Your ideas and thoughts on the star wars universe, most specifically the new movie.
sucked the soundtrack was oddly dull carrie fisher can't really act, at least not in the way they wanted her to here best part was the last thirty seconds the new girl is very good, the new main guy is okay. agree with whoever said 20-40 minutes longer would've worked, it felt shorter than it was and we missed a lot of chances to develop the four-against-the-world aspect that made new hope work so well edit: not a single track in the new movie that can match this
I thought the last minute or so was the worst - unnecessary slow pacing, a scene that nobody needs (since we already know she goes to find Luke) and freaking helicopter shots? Really?. One highlight of the music was Rey's theme - that introductory scene was really well done. Maybe you had higher / too high expectations? Of course it is not as good as the first films, it can't be. The context is too different. I thought it was a good film with lots of flaws, not enough to ruin it for me though. Also, without this movie we wouldn't have this amazing twitter account: Emo Kylo Ren.
I agree with you. I thoroughly enjoyed the film, though I thought the pacing was a bit too break neck. I'm hoping that the next installment gives us more time to develop the characters and experience some dialog. flagamuffin is right about Carrie Fischer, her acting feels stiff but that is likely as much to do with her plastic surgery than anything. Still, I liked seeing her. It's hard for me to imagine seeing this without expectations. Mine were high and JJ delivered. Is it a predictable plot? Um yeah. How many times can they blow up a Death Star? I mean... Come on. Still, I felt like I was in the Star Wars universe. Does Kylo look like a Skywalker? Um, no. Still, I thought he was perfect in the roll. The moment with Rey and Chewie taking off together was beautiful. The end though? The lady 30 seconds were pure cheese. I hated seeing Luke. I thought the overhead camera shit circling the island was weird and contrived. Rey and Finn were great Po too. I'm most encouraged by the fact that all of my favorite people/actors in the film weren't old school cast but newbies. Future is bright!
This is how I felt too! I agree with all your points. Pacing was a bit too quivk and thete were too many winks to the old movies (and ine very big one) The new characters were my favorite part, even if Po seemed to speak almost exclusively in cliches: "we've got company!", "Hit them with all you've got!" Etc. I look forward to the next installment and I hope it can be a bit more confident and try something a bit fresher that doesn't need to be a bridge between the old star wars and the new.
Glad to know I'm not the only who loves Mr. "shops at Hoth Topic".
I thought it was mediocre. The soundtrack was unobtrusive at best. They stuck waaaaay too much to the plot of IV, but I really look forward to VIII-- the last 30 seconds of VII suggested a new direction, which I welcome. It seemed like they cut out those 20-40 minutes and instead relied on, like, the established Star Wars meta to explain the characters' relationships? i.e. We're able to understand Finn/Rey/Poe by virtue of our familiarity with Luke/Leia/Han. But hey, still an enjoyable experience. (The dude they got to play Ren looks nothing like Carrie Fisher or Harrison Ford. Come on, guys.)
Okay, no need for spoiler warnings, if you've not seen the movie yet, you're not a fan. A question to everyone about Rey's lineage: How come nobody ever talks about Rey and Ben being brother and sister? 1. The only reason Kylo Ren doesn't kill her when he kills the other students of Luke is that he has the light in him and can't kill his sister. 2. Kylo knows her 3. Kylo says to her "you think of han solo as your father. Trust me, he would disappoint you." -a bit foreshadowing 4. Leia does recognize her. She and Han put her in hiding, with the Falcon nearby intentionally. They don't want her to be seduced to dark side and therefore put her in obscurity. 5. Chewy obviously loves her I think they find a way to make kylo and Rey brother and sister.
But, to be fair, all of these things with the exception of 3 could apply to her being his cousin. I think they're siblings though. There's too much repetition with the old movies to not have them be brother and sister. My thought, and there's huge holes like age discrepancy, is that Snoke told Ben to kill all the jedi. He couldn't kill his sister and thought he would get away with sending her off. Snoke knew and put Ben's training on hold and he could only continue when he proved he left behind his family.
I think that even though we have this in a separate thread, we should blackout any spoilers. Remember, people can see the stuff in chatter and not everybody has seen the film.
I'm going to start with the hero's journey. Let's look at what that is and how it relates to the first trilogy. Act 1 - The Departure The call to adventure - Leia's Message Refusal of the call - Help with the harvest Supernatural Aid- Obi-wan rescues Luke Crossing the first threshold - escape from tatooine Belly of the Whale - Trash compactor Act 2 - Initiation Road of trials - Practice with light Meeting with Goddess - Princess Leia Temptation off path - Call of the dark side Atonement of the father - Vader and Luke reconcile Apotheosis - Luke becomes a Jedi The ultimate boon - Death star destroyed Act 3 - Return Refusal of the return - Luke wants to stay to avenge obi wan Magic flight - the Millennium Falcon Rescue from without - Han saves luke from Darth Crossing the return threshold - Falcon destroys tie fighters Master of two worlds - victory ceremony Freedom to live - Rebellion is victorious over empire. Now, we know that Lucas wrote the first movie with this journey in mind as Campbell was his mentor. When the rest of the trilogy was green lit, the first movie became act 1 and the second and third became 2 and 3. With this newest movie, people are commenting on how similar it is to the old movies. It's only because it so closely follows this hero's journey. What makes these new movies interesting is how well they follow that Journey. I've only seen it once, but so far Ren, Rey, and Finn are all following the hero's journey. Rey's is pure good, Fiin is light to dark, and Rey is pure dark. I have a hunch that Poe will have his own hero's story but I wasn't ticking off the list. What's also interesting is the fact that, while this first movie hit all 17 steps in the hero's journey for three characters, the larger story only covered the first 5 steps of the first act in the larger story. They are building a very neat tapestry of journeys and nested journeys and I'm interested to see if they stick heavily to all points, diverge to tell a better story, or comment on how neatly history repeats.
Noticed this too when I watched it (e.g. Fin and Rey refusing the call in mazz's cantina) and I really liked it. I'm excited to see how they finish the journey.
I'm glad I kept my expectations tempered even while my hype rose because I really enjoyed this movie. It's definitely a JJ Abrams movie and it's definitely a modern Disney non-animated feature, but I had a great time watching the film in theaters. I loved Rey, Poe, and BB-8 (though he's more Wall-E than R2), I really liked Finn, and I'm very intrigued by Kylo Ren and how his arc might develop. I have no problem with his "weakness" and see him as a better executed Anakin. However, I would like to know more about how Rey did so well at the end because it's a very big departure from the struggles Luke faced in mastering the force. I think this is probably the most visually appealing Star Wars film since Empire, and I'm almost disappointed I saw some of the most beautiful shots in the trailers (the shots with the Star Destroyer especially). The movie also features some of the best action scenes the franchise with the escape on the Falcon, the battle on Maz's world, and the last lightsaber fight. However, there are criticisms. I think this is unfortunately the worst scored Star Wars :/. Rey and Kylo's themes are alright, but nothing was as memorable for me as the Binary Suns, The Asteroid Field, The Imperial March, Leia's Theme, Yoda's Theme, or even Duel of the Fates, Battle of the Heroes, or the romance theme from the prequels. I also think the use of a Death Star 3.0 was a bad decision. I mean people criticize Jedi for this. They had to know they'd be criticized for that decision. At least the destruction of this Starkiller Base wasn't as big a focus as the attack on the Death Star in ANH. It was more similar to Jedi, where the base is a backdrop for the character drama and battles among Rey, Finn, Han, Chewie and Kylo Ren. I also wish I had a better understanding of Finn's motivations for defecting, his experience in the First Order. I would have loved to have more Poe as well. But maybe that's my man crush on Oscar Isaac talking (seriously see Inside Llewyn Davis if you haven't). Rey was great too but I do think she needed more conflict and obstacles as we don't really know the deal with her "family." And they probably could have added this by removing my least favorite part of the movie: those stupid creatures on Han's ship. It was unnecessary to the plot and took me out of the film. But overall it was a great ride, with fun comic relief (the only one that was really pushing it was the trash compactor joke for me), great visuals, great action, great performances, and finally felt like the modern Star Wars the prequels should have been. I loved the escape on the Falcon. I loved the battle on Maz's planet. And I loved the final lightsaber fight. It was everything the fights from the prequels was missing, and the scene where Rey force pulls the lightsaber was the most triumphant moment of the film for me (though still does bring up questions about how she is so good with the force for about 30 minutes). I want to see more edge in the future though. It's weird. The First Order massacres a village, destroys 5 planets, and are basically Nazis, but nothing in the film intimidated me like Vader's ruthless dismissal of his admirals in Jedi, the torture of Han, or Vader's playing with Luke and eventual reveal. I want to feel like The First Order is a real intimidating force next film. I want to see the heroes struggle. And I want to see new ideas. My greatest fear is that Disney won't be willing or able to take risks with this franchise, that it will get cocky like it has with the Marvel films. I'm afraid that consequently they won't be able to capture the emotional investment that the OT invokes with Luke and Vader's dynamic, as well as Luke's story in general. But we still have two films to flesh out this trilogy's story so we'll see. I keep fluctuating between rating it a 7 or 8 out of 10 and whether I like it more than Jedi (though I wasn't pulled in by anything in this like I was with the throne room scenes in Jedi). It's obviously better than the prequels though, and that's enough for me to recommend it to anyone. I look forward to owning this in the future and seeing it again soon.
Oh God. I'm so glad we're having a discussion thread on this now. I've been afraid to bring up my opinion of the movie on r/StarWars since I saw it last night. I remember when it was announced that EA was going to produce the new Battlefront and I said how'd they shit all over it with DLC that I got downvoted to oblivion. Here goes. Don't hate me. The movie was rough. Not as bad as the prequels mind you, but it was still rough to the point where I can honestly say that I didn't enjoy it that much. For one, the pacing was awful. You could tell that they trimmed down a lot from the script and left just as much if not more on the cutting room floor (like all of Captain Phasma's character) by the way some scenes felt very rushed. In all honesty, this film could have benefited from another 20-40 minutes of length. Some of the dialogue was forced. Really forced, even for Star Wars. JJ Abrams had some good instances of using the whole concept of "show, don't tell" but at other times I felt they were really spoon feeding you concepts through the dialogue. The humor was obnoxious. Glaringly obnoxious. The original trilogy had humor, little bits here and there to make you smirk. They were subtle. They were charming. They fit the pacing of the film well. TFA though? Slapstick. Through and through. Ffft. I have more complaints, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. I'm going with a bud to see it again on Sunday. I'll take better mental notes. That said though, the battles were fucking awesome and I'm willing to watch it again just for them.
I will say I liked it a lot more the second time, but I think I also liked it more than you the first time too so..
You know, the prequels were a huge let down for me, so going into this I had myself a bit prepped to be disappointed. I wasn't looking to be disappointed, but I was ready in case it happened. What really tickles at my brain here is that in a lot of ways I feel like the movie just barely missed the mark, which I think is actually even more painful than it missing the mark completely. That extra 20-40 minutes that got cut out of the script or left on the cutting room floor? I bet that alone could have made a huge difference. In all honesty, if it didn't have the name "Star Wars" slapped on it, I don't think it would have been as well received, both by critics or the public.
do you think a dvd release with extended versions (bringing back the stuff from the cutting room floor) could improve it? honestly, I enjoyed the hell out of it, but I'm not a hardcore fangirl so I'm able to enjoy it for what it is and am able to suspend disbelief pretty easily.
I know a lot of people say the extended editions of the Lord of the Rings films are wonderful. For TFA, I could honestly see it going either way. If JJ Abrams edited those scenes down in such a way that the cut parts would mess up the pacing, adding them back in wouldn't help. On the other hand, if they can add to the information given to the viewers without being repetitive or redundant, then I think they could honestly help. It wasn't awful. But I think it could have been much better with a few tweaks here and there.do you think a dvd release with extended versions (bringing back the stuff from the cutting room floor) could improve it?
honestly, I enjoyed the hell out of it, but I'm not a hardcore fangirl so I'm able to enjoy it for what it is and am able to suspend disbelief pretty easily.
So I went in with expectations that the movie would likely be as good as the Star Trek reboot, and, to me, it was. I have a good bit I can criticize, but I also had a lot of fun with the film, more fun than I've had with recent comic based movies. I do agree with you, but only slightly. As a movie, I think it's a strong 7/10. But I'm ok with that. I might have said 8 originally but I was really hyped. My third watch will likely decide. I don't rate JJ and it was a JJ movie. I do have a high opinion of Rian Johnson though (I loved Brick) so I'm hoping more can be done with the sequel. What worries me is whether Disney doesn't allow these movies to have an edge. If they don't, the franchise will suffer in mediocrity. I want risks and edge like what Empire brought. We'll see how it goes.
Even though it's not my favorite of the OT (I'm torn between A New Hope and Jedi for different reasons), Empire is my go to example of how great a Star Wars movie can be. I was actually going to point to it as an example in contrast to TFA, saying "See? You don't need a Deathstar 3.0 to have a great movie." I don't think I'm familiar with anything else by Rian Johnson but Brick was an amazing film. Even with some of its flaws, when you consider that he took a well established genre and put it in a whole new setting it's a great movie. If he can do something similar for Star Wars, it'll probably be a great film. As for Disney and their willingness/unwillingness to take risks, when the news that they bought Lucasfilm came out, I and a lot of other people pointed to their success with Marvel and said "See? They can be trustworthy." This past year though, I'm starting to have doubts. Age of Ultron felt messy and Ant Man wasn't all that exciting. At the same time, while I don't read Marvel Comics any more, I've heard a lot of people criticize Marvel saying that they're unwilling to take editorial risks and a large influence behind that hesitance is they don't want to do anything that could disrupt the MCU. As a result, you get fan service garbage like Gwenpool.I do have a high opinion of Rian Johnson though (I loved Brick) so I'm hoping more can be done with the sequel. What worries me is whether Disney doesn't allow these movies to have an edge. If they don't, the franchise will suffer in mediocrity. I want risks and edge like what Empire brought. We'll see how it goes.
If you are reading this from chatter these are Star Wars VII spoilers!!! The way they fleshed out the force had me jumping for joy. In the previous movies all we saw were super jumps, lightning, pushing, choking, and really generic uses of the force. The way they used it in this movie added to the mystery of exactly how powerful the force really is. Kylo stops the blaster bolt in mid-air, Ren reads minds, lightsabers actually build bonds and connections with their users. It established why Jedi and Sith are a power to be reckoned with. That really blew me away honestly because they were never one to delve into the lore of Star Wars like that The characters were all unbelievable in my eyes. The relationship between Rey and Finn was pretty great. Two people who never knew family or friendship find each other. I really liked the interactions they had in movie, and their hug on Starkiller base really seemed genuine. While deep down I don't particularly want them to be a thing I wouldn't mind it. Both actors played their parts so great for people who've never taken on a major role like that before. They were really believable and I was rooting for them the entire time. Kylo Ren is by far my favorite character though he shows us a side of the Sith that for whatever reason they never really showed in the previous movies. In the previous movies every sith is so cold and calculated, but it is know that the Sith give into passion, and strong emotion. The erratic nature of Kylo Ren really fleshed out what it means to become a Sith. His internal conflict where he actually feared the light side, and wanted nothing more than to push it out for good was really awesome. I'm almost positive that Rey is Luke's Daughter. First her connection with the lightsaber brings her back to the hallway where luke fights vader, then shows her at the fall of Luke's attempt at creating a new Jedi Order, then before the Knights of Ren, and finally being left on Jakku in the hands of that trader she was working for in the beginning. The next piece I found interesting was Maz Kunata talks about how it was Anakins lightsaber, then Luke's, and now it calls to her. My theory is that Luke not being raised in the old ways of the jedi married and had a child. Cue Kylo Ren's destruction of the newly found Jedi Order, and Luke's wife dies. He is left with a child, who he desperately wants to protect. He goes to Jakku and leaves Rey with Unkar Plutt to protect her( the reason I believe he was sent to protect her is he tries to keep BB8 from her by offering to buy it, and then first stealing it. We know from the flashback Rey was left in his care, so I'm just making the assumption he was trying to protect her). Why does he leave her on Jakku? The same reason Obi-wan brought Luke to Tatooine (It is a near lifeless planet where the force is weak, which would mask her connection to the force). After that Luke goes into hiding partially to train new jedi, but to keep his mind free from Ren and Snoke getting their hands on the knowledge that he has a daughter (or at least a daughter that is alive). That's all I've got really. Well, I kind of have an idea who Snoke is, but that is almost completely up in the air
Snoke confirmed as JAR JAR BINKS, THE ORIGINAL MASTERMIND WHO ORCHESTRATED THE DOWNFALL OF THE REPUBLIC WITH A SINGLE VOTE. "ALL ACCORDING TO PLAN-SAH."
No way man, I'm pretty sure Han or Leia would be aware they had a daughter. I think Rey is Lukes daughter. Seems the easiest explanation.. Which might suggest that it's completely wrong
There's a lot to suggest she's Luke's daughter: She has a similar story; She's evidently powerful in the force; She owns some items reminiscent of Luke's past belongings (a jedi training remote, rebel alliance pilot helmet), et cetera; There's also this teaser. It seems like it is directed to Rey, given that she's the main character. It strongly suggests Rey is related to Luke. In all honesty, I think this series has enough familial twists. I hope she isn't related to Luke. What if she was conceived by the force? Like Anakin? Maybe she'll be the exact opposite of Darth Vader.
There's actually a LOT more than suggestion that she is indeed Luke's daughter. I've actually had this rant in person with rd95, and laid out my entire case. First off, Her name is 1 letter away from the book 7,8,9 name for Luke's daughter, Jeyna (or REYna amirite?). Second, the saber that was her grandfathers (even if it was THE YOUNGLING-STABBER, talk about a family legacy), then her fathers, and is now "calling out to her", and is waiting for family who dropped her off to put her into hiding so that she wouldn't be chased by the renegade jedi from the academy. Now lastly, lets go to the trailer: "THE FORCE IS STRONG IN MY FAMILY. MY FATHER HAD IT. I HAVE IT. AND YOU HAVE IT." So not to even talk about the TFA video game slip where Kylo calls Rey "COUSIN" and Disney is immediately shutting down any and all talk about it when it was posted, we have to look at the fact that honestly it sounds like making Rey's heritage a reveal was like a last minute thought to be a secret. Or else that trailer wouldn't have even been a thing. Disney is being a little hamhanded here. Not even subtle at all.
s Alright fair enough, tons of evidence. To me it almost seems as if there is way too much evidence. The trailer seems to be a dead giveaway, which I think is against the surprise revelation style of star wars. Honestly, like Existentialist, I hope there isn't a "surprise" family connection, though I guess it's star wars so I'm more then likely out of luck there. s
I have to watch it again, but they're totally aware they have a daughter. There's a bunch of times when people ask about Ren and the scene changes. Most notably when Maz asks, "who's the girl?" Han takes a deep breath and the scene changes. Leia does the same thing when she sees Han but there's a scene change. And Ren flips shit when he finds out a girl on dakka has BB-8, and she could be his cousin but the reveal of "I am your brother" is super tempting. I can't guarantee I'm right, but I've already put up 20 bucks to say I am.
If that's truly the case (which I think you're right), that's shit writing right there. It's predictable and simple minded. It's forcing drama and tension by building on past relationships and established characters in the most straight forward way. They're basically making you care about the new characters because you care about the old, instead of developing the new characters and letting them come into their own in such a way that you develop a care for them.Ren and Rey are totally brother and sister. I have to watch the movies again to build my case, but I'm willing to bet on it.