- Kane is the 27-year-old cocreator and now sole proprietor of Model View Culture, an indie website and print quarterly that publishes essays and interviews about tech culture and diversity. When Matter approached me about profiling Kane, I was already familiar with her site’s long, thoughtful articles, a few of which I’d read and passed around myself. I knew less about Kane, mainly that her name had surfaced in some controversies on Twitter. She often met with disagreements by using various profanities to describe her opponent, which seemed like an odd contrast to the tone and style of the site she ran. Her anger was part of what made people uncomfortable, because that’s what female anger does generally to men—even when it’s obviously and unqualifiedly justified.
Shanley Kane seems to embody the main issue that I have with what the feminist movement has become. My sister, a very vocal feminist, got her degree in sociology and enrolled in Teach For America for a two year stint. She's just shipped herself off to Vietnam to teach English a couple weeks ago, but I had a little conversation with her about things before she left. I brought up feminism, and she said, "Do you believe that men and women should be treated equally?". I responded, "Of course," to which she replied, "Well then you're a feminist!". I asserted that the movement has been somewhat (not entirely) hijacked by radicals, but she pointed out that such is true of most social movements. And... that's kind of how I see Shanley Kane, who, I admit, I'd never heard of prior to reading this article. For someone so familiar with PR, you'd think she'd realize that leaders of social movements would best be more humanist. And I don't really care who you are, if 50%+ of your tweets are complaints about anything and everything in your life, I'm not going to tune into that. I understand that she passionately crusades for a cause that is worth supporting, but the method in which she does it is just too off-putting. That was a really great article though, I found myself nodding in agreement as I reached the end. If anyone wants to tear me a new one, I'm totally down. P.S. I am a white male in my mid-twenties, and I will be the first to admit that being me is stupidly easy. And no, it's not fair.She described herself as someone who doesn’t like a lot of people, though she has a small circle of close friends and supporters she sees periodically.
I only have one exception to take and that is historical.
And I know it only because I am old. Feminism has never been less radical.
Feminists have never been more conciliatory and timid than they are today. I am just gunna throw that out there
Every right we have as women today had to be fought for. Not negotiated. I think people forget that.
And unfortunately many of those gains are being rolled back slowly. I was disheartened to learn yesterday that my home state (MI) has the fewest women in its legislature that it has had for two decades. No wonder we pass laws like the recent 'Rape Insurance' travesty. Our society seems all too content to let things like this take place (apathetic is probably more correct). This law enjoys almost no popular support among the electorate, but it's a law nonetheless because the radical right seems to care a lot more than the 90% of reasonable people who make up the population.
What people do not realize, I think, is that being nice doesn't work. Politely informing someone of the ways in which they are bigoted will literally do nothing. You will be ignored. I have far more sympathy towards angry activists than I do for their critics - and believe me, there are a lot of those.the main issue that I have with what the feminist movement has become.
A lot of people say this.
You're absolutely right, it's virtually impossible to find an objectively optimal balance of aggression and level-headedness. I admit that I am too easily annoyed, and even though I sympathize with the cause, it's difficult to find ways to be pro-active about it. Especially in Texas. Or maybe that gives me more opportunities? From everything I've seen, it's largely generational, and improving, but of course not at a fast enough rate. Maybe the best thing for me to do is continue to strive to exhibit equal treatment. I'm trying, but could always stand to try harder and be more mindful of the situation.
YES! I was just talking about this with my wife, about how people get so upset about so called "radical feminists". These feminists don't have a space to speak in most places. They do not get invited to speak about their issues, and get ignored if they ever do get the chance. So of course a disenfranchised group is being loud when they are ignored at every turn in every situation.
Sub low thirties for mid twenties, and you got me, too. I didn't read the article (yet), but as a general critique on anger, I have to agree with you. I want society to be better. I try to make it better. However, there are probably times when I'm inevitably part of the problem, although I may not be aware so. I takes a cool and calm voice to tell me why I'm wrong, and I'm all ears, even if I end up disagreeing. Everyone should be treated equally, but it's not always apparent to those in the power position when they're being abusive. If once observes an abuse or unfair treatment, and their reaction is essentially, 'You're an oppressive pig', then most oblivious oppressors will react in like manner (e.g., 'Shut up. I treat everyone the same, so quit your whining.'). It takes talent to point out injustice in a dispassionate, logical way. (The best example I've ever read in my life was this. It's brilliant and should be read by everybody.) To the wronged, it may seem obvious that they're being wronged. But it may not be so to the perpetrator. Educate rather then vilify; that's my position.P.S. I am a white male in my mid-twenties, and I will be the first to admit that being me is stupidly easy. And no, it's not fair.
If folks like Shanley Kane really wanted to fix the issues in tech with respect to women, they should shut the fuck up about how terrible it is to work in tech as a woman. Nothing equalizes that divide like having a looooot more women in tech. How far does one of these potentials have to google before they start reading how terrible it is working in our industry as a woman? And then they wonder why women aren't flocking to the industry, but as usual, it becomes the fault of men who have done no wrong other than to tell women like Shanley that they've never witnessed the sorts of behavior Shanely constantly bitches about. Terrible that. Having a different experience. That too must be the fault of the patriarchy... If Shanley ever wants to be taken seriously she and her ilk need to stop alienating the men who are basically on her side.
Hate to say it, but as a former English teacher who lived there, it's not a great country for feminism. I mean, I had girls say to me something along the lines of "I will be a good wife if you buy a nice house".She's just shipped herself off to Vietnam to teach English a couple weeks ago
Oh our whole family would agree with that statement, and my sister has a pretty good idea of what she's getting herself into. She's got a thing for overcoming adversity, and she's pretty good at it. I'm proud to be her kin. If anyone's interested, she's blogging about it.Hate to say it, but as a former English teacher who lived there, it's not a great country for feminism.
So I'm a white male, mid 30's and I encountered Kane on twitter before as she has had several relatively well known arguments with various tech people that I know. She does overreact, she makes her anger visible which causes people to react to the fact that she is angry rather than looking at what it is she is angry about. She is a controversial character and some in the community dismiss her and refuse to interact with her in anyway due to her use of profanity. But. She is not writing about things that affect me or things I have ever encountered. I would like to believe we are all equal but that is obviously not true and if she, in anyway, improves the situation for women within the IT sector then I hope she continues calling 'Bullshit' whenever she sees it. I don't think she is able to look at things in a non gender specific way and she probably sees sexism or discrimination in almost everything she interacts with but its quite possible that she will help to create a more equal society despite the fact she will be unable to recognize it herself.
This is something I wanted to bring up in my first reply but couldn't really find the words for. Later you mention: So here's the thing. At some point in your life whether or not you are a part of these groups in society it is inevitable you start noticing the big offenses, so to speak. Things that are by and large universally recognized as unacceptable. A person was assaulted. A person was denied treatment. These don't happen to everyone (though are honestly more widespread than most want to believe) and not usually to you or someone you know, so it's easy to detach yourself from the people that are affected and focus more on "the issue" - which is sort of a misnomer and brings us things like "reverse racism" and MRAs. But I digress... Then something happens. You start noticing these peculiar little behaviors that are difficult for everyone else to see. These usually take the form of slight insults, intentional or not, and they can come from anywhere. One of your friends calls someone a bitch or a pussy in your presence. Being talked over by the guys in the group. Men start taking up more room in buses for some reason. Waiters talk to you last. And it's these things that people don't notice, because they are learned behaviors that are so ingrained in our society so as to be seen as innocuous if not completely normal. Lest we forget the classic, "I'm not sexist. Some of my best friends are women!" or "I don't see you as a woman, you're just another person." Unsurprisingly, you can replace all forms of "woman" in these examples with "black " or "gay", "sexist" with "racist" or "homophobic", and hopefully you start seeing the pattern. This is when it starts becoming hard to talk about, and you start getting frustrated. Bringing me to my point: most people don't realize it, but there actually is sexism and discrimination in almost every interaction in our lives, big or small - if you're a woman or another minority, that is. How much of people telling you what happens to you isn't really a problem in spite of these lived experiences until you start getting mad?She is not writing about things that affect me or things I have ever encountered.
she probably sees sexism or discrimination in almost everything she interacts with
This is for you, too, longstocking, but I'm calling out nowaypablo because I want him to see it. Pabst, remember how I told you I called a guy a sexist pig at a 4th of July barbecue? I was trying to leave the BBQ with my brother and a female friend. I had driven there, but then drunk quite a bit. I still had my keys in my possession, however as I possess a remote key I can have the keys in my possession and as long as I'm sitting in the car, anyone can drive. Additionally, these keys were not visible. As we were leaving - I suppose I was leading my brother and friend through the house to leave - a tall guy stepped in front of me and told me I wasn't driving. I said "OK, I'm not driving," and kept walking. The guy continued to step in my way, refusing to let me leave. I didn't see what his issue was, as I had two people with me and I knew one of them was fine to drive. It was clearly visible that these two people were with me and were leaving with me. I actually don't even know why this guy assumed I was driving except that I was leading the way. My friend and my brother both stepped up. My friend said "That's okay, she's not going to drive," and asked me to give her my keys. I did so. The guy continued to refuse to let me leave. My female friend said "Look, it's fine, there's two of us here, one of us is okay to drive, it's okay" to the guy. He kind of talked over her. But then my tall, good-looking brother spoke up. "That's fine," he said. "It'll be fine." The guy looked at him and said "OK, you can drive." And that's when I said "Excuse me, you sexist pig, are you really saying he's fine to drive but she's not? You're a fucking asshole." Because you know what? Less than an hour ago I'd done two back-to-back shots with my brother. He'd had at least three beers (as had I). While he was a male and had a higher tolerance, I knew my brother was on his way to drunk. I was already pissed off at this random dude because hell, I hadn't seen him around the party, there was no way he knew how much I had had to drink so who was he to tell me I couldn't drive? (Regardless of whether it was true.) But on top of this, now, he was standing there ignoring my female friend who had had 3 beers over the course of 3 hours and was good to drive, my female friend who was telling him everything was fine. He refused to listen to two women but as soon as a drunk man spoke up and appeared to "fix" the situation, this other male was willing to stand down. I feel like that is a great example of the small sexism that most people don't notice. This guy didn't have context and knowledge that i did but he still felt comfortable telling me who could drive my car when I left to leave a party - sexist thing #1 - and then he chose the male over the female for no perceivable reason and, indeed, when the male was not legal to drive. Guy was a fucking douche, man.Then something happens. You start noticing these peculiar little behaviors that are difficult for everyone else to see. These usually take the form of slight insults, intentional or not,
I appreciate the concrete example of personal experiences with the types of problems that don't make national news, what longstocking called "peculiar little behaviors that are difficult for everyone else to see". If I encountered this type of shit, I'd be just as justifiably pissed as you were. But hey, we've gotta come with some synonyms/alternatives to "sexist pig". ...Misogynistic masterbator? Womanizing shit snorter? Chick dissing cheapskate? Please, all contributions welcome.
Fuck him. He's an ignorant, megalomaniac sack of shit. You should have driven your car straight into his tiny nuts, then swerved a bit and giggled "oops! i guess i shouldn't drive!" There's people like that everywhere Emiller (i'm working on it, goin' off Pabst), best not let it hang over you.
You could start calling me "Brogs Broganator" after Troegs Troegenator. Look at me doxxin' myself. Whatever, I link to my website in my bio. Anyway, "Brogs" and "Broganator" are very common nicknames for me IRL. Downside is it's a bit of a mouthful. I will also accept e-Miller though.
I went to college on an Athletic Scholarship for football, one of my HS friends went to the same college, only he was in the band. To say those band members treated me like shit would be an understatement. Should I also run around telling everyone about how terrible and downtrodden I was? I've had men tell me specifically they were scared of me because I'm a fairly large individual, and I guarantee you it affects the way both men and women react to me. Should I spend my time feeling victimized for it? When your point boils down to "there are always interactions that have some sort of bias, but it's nothing huge", then you have no point. We all deal with bullshit. ALL OF US. Being tall, being short, being fat, being ugly, being blonde or brunette, being the child of a rich parent, it all affects the way we interact with people socially, and the way they interact with us. But we don't go on crusades about how terrible it is, most people just fucking deal with it. outright anti-female bias is a problem, the issue is that it isn't the problem people like Shanley Kane are actually trying to fight. And the answer to the article title is the following: no, you don't speak up every. single. time. because when you don't pick and choose your fights, you spread yourself to thin to effectively do anything.