fargo, ND. Know what it costs to put 5 full-size APW racks in a plane and get them to Fargo overnight? Me, neither. But I know it's more than the profit margin. They laid me off and lost $20m worth of business which was pretty rad. It was my last "job" prior to running off and joining the circus (working in Hollywood is what all the people who were going to join the circus but realized they needed to eat did). I have not had steady employment since 2007, but I've also had no problems making ends meet since 2007. And, you know, you casually discover that your supervisor mixed Decade of Aggression while sending him stems for Black Hole Sun because, well, it's never come up before. So I can't really say. I basically never worked a jobby-job again, which kinda fucks up the object lesson I guess.
Meh, still a nice story to compliment the prior statements, and always get a kick out of the way you write. Glad things are working out since then, guessing since things are more project based in Hollywood, it's one of those 'wait [insert mid-term length of time] and you'll have a new boss/co-worker' deals anyway.
Ask those who gossip to you if they are willing to get support in confronting the subject of the gossip. Gossip is an (unproductive) outlet to a disconnect between two people. Pragmatically, it solves nothing, but it damn sure makes you feel bonded to whoever you're gossiping with... (hello stuff like gossip theory ) On the flipside, my general mantra/rule of thumb is "Whoever gossips to you, gossips about you." Take that whatever way you will. If you're attracting people to gossip with, then what does that say about your relationship with them and with your own self? And work from there.
The only person who gossips with me at work is the administrator who is 20 years older than me, but fantasizes about me fucking her. It's gross and annoying, but she controls the budget. Nobody else finds me approachable enough to talk to, so it's basically a win-win.
I've been in trouble in the past because I treat my coworkers as the gatekeepers of my mortgage, not as best buds. I don't hang out with coworkers off the clock, not because I don't like them (I love the people I work with) but because work is work. This makes me the old fart at work but I'm there to make money to pay the bills.
Stopping is deceptively easy to do, and extremely difficult at the same time. Shut your mouth, and don't respond. Gossips think they are being valuable and helpful by sharing information. They are actually making themselves look small and petty and untrustworthy to everyone within earshot. So when someone says something shitty/wrong/gossipy, don't respond. Just don't. Dig into the work that is in front of you on the screen, and don't respond. Then, don't open your mouth. Don't spread gossip. Don't speak about anything except work. When conversations turn gossipy, turn back to your work. Gossip lives on echoes. It wants to hear itself repeated back, and emphasized. If you fail to feed it, it goes away. And suddenly you look like the only reliable/trustworthy person in the office, because you don't engage in the gossip. People also feel the social pressure to get back to work, when someone else is working diligently and not participating in the gossip. So simply by not responding, you can make it a healthier work environment for everyone. (I've been living this, working as the only guy in a group of 9 young women.)
btw a number of the people who find this thread interesting might also find this book interesting. i started reading it (twice actually) - haven't finished it - but it's in the stack. it's called "thanks for the feedback" and some like, harvard psychologists wrote it or something. no really it's pretty interesting, and it talks about how to hear negative (or just surprising) things about oneself without feeling personally threatened. it also talks a little about how to give feedback - and what is gossip if not feedback? - anyway, whatever, here it is on amazon
eh Should I say, "gossiping is feedback" then? Both who you gossip to and what pieces of gossip you are with that person do provide feedback on that relationship Gossip that gets back to the person it's about is feedback about how that person is being perceived around the office. shrug - literally, gossip isn't feedback and shouldn't be taken expressly as that - however, it still provides feedback. Feedback can be positive or negative; it can be "keep doing this" as much as "stop doing this."Gossip is cultural currency. We use it to express allegiance and affinity.
No. They do not. They absolutely do not. Gossip is a gambit. It's a dance step. It's a feint. It's a proffered rose to see what can be elicited. It is part of a continuing negotiation designed to enhance a relationship. Feedback is a direct attempt to change someone. BUT IT'S NOT YOUR FEEDBACK. If Joe tells Jane something salacious about Jill, and Jane tells Jill, JANE IS STARTING SHIT. If Joe wanted Jill to know, he'd tell Jill. If Jane is uncomfortable with the situation she needs to get Joe to tell Jill. Joe is not providing any feedback to Jill. Jane is not providing any feedback to Jill. Jane is providing feedback to Joe that she can't be trusted but that's a couple derivatives away from the subject at hand. Not only that, but the only person with any control over the situation is the shit-starter.Both who you gossip to and what pieces of gossip you are with that person do provide feedback on that relationship
Gossip that gets back to the person it's about is feedback about how that person is being perceived around the office.
Yeah, I don’t ageee. The person starting shit is the person saying shit about Jill. If jack says something about Jill that he can know or reasonably assume she wouldn’t want said/would consider a private topic (of jill’s), jack is the one in the wrong - not Jane for giving Jill a heads’-up that jack is someone she probably doesn’t want to put her confidences in any more because he can’t keep them to himself. Jack shouldn’t assume he can trust his audience when he goes and speaks to Jane; he’s already proven himself an untrustworthy audience by repeating what he’s heard from Jill in some degree of confidence. talk about double standards roflmao: "i can take anything i hear from or about you and repeat it to anyone i want; but if anyone i speak to dares repeats it to anyone they want who might be offended by what i had to say, (aka the person the gossip's about) it's that person's fault! it's like blaming the person who turned the light on for the shit your dog left on your carpet - because after all, if he hadn't turned the light on, you would've never known the shit was there! this logic...smdh What I’m getting from your argument is it’s 100% to say whatever you want about people so long as no one turns around and lets those people know what’s being said. Which just sounds like petty shadiness to me I prefer a world where you can say whatever you want so long as you’d stand by it when your subject asks you what it is they hear you’ve been saying. . knowing something about someone does not give you unlimited rights to share that information with whoever you want whenever and wherever you want without consequences, lolol
You can prefer whatever world you want, it's not the one you live in. The person starting shit is the one causing a confrontation. Extension of confidence is not problematic - "jack only got this job because his aunt is on the board of directors" is a statement you make when you're telling someone one or more of the following: - Jack is incompetent. - I don't like jack. - I work harder than jack. - I think you work harder than Jack. - You and I are not like Jack. - We both work harder than Jack. - We're both more competent than Jack. - We're both more virtuous than Jack. - etc. Take that back to Jack? That's a betrayal of trust. I know you don't want to hear this because it's what you did. It's what got you your "reputation." And it's way easier to think that you did the virtuous thing, rather than fucking up, but you fucked up. And that's why you have a reputation. Your relationship with PC does not trump your relationship with MT. They coexist. The move was to tell PC that you're friends with MT and that you don't think MT would like PC spreading her information around. Your confrontation was with PC, not with MT. You needed to keep confidence there and you didn't. You can absolutely express your displeasure to PC and encourage her to behave; it then becomes a thing between PC and you where you're defending MT's interests. You're giving PC an opportunity to reexamine her relationship with MT, as well as with the rest of the office. You're also throwing a flag on the play so that similar breaches are less likely to happen. Instead you overruled the wishes of PC and made things awkward for her. You took the initiative everyone else didn't to go to MT and say "I'm a better friend to you than PC is." You did not resolve a small situation in an environment of trust, you turned a small situation into a large one in a situation of discord and everybody remembers it now. Thing is, you didn't stop the gossip. You stopped the gossip from coming to you. You betrayed trust. And by telling MT, you forced MT to address the issue when maybe she would have preferred to let it blow over. That's because you want to be in the right and the only way you can stay there is if I'm an evil shithead. I'm not an evil shithead. What I'm saying is that you have control over what you say to other people. You have no control over what other people say to you, and you have no control over what other people say to other people. Your integrity and your reputation hinges entirely on what you say to other people and blowing shit up gives you a reputation as a bomb-thrower, not a peacemaker. And I mean, to get there and feel good about it you've had to adopt "trust no one" as a motto: To hold this belief you have to assume that everyone is either honest or dishonest and there's no in between. Life doesn't work that way. You know it and the harder you try to make it so, the fewer members your ingroup will have.What I’m getting from your argument is it’s 100% to say whatever you want about people so long as no one turns around and let’s those people know what’s being said.
Jack shouldn’t assume he can trust his audience when he goes and speaks to Jane; he’s already proven himself an untrustworthy audience by repeating what he’s heard from Jill in some degree of confidence.
No, I am in the right; the incident I'm talking about occurred over a year ago, so I can report back on how I've done at work since then, whether I have a reputation that's damaged my perception at work or not. And the fact is I got glowing feedback from my peers and an above average rating and so on and so forth. I know what I did was the right thing because it didn't happen yesterday. I know what I did was the right thing for a lot of other reasons, too. I know I wasn't the only one who felt uncomfortable and I know that other people conveyed similar concerns as I did separately of me. Is that enough for you? How about the past year where I've been in a management capacity over this employee and I have worked to develop that relationship past that rebuke, successfully? Yes, there are boundaries between me and the employee now that weren't there the first few times we interacted. I consider that a good thing; she offered me a muscle relaxer the first time I met her in person, at a work conference. Boundaries needed to be established. The employee repeatedly was over the line and inappropriate. I was thanked by other coworkers for speaking up. In the past six months three people have told me that they want to work with me as their manager. Unprompted, not that it matters, because if you don't want to, you're not going to believe that anyway. Was that enough context for you to believe me? I'm fucking good at my job; I'm good enough with people; I certainly know when someone's behavior is over the line and I don't escalate an issue, business or personal, unless it's categorically warranted. You don't have to believe me - but I'd like it if you'd stop declaring me the utter opposite just because it makes you feel subversive to answer questions by stating the question isn't a problem, the asker is.
You don't know what the best way was. Your comment is a begrudging retreat to half-believing me. I didn't succeed; I must've recovered. Because if I had to recover, you were still right somehow. Do you call a 10% raise and a 12% bonus a "recovery" reward? My interpretation of gossip is that it is both vital to human life, valuable, and indispensible; while also retaining the very real potential to create a cesspool of negative emotions in a group of people when certain conditions occur. Which basically agrees with what you said. Except plus nuance. Gorsh, that nuance must've just been so offensive. ----------------------- "I agree on major aspects of what klein has to say" "For the most part, I agree we're social creatures and talking about each other is a major component of interacting, of caring, and of life. I agree gossip is not inherently bad; we should embrace that we do it, and maybe not sweat over it so much (on the day-to-day)."
I'm retreating from nothing. You don't know what the best way was either, but what you did is not what I would do. Go ahead and quote yourself; the fact that you edit every post multiple times throughout the course of the day renders your quotes meaningless. You started from a position of disagreeing with my basic point, went to the mattresses over the idea that somehow gossip is feedback and now you're throwing paystubs in my face to demonstrate that you're a good person or something. Congratulations on your raise.
Feedback includes any information you get about yourself...Feedback is not just what gets ranked; it's what gets thanked, commented on, and invited back or dropped. Feedback can be formal or informal, direct or implicit... - Thanks for the Feedback, by Douglas Stone & Sheila Heen It's almost like I believe gossip is a form of feedback because these two random Harvard Law Professors, whose speciality is conflict resolution and negotiation, who run a lab out of Harvard dedicated to studying these specific behaviors, and who literally wrote the book on how to respond to feedback well(did I mention this is an excerpt from that book? oh. that's what it is) told me that it was. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I admit, the book's from 2014. I'm sure it's possible in the past 4 years you've read something more researched and up-to-date than this my primary source. I'm sure whatever convincing article you must've read was probably written by people in an even better position to know what they are talking about than Douglas Stone and Sheila Heen (did I mention they're both at Harvard?) (running a research lab?) (dedicated to studying this sort of stuff?). (well, at least they were) I'd love to learn more, if you've got any non-paywall links to the peer-reviewed and scientifically-based research articles which surely must help account for your certainty here! Please. Share around. edited to add the npr book excerpt/article, because i already mentioned this book in this thread and still think others here might like to read it
Note the article says “ I don’t like the way you look in those pants” and not “Terry doesn’t like the way you look in those pants” I have to ask, did you actually stick up for the person in the moment ? Because doing the right thing in the moment is what actually defines your character. If somebody tries to talk badly of somebody I like I’ll offer them perspective and make it clear I’m not going to carry on with them. I won’t pretend to know the situation but most I’ve seen were somebody felt the need to bring the unknowing party into the equation were attempting to cover their own guilt over how they handled the initial situation.
Here's one specific example: PC was discussing other coworker, X. PC dished to the group that X got a divorce a few years back. Then within six months or almost immediately, X changed her name, moved to NY, and "completely changed" her identity. "You never hear about it because she never talks about it to anybody," PC tells us proudly. PC set off on a series of comments about how this must mean X was either crazy, or shady. I look at my other coworkers. This news is surprise to all of us. My other coworkers have background in fraud investigations and police work. When they hear "name change," "relocation," and "refusal to discuss life before or why," those behaviors raise different flags for them. Certainly not flags of "shadiness" or "hiding from crime" or "being crazy." Me, I have an aunt who did exactly what coworker X did. She's from my mom's side of the family and they're pretty nuts. Sometimes, I figure runaway aunt might be the sanest one of the lot. There's 8 of them. So I'm sitting there thinking, I don't think people do that sort of thing for fun and if she doesn't want to talk about it she probably has a really good reason, and trading uncomfortable eye contact with my coworkers. PC won't stop going on about it. It's clear she thinks this is very juicy, very engrossing gossip we must all want to speculate on. We don't. And since PC's here with my other coworkers because she's tagging along with me, yeah I realize this is my responsibility to shut down. I see my coworkers are uncomfortable and I am too. So I say ynno, probably what happened is none of our business. And, I've thought about doing exactly that too. PC pushes the scandalizing, surely-this-person-is-a-black-sheep narrative more. I say ynno, if i went through the bother of doing all that - changing my name, relocating to a totally different big anonymous city out of nowhere, clearly changing my life...if I did all that after a divorce...I probably didn't do that for fun, ynno? Like maybe she had a reason for doing what she did? Like maybe that was a really bad divorce she went through. Maybe she had a really bad husband. Or maybe, this is when I bring up my own angle, maybe her family sucks. Maybe she got fed up with their bullshit. Or she just had been tired and tied down and wasn't anymore and she finally got to do what she wanted to do. Maybe she always wanted her name to be X and just never had enough gumption to do it until then. Probably, whyever reason she did it, it probably's not very salacious. She works for a bank, we do bankground checks, I don't think she's hiding something. I'm not saying this to silence, of course. PC is chiming in, my coworkers are chiming in, PC is toning down, my coworkers are agreeing with me. I'm not an idiot or overly confident about what I did there - I didn't solve the problem. I didn't stand up and say "How dare you," and since X wasn't there, it feels incorrect to claim I "stuck up" for her. She wasn't being directly victimized. Then again, at this point, none of us know PC well enough to know if she's malicious, socially oblivious, or something else, either. We just know we're all coworkers, we're at a business dinner, PC is crossing lines for all the rest of us with her discussion, and we want that to stop and we want her to not repeat this behavior but with stories from other coworkers. If a woman I work with divorced her husband and win 6 months reinvented herself, relocated, renamed herself, and all that - I don't care why she did it. I don't care if she had a mental breakdown - because unless you know for certain that's what happened, until that instant where she looks you in the eye and confirms she did all that frivolously and foolishly and not because, idk, her husband was abusive or became a stalker or she was in a real bad life situation at that time and she needed to restart, to get a fresh start -- I'm more inclined she did what she did because she had to, to protect herself, than because she overreacted to a little ol' breakup. Sorry, is that just like the benefit of the doubt, or what? I don't want to speculate about something when it looks to me like a person probably did it to protect themselves. And of course, this is a story. This is a retelling. It's not accurate in breath and quote, but it's accurate to what I remember. This is also the event (it was an uncomfortable dinner) where both my other coworkers thanked me/said they appreciated me stepping into the conversation the way I did, that they felt uncomfortable too, and in other words 2 independent witnesses corroborated my take on the evening. After that dinner, one of my coworkers expressed to management that the whole evening, what with PC's gossiping/PC's conversational tracks, had made them uncomfortable and that they felt PC was over the line. I don't know who, as the manager kept it anonymous in talking to me and honestly I don't care, both of them are awesome, but I know the only person who didn't feel uncomfortable that night was PC. I know someone else complained because when my manager sought me out to ask if I had any experiences with PC, and I mentioned this event from this night -- my manager already knew about it. That's what makes this a good example. So, your call on how you feel about that, then.
This is a different side of the same story you have been telling that I’m not actually talking about. You previously mentioned you felt the need to tell the person being gossiped about what had been said but this is about when a manager sought you out because of what another coworker brought forward.
From six days ago: This isn't you telling someone something. This is you telling someone something and then that person telling someone else their interpretation of that something. And if you think those things are equivalent all the Harvard books in the world aren't going to help you. I'll say this: I've been polite. I haven't been condescending. I've deliberately minimized snark and aspersions. You reply to me in this tone again and it will be the last time.BUT IT'S NOT YOUR FEEDBACK.
This is an interesting question to me because I stand almost on the opposite side; today I have been mentally bemoaning the fact that there is no person I work with whom I can really be 100% truly honest with my opinions about other coworkers with (because, such talk is gossip; and there isn't a single coworker I both trust to keep my words private/to themselves, and from whom I think I'd get a sympathetic ear). I have an anti-gossip reputation because of some crap that went down a year or so ago at work. I think that is a better reputation to have. Someone came to me and divulged gossip which I felt was way over the line and was about a coworker whom i'm quite fond of. My solution at that time was to go to that coworker and let her know. That set the ball in motion. if I were you, first, I'd refrain. It's very hard to refrain from all gossip and honestly, as a human, I think it's unreasonable to think that we would stop talking about the other humans around us...so a better and more realistic step 1(a) - I would recommend, stop using names. Just stop. You can imply or let others pick up on who you are talking about, but stop naming people specifically. The furthest I feel comfortable going is often, "A certain manager..." or "a certain coworker." Even if it is probably COMPLETELY obvious to my immediate coworkers who I am talking about (assuming they know who I work with on what, which they should) -- I feel that 'discretion' not only gives you a cushion to fall back on if gossip comes back to bite you in the ass...but also prevents the gossip from becoming too personal or starting a bitch circle about a single person or manager. It prevents the gossip from going too far (in a single moment/conversation). It also gives the rest of your people you're talking with the opportunity to pretend they don't know who you're talking about if they don't want to engage. Or if they think what you're saying is something they are better off not knowing. (These factors are more relevant in a more discrete workplace, as mine is and it sounds like yours is not.) The first step with this problem really has to start with you. If someone tells you gossip which you think is over the line or harmful or untrue, you could try asking, "Should you be telling me that?" When it comes to gossip about changes in company direction and/or expectations...I think that's a little more normal and you can't expect to stamp that out. When there is uncertainty with the company, there will always be more. If you are a person whom others look to for advice, or confidence, and you hear gossip about the state of the company that you think is overly negative or needlessly worrisome, stand up straight, say "i'm sure it's not as bad as we think it is," and turn back to your desk and work. Be a good example.
Yeah. I've been trying the whole "Just shut the fuck up and work" route, but it's so hard to stick to. People are angry and frustrated and wanna complain, and I'm angry and frustrated and wanna complain, and we're all frustrated by similar stuff, so it just comes so easily. It's like if their was a flood in your city and it's affecting everyone, how can you not talk about the flood, but at the same time, every time someone brings up the flood, it just rains a bit more. I think though, I might start with the whole idea redirection and only willing to talk about someone if it's positive.
Or even - if it's negative, but it's something that it helps others to know - I think that is fine too. There is helping other people out and giving them a heads' up (he's in a bad mood today, or she's very picky about proofreading, or whatever). I also think it can be good just to vent...but I try to keep my venting either short, or directed at people I don't work immediately with. If there is so much negative talk going on at your work that it makes you feel bad afterwards - that it bothers you enough to want to ask, hey, like, do we have to keep doing this? should we? can we cut this out?, except to a bunch of people and phrased more like "what are your thoughts?"... it's not just regular gossip lol. I love gossip, but not when it makes you feel grimy.
Another good rule, of critique or criticism as a whole in general forever and ever amen: if you are going to say something negative, start with a positive. Make that a rule. You have to say something positive about a person before you can dive into what about them is driving you crazy today. It is a small place to start but I think practicing this can help change your overall mentality
Sounds like the good ol' compliment sandwich. Simple and effective. I try to implement it when tutoring. It provides that nice balance of feedback. And, actively thinking to make that balance can help me remember either good or bad statement for continuity in future progress or setbacks - adds a nice extra touch of care.