Posted this on /r/hubski, got a few upvotes but no response - so thought I should probably best post it here:
Hubski on the surface looks like the kind of thing that answers all the issues I've had with Reddit, and offers a lot of really great ideas. But I do have some questions, some concerns, and also ideas for improvement. Hope you don't mind me sharing!
1. I think it needs a better intro guide - after going through it, I still didn't really understand what was going on, and that was coming from being experienced with reddit which let's be honest Hubski is rather similar too. Your site could really do with a good explaination as to how it works - perhaps a video? This might also help promote the site.
2. The site is really, really quiet. Why so? For something a few months old I can understand that - but Hubski is, what, over 2 years old? It would really benefit from people submitting a ton more content. Any way to encourage this? The founders could certainly play their part.
3. Where are the rules? I can't seem to see any outside of standard legalese TOS. Does Hubski have any rules against defined objectional content?
4. What is the moderation policy? Seems you have this silencing system which is user controlled. Can you elaborate on how this works?
5. I'm not sure about the #subject.user tags. Why are they together? I find that a bit confusing as to what the subject is. Why not separate them?
6. The site is very monochrome. Why not add some colour? Having certain colours asigned to certain tags would be very helpful in seeing what type of content it is at a glance.
7. Thumbnails! Also very useful at getting an idea of the content at a glance before clicking on it. Any chance of such a feature being introduced?
8. What about avatars? One issue I have with Reddit is the difficulty in remembering who anyone is just from a name. Avatars are good at giving more of a memorable personality to a poster.
9. Do the admins have any policy on administration transparency? This seems to be one of the big issues with Reddit and source of a great deal of conflict and conspiracy theories.
The thing about Hubski that seems to trip up most new users is that it's path is different than a lot of comparable sites. Hubski's goal isn't to "get big" or grow it's userbase to super big proportions. Hubski's goal is rather to maintain it's community and quality of content, so things move slower here. A lot of people come here looking for a replacement for sites like Reddit, but you shouldn't think of it like that. Hubski will give you your fix of things that Reddit can't offer, but it doesn't do all the things other site will--and shouldn't. 7. I rather like that there aren't thumbnails on Hubski and I hope it stays that way. Hubski has a clean, zen look to it as is. The other issue is that all posts are on comparatively equal footing on your feed without thumbnails. Thumbnails become attention-baiting little bastards. Browsing Hubski takes some human amounts of patience, and that's in line with what the site wants to offer. 9. Everyone seems to always fret about power abuse when coming from Reddit. The admin/moderator dynamic that there is on Reddit does not exist on Hubski. All content is really just user-moderated on a per-person basis. I don't know how such controversies could even arise on Hubski.
Agreed. I'm of the opinion that the front page of /r/all is nearly always 100% banal pictures precisely because of thumbnails.I rather like that there aren't thumbnails on Hubski and I hope it stays that way. Hubski has a clean, zen look to it as is. The other issue is that all posts are on comparatively equal footing on your feed without thumbnails. Thumbnails become attention-baiting little bastards. Browsing Hubski takes some human amounts of patience, and that's in line with what the site wants to offer.
You're a very trusting person. For as noble and trustworthy as the admins may sound, if a system isn't transparent, there's no way of knowing if it's being abused.All content is really just user-moderated on a per-person basis. I don't know how such controversies could even arise on Hubski.
1. See tutorial link at the bottom of the page, and read the primer. 2. 4 years old :) 3. Nothing illegal (but content is at the discretion of the site). 4. See here. 5. If you hover over user, you can find a link to see and follow all that user's posts with that tag. If you hover over just the tag, you can find a link to see and follow all content with that tag, independent of who submitted it. 6. We like plain. 7. No 8. See 7. 9. Feel free to ask questions.
That pretty much nails it. I would add though that they are judging a book by its cover. Like anything worthwhile, you have to dig into it in order to see what's actually happening. Hubski isn't "slow" but it is "deliberate". There are many discussions, conversations etc. happening. However, if what someone is looking for is a fast-paced, easy to consume stream of content, Hubski will never satisfy them. Hubski is a discussion community first and foremost and it sounds like this person is looking for a "comment community". I do appreciate the feedback regarding the need for an intro video. I should mention that we (steve) are working on a Hubski intro video that I think will help shepherd new users in the right direction.
Laughed at 7 and 8. To expand on 8, at least in my opinion, avatars are a cheap way to remember somebody. I think not having those encouragea people to interact with others and remember them through that as opposed to something more superficial. Plus I don't like how avatars look...
I get judged by my appearance every single fucking day and it's tiresome even when it's to my benefit. One of the benefits I see to being online is that no one knows what I look like until I feel comfortable showing them. I was a big proponent of not adding avatars when it came up in a discussion thread and I remain that way.
we might be similarly judged by our choice of username. but what does a forum with no names look like? 4chan or writing on a bathroom wall. i agree with you, i think our options for personalization should be stopped at usernames and whatever the user chooses to say on their profile.
But my point does still stand: any image by which I present myself will allow others to form snap opinions of me for it. sardis accurately points out that no matter what, as long as we have some sort of "handle," be it name, avatar, or other, by which we identify and differentiate ourselves, there is an amount of prejudgment that will come with that name. However I do feel that an image lends itself to more judgement, and perhaps more snap judgment, than a word or series of words - usually. If there were someone on here with, for instance, a racially offensive or blatantly sexist or "novelty"-type username, I admit I would judge them immediately. I'd also prefer not to have that snap judgment come into play, though - that judgment I'm talking about in regards to avatars, I mean. If someone really likes anime and puts a picture from an anime up as their avatar I think it's likely I would tend to dismiss them as "less serious" due to my lack of interest in anime and lack of context regarding whatever character they chose, plus some not-so-great previous interactions with some Hubski users who were really, really fond of some anime I'd never heard of and frequently referenced said anime in their posts. Is that my bias? Yes, absolutely. I don't want to introduce my bias. So I don't want your picture, unless you put it up yourself on your bio. i DO have one or two pictures/drawing of me up on my bio but their inaccuracy is one of the reasons I keep them: that, and the fact that they derive pretty purely from Hubski users and interactions, which makes them "belong" to the site in a way that general pictures don't. Pictures can be such cheap grabs for attention. Even if I didn't use them that way, I feel like others very easily could opt to do so. I don't want to walk into a situation already feeling a certain way about the person I'm talking to. Pictures are much more likely to influence an opinion I have than a username. Let me figure out how I feel about you through words and discussion. Isn't that what hubski is about?
even if hubski did have avatars you could presumably choose to not have one. but even then you'd be judged on your lack of an avatar if having one is the norm. so really there's no escaping it! this is well put and i agree. i think hubski has a good balance between the two extremes of user personalization. the two extremes imo, is on one end a forum/comment section with mandatory social network connection (ghost accounts can of course be made but they will be shunned by a community that advocates real sounding name plus a human profile pic) which hopes to engender thoughtfulness instead of fanatical comments like on yt, twitter etc. the other end being the 4chan/bathroom wall situation i mentioned above. p.s. has anyone here heard of ryder ripps' dump.fm? where communication is predominantly image based.I don't want to walk into a situation already feeling a certain way about the person I'm talking to. Pictures are much more likely to influence an opinion I have than a username. Let me figure out how I feel about you through words and discussion. Isn't that what hubski is about?
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I'm pretty new here (this is my first post, actually), and from your questions, I got the impression you're applying a reddit (or other) filter to hubski - at least as far as visual design and the community go. I kind of do the same thing because I'm so used to reddit. Getting acclimated to a new site takes time, but I remember having the same issues when I joined reddit many (many) moons ago. I am curious about administrative policy because of the ultra-powerful mod situation on reddit, but I feel that will probably develop and evolve when required into hubski's own thing. You've raised some good questions, but I think more than anything we just need time to see how things work.
Why do so many redditors come to hubski with a laundry list of suggestions to make hubski more reddit-like? It's like traveling to another country and bitching about how it's not like the country one came from. No offense to you, but if you stick around, perhaps its a trend you too, may notice.
Hubski is no replacement for reddit. They are different places. It's like replacing facebook by twitter. Of course there are people that only use one of the two but they are vastly different sites and many many people have accounts in both sites. It's a small community here great for general discussion and I love all the clubs/projects but if you have some very niche interests, Hubski is not the best place to have regular discussions. I feel like if/when I share my more obscure interests here people are interested and curious (which leads to great conversations) but are not knowledgable to give advice/have more in depth discussions.
Am I allowed to give my perspective as a 4chan user, or do we still pretend that 4chan is some sort of mysterious and scary place that nobody ever talks about? (I'm doing it anyways.) I was initially directed to Hubski by Hacker News, as a new place for discussion of technology and startups that fixed a lot of Reddit's problems. In my opinion, this is a rather optimistic statement because a lot of the things that made Reddit potentially bad (magic internet points, a weighted rating system for displaying content, personal profiles, accounts, etc) are still present here. I started browsing Hubski from almost the beginning and didn't return back until very recently because Hacker News lied, or at least exaggerated, when the explained the site to me; there was very little actual tech content here, as most of the posts were about societal issues, social progress, gender equality, feminism, etc. These things simply don't interest me in the slightest so I had no reason to browse the site, no matter how good the mechanics were. Now that I've come back, there seems to be a better range of content. The movie club looked pretty interesting. However, as I mentioned before, Hubski repeats a lot of Reddit's mistakes. The biggest sin, in my opinion, is the #<topic>.<name> notation. Submissions should be viewed and rated based upon topic and relevance, and who posted it has simply no relevance at all. In fact, I think that one should have to click on the comments page purposefully to have to see who posted a link or topic, and purge the tag system from any and all names. I understand that removing people's names from the tags would barely change how the site functions, but it's the principle of the matter - judge people by their content, not their username or their past posting history. Accounts and usernames are the second deadly sin but there's no point in even suggesting change in that regard. A lot of 4chan's cynicism and bullying is born of elitism and not pure spite, which most people don't seem to understand. There's a certain level of competence and even conformity required to post there without being brutally criticized, and a lot of that is simple netiquette that has been completely lost over the years, like ahem not asking for the FAQ / rules when there's a link to it at the bottom of every page. I personally see a little of that same elitism in Hubski and I really, really hope it stays, because it's that kind of mindset that will keep this place from turning into /r/gaming v2.0 . However, sometimes 4chan spends a little too much time and effort on this - I once spent 20 minutes browsing /foolz/ for a URL because any request for that URL was met with "Check the archives, faggot." I hope Hubski can find a balance between being intentionally difficult and servicing braindead noobs who can't use Google. Another thing people fail to understand is that 4chan is one of the most accepting places ever. You can be a transsexual autistic Muslim hobo serial killer and part-time car thief, nobody will judge you because they're all equally fucked up. With all the posts I saw before about gender equality, I'd certainly hope that Hubski is of the same mindset. We all have opinions and every single one is shit. Further addressing some of the points that the OP made - things like thumbnails, Fisher Price colors, and avatars would cause me to do a 180 degree turn and slam the proverbial internet door on this place, and I am /very/ glad the creators of the site were smart enough to not to add them. Overall I'm fairly optimistic about the site. It didn't start off a very good fit for me, but I'll know after a few weeks of quiet browsing. I'm considering writing a userscript that would change everybody's name to 'Anonymous' and seeing how that goes.
Thanks! I'm considering writing a userscript that would change everybody's name to 'Anonymous' and seeing how that goes.
that's an interesting idea. We haven't gone quite that far, but you can currently set Hubski to a "zen mode" in your settings which takes out many of the components that give posts or comments a semblance of a "score." If you use it, let me know what you think.
(these numbers do not correspond to your points but we are all smart enough to figure out what each responds to) 0. Be an ex-redditor or don't, but don't base it on Hubski or on having us convince you why you should be. Personally, I still use both. Reddit provides things that Hubski doesn't, nor would I want Hubski to, like r/relationshipadvice. I love it when it's good, but that doesn't mean I want it here. 1. Quality, not quantity. OR, speak only when your words improve the silence. OR, silence is golden. OR, "when I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed." (Say something once, why say it again?) OR, any number of endless proverbs about how chatter to fill silence isn't valuable. I don't want MORE posts, I want GOOD posts. If there are more good posts, great. If no one finds anything interesting on the internet today, then I don't want a ton of random "news"-y shit in my feed just so that it's there. I'd rather roll around and discover all the great things I didn't read yesterday, or last year. 2. Moderation is on the user level. This is a good thing. But FACT: no user is powerful enough that their moderation of your interaction with them will significantly impact your experience of the site. this is actually HELPED by the fact that most people don't submit a shit ton. if one person or group of people became responsible for a large portion of posts, the impact of their moderating choices would expand (your moderating choices can impact participation on your posts). however currently no one has such a monopoly based SOLELY on the amateur data-gathering i've done. I'd love to be able to crunch more real numbers but I've talked to insom about it and there's no real easy way to identify certain things I think. Plus no real reason, right now. 3. yeah, tags are confusing. i would suggest following as many on a subject as you can find; like if you like writing, follow writing, follow writebetterdamnit, and then maybe follow like "authors" or "poetry" or "nonfiction" or "goodlongreads" as well. just take a scatter shot approach. if you are following the right people (for example, people with your interests) it is unlikely you will miss too many good posts because you are not following the tag as they will share them anyway. 4. don't worry about "how to get others to follow you," that's not really what this is about. be yourself. because people want to follow people whose a) posts and shares collude with their interests and/or b) whose opinions they value. I personally like to only follow people with certain percentages of posts to shares but I've become less snobby about this of late. It really does help to follow people who share your interests. 5. discover! 6. here is a list of posts i have made you may find useful. i call it my list fer newbs
1. Hubski is the sort of thing you learn as you go along. I've always thought of it as a way to weed out those who might not contribute as well to the community. 2. Can you imagine what Hubski would be like if it has as many users as reddit? It's quiet intentionally. 6. Hubski a'int about fluff. We get straight to the point and discuss. A fancy webpage would distract from the point. 7. See #6. 8. See #6. But also, you get to know the others users so well and everyone develops a personality, you remember who everyone else is eventually. All those unanswers have been better answered already.
Welcome to Hubski and thanks for the thoughtful feedback. 2. You'll find that (so far) Hubski is very one dimensional. There aren't many types of people in here (at least I haven't found them). It's mainly the intellectual playground of a small, tight bunch of founders, and the content that gets attention reflects that. I agree that it needs way more content variety added but I guess that will only increase as more people with varied interests join and contribute. However, I wonder if the founders would want to let go of being the most dominant group in here. 4. I have enquired about this before. 6. I love the minimalist look. The design is subtle but practical. 9. I agree.
I was talking with someone yesterday and I mentioned that nothing would make me happier than if there were many different communities on Hubski all using the architecture in different ways and occasionally overlapping, but not always. It's good to think of Hubski's architecture as more akin to Twitter then that of Reddit -because it is. I have a twitter account and I guarantee my experience on that site is much different than many other people's yet we are all still using the same site. I would love for that to happen on Hubski. I'm curious who you think all of these "founders" all over Hubski are? :)
I find myself wondering if this is already in play- not sure I'd even know if it was. Like to think that it is. Personally, I'm surprised at the "one dimensional" thing. I guess I could see it presenting that way superficially as generally everybody's learned to interact with each other in a way that promotes civility. Maybe that comes off as everybody agreeing w/ everybody else, sharing the same values and interests, etc. But I look at my feed, which I've curated, and then my chatter, which is comprised generally of people I'm following, and I see a pretty wide breadth of opinions and interests. Some of them I happen to espouse, others I really can't get behind. "One dimensional" seems a little loaded, though. organicAnt, care to elaborate?I was talking with someone yesterday and I mentioned that nothing would make me happier than if there were many different communities on Hubski all using the architecture in different ways and occasionally overlapping, but not always.
Founders is probably the wrong word (excuse my ESL), pioneers is probably more appropriate. You out of all people know what I mean ; ) My point was that newcomers, which might not quite fit the mould of Hubski's dominant core group, will have a hard time finding their place in here as the community isn't large enough yet to quickly absorb diversity of thought that falls outside of the already established community. This might be a symptom of all small social media sites, so no need to take it personally Hubski : )I'm curious who you think all of these "founders" all over Hubski are? :)
Nobody is taking it personally! That's fine that people might not find hubski as a place they want to hang out. There are lots of places online, it's not hurting anyone. The biggest benefit of hubski is that it allows you to easily filter what things you want to participate in. hubski is also already VERY diverse with many different views. Anyway just hang out, have fun, post things, lurk, message people, talk about your childhood, share some nostalgia, make up some poetry, listen to hip hop, watch comedy videos, keep up with the news, take a nap, take 10 naps, feel guilty, then eat pancakes, create tags, follow tags, unfollow tags, follow people, unfollow people, shift your brain, be wrong, be right, unshift your brain, do you like sports, take lots of chances, never drive safely if you find yourself alone, tell me about your day, make up a story, help someone make up their story, take a trip, do things you wouldn't normally do, put yourself in another person's shoes, listen to jazz, write some comedy, create some drama, do 12 push-ups but tell everyone you did 50, wander around your town and look for hubski stickers, put some hubski stickers around your town, make friends, make enemies to help you realize who your friends are, make friends with your enemies, throw away everything you ever knew and pretend it's your first time hearing it, listen to a record your dad used to listen to, make. yourself heard, make yourself quiet, get out of bed, read more, watch more TV, play more video games, watch more movies, have an uncomfortable conversation, drink in irc, pretend you are fancy, welcome to Hubski.
Speaking of which eightbitsamurai where the hell did Hubskina go?
