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comment by _refugee_
_refugee_  ·  3397 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: It's Entirely Normal To Not Want Kids

Yes. I did. I very, very much wanted nothing more, at 18, than to marry my high school boyfriend and have kids with him. I didn't think it would be a bad thing if I got pregnant by him: it wouldn't be ideal, of course, but I/we were confident we would manage. (We had a scare or two, a late period, that's all, but when that happens and you are Young and Serious, you have all sorts of discussions.)

After we broke up, part of me hoped that he'd somehow gotten me pregnant because then I would still have a part of him to hold on to. Most of me didn't, but part of me thought, that wouldn't be too bad. Then I'd still have something.

Let's be clear: when I was 18 and beginning 19, I was a bit of soppy, dependent, insecure, naive, overly romantic, idealistic idiot with huge insecurity problems, huge control issues, and a pretty warped perspective on "good relationships." I was also a bit of a homebody, never drank smoked, partied or was even around any of that, and had never been allowed to wear a spaghetti-strap tank top let alone shorts that didn't go halfway down my thigh. I admired the Amish. I wanted to be a stay-at-home mom. I had probably never masturbated.

I was mega-mondo-hugely sheltered and I didn't know how much by a long, looooong yard.

Sure! I wanted kids!

.

In two years I was facing real life real hard and real up close and I didn't want a kid. Not wanting a kid made me think about what it would be like, to actually have one. The real and hard consequences. The more I thought, the more things I found that gave me pause.

I've just got a list as long as my arm about kids these days, and it runs the gamut from "I refuse to monitor a kid's Facebook/Twitter/social media" and "Cell phones" to "Money" and "Physical impact and cost" and "Global warming" and "Would I give a kid the issues my parents gave to me?" Some of them I can't see past, not by myself. I worry I'd teach my kids behaviors that would cripple them in the real world, set them up for hurt or failure.

So I know I'd need a good partner to offset that - but is that even fair? Can someone truly assuage all my worries and complexes enough for me to have a kid? I'm leaning towards probably not, ladies and gentlemen...but at least I know. At least I'm not 26 and married and going along with having babies because I never learned to ask myself what I wanted, and because I never broke down exactly how much it would cost or what it would require.





OftenBen  ·  3397 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    "Would I give a kid the issues my parents gave to me?"

I think of this in the much more global sense. What kind of world would I leave for a child?

I'm not confident that I will be able to build a better life for a child than my parents have built for me, and that's quite common in this generation. I have to try, but the odds suck, and likely the issues that I have will be worse for my children.

ghostoffuffle  ·  3397 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    At least I'm not 26 and married and going along with having babies

You make that sound so... shameful.

_refugee_  ·  3397 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I feel like if I hadn't faced some of what I did, I would not have considered what I wanted so thoroughly, and so run the risk of "going along" with something instead of following my own desires.

It's hard for me to articulate my emotions and desires. I often don't know what I want, and just "go along" with the situation that presents itself to see how it goes. In those cases I am interested enough to be curious, but otherwise a passive actor.

I don't want to be a passive actor in my life.

Like - I wouldn't have done it because it was something I knew I wanted, I would have just done it because, well, that's the next step in the big ol' Path.

ghostoffuffle  ·  3397 days ago  ·  link  ·  

See what you mean now.

"The unexamined life is not worth giving."

OftenBen  ·  3397 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's the

    going along with having babies

part that makes it sound that way. You are 'going along with,' acquiescing, rather than desiring or chasing after such a thing yourself. Defeat is certainly shameful.

ghostoffuffle  ·  3397 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Respectfully

Conflating defeat with shame is misguided; acquiescence with defeat even more so. An all-or-nothing mentality doesn't get one very far, especially in long-term relationships where give-and-take is the name of the game and acquiescence is often very much necessary.

As I said above, I wasn't sure I was ready for kids when we had our first. This could be taken for acquiescence- should I feel shame for it?

I also think there's a tangible difference between a hypothetical situation in which one isn't sure they want kids at all, never bothered to communicate this to their SO, presumably never bothered sounding out SO's stance, and just kind of goes along with it without exploring their own desires; and a real-world example where one knew they wanted kids but didn't know exactly when, knew their partner wanted kids earlier rather than later and validated this view, and decided that, in the absence of any immediate and disqualifying personal goals, might as well take the plunge despite lingering doubts.

Ain't nothing wrong with not wanting or having kids. Likewise, I like to think that my personal decision and the circumstances surrounding it doesn't somehow make me socially or morally inferior.

OftenBen  ·  3397 days ago  ·  link  ·  

My intent was only to explain why that particular phrasing sounded shameful, nothing more, and I apologize that it came across that way.

    I also think there's a tangible difference between a hypothetical situation in which one isn't sure they want kids at all, never bothered to communicate this to their SO, presumably never bothered sounding out SO's stance, and just kind of goes along with it without exploring their own desires; and a real-world example where one knew they wanted kids but didn't know exactly when, knew their partner wanted kids earlier rather than later and validated this view, and decided that, in the absence of any immediate and disqualifying personal goals, might as well take the plunge despite lingering doubts.

I agree, except for one point.

'Give and take' should have no part in the creation of a human life. It should not be a bargaining chip.

ghostoffuffle  ·  3397 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Fair enough. In terms of lives as bargaining chips: I'm not espousing this idea. Rather, I think "do both of us want kids" should be one of the few fundamental questions discussed by anybody looking to enter into a long term state sanctioned relationship. If you don't bother to establish that before jumping into the soup, there are probably plenty of issues that could very well scuttle the relationship before kids ever enter the equation. Hence, lives-as-bargaining-chips shouldn't ever be part of a successful partnership. Doesn't really fall under the "give and take" category. If you didn't agree to it in initial discussion, maybe that relationship isn't for you. If you never discussed it before entering the relationship, ditto.

OftenBen  ·  3397 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Agreed on all counts.