For some perspective about how much social stigma young men get for even being near bigger women ill share some stories from my youth. Freshman year in college there was a fat girl that liked my roommate. Our friend group constantly teased him about it even though he had no interest in her and constantly disavowed any association with her. My best friend once invited a girl who was bigger but who he still swears to this day had skinny friends. She to a party but instead of the skinny friends she shows up with 3 fatter friends. He was so embarrassed I think he hid in his room for most of that party and drank alone. Also the rest of the guys made fun of him for it for years after. Hes married and 30 and he still occasionally brings it up now more to laugh at himself but still. One of the guys hooked up with a fat girl in our house, forever earned the nickname "Big Game Hunter". Another guy had a thing for bigger girls, he became known as chubby chaser John. The funny part here is that even the "Forever Alone" socially awkward kids would take pot shots at guys that hooked up with fat chicks and the guys own insecurity about hooking up with bigger girls would exacerbate the problem. There was very much a culture of it never being acceptable to be with a bigger woman and that doing so would make you less of a man. In my experience for a young man to save face about hooking up with bigger girls it was important to always claim that it happened because he was drunk or to claim that it was just about getting some and then moving on to hotter friends. It was never socially acceptable to be satisfied with dating bigger women.
That is so terribly sad for the lonely boys and the bigger women. So sad that people are subject to teasing (adult form of bullying) and can't stand up to the bullies. It reminds me of that wonderful powerful scene from the Best Picture 1955 Oscar-winning movie Marty. You don't like her, my mother don't like her, she's a dog and I'm a fat, ugly man! Well, all I know is I had a good time last night! I'm gonna have a good time tonight! If we have enough good times together, I'm gonna get down on my knees and I'm gonna beg that girl to marry me! If we make a party on New Year's, I got a date for that party. You don't like her? That's too bad! Any ideas how to teach young people to think for themselves, to respect others, and care about people, not just the container they are stored in? Snoo - do you think these various guys from your youth mentioned above ever became compassionate mature human beings? What do you now think of the situations above that you described? What can be learned?That night, back in the same lonely rut, Marty realizes that he is giving up a woman whom he not only likes, but who makes him happy. Over the objections of his friends, he dashes to a phone booth to call Clara, who is disconsolately watching television with her parents. When his friend asks what he's doing, Marty bursts out saying:
Personally I dont think we should expect young people to challenge social norms completely openly and publicly. I think its OK to challenge them a bit around the outskirts, or privately, to test the waters and see how it goes without fully committing to it. I dont think you are going to eliminate social stigma around being fat, especially not in today's media centric world where people are more body and image conscious than ever before. But I do think that for guys that are willing to challenge the stigma a bit there are opportunities to get some early experience dating and get their social and emotional needs met while meeting someone elses. Because lets be honest young men aren't exactly all that desirable for women either, especially boys that are 15, dont have their money and transportation.
Dude your advice wasn't to make up excuses for why you're dating the chubby girls because your friends will tease you. It was to use chubby girls to build confidence so later you can date hot girls. Advising somebody to use others is a shit thing to do no matter how you want to look at it. It's not meeting her emotional and social needs it's just being an ass. It sure as hell isn't challenging stigma to date the chubby girl then say it's just practice. If you're going to date somebody it should be because you have an actual interest in them. One night stands are for the people you're uninterested in for anything more than a good time. If somebody wants to be an ass that's their choice but really let's not sugar coat it.
That's you are opinion, and you are entitled to it. To me it sounds like you describe dating as a one way street where the man is the aggressor and the woman is the victim and I don’t believe that’s at all an accurate representation. Both parties have to agree to the interaction and both parties can break it off at any time. So with the exception of rare cases where something illegal occurs both parties continue the interaction because they get something out of it both parties come out ahead. That doesn't mean you always get everything you want out of the interaction. Maybe she wants more emotional connection and he wants more physical attraction but at the end of the day both get something out of it or the interaction wouldn't have happened. I argue that doing something that others shame you not to do is challenging the social stigma even if you have to deny it later. If nothing else it gives you an opportunity to see the people you interact with as real people as opposed the stereotypes that others paint them as.
You're trying really hard to see using somebody as an okay thing to do. That's not at all how I describe dating, that's how I describe you pretending you're doing chubby girls a favour. Convincing somebody you actually like them enough to date them when in reality you are just using them is shitty thing to do. There are 3 kinds of people in this world 1) People who don't know they are assholes and legitimately think they are helping others/doing them favours. 2) People who know they are assholes, accept it and don't pretend like they are doing anybody any favours. 3) People who deep down know they are being assholes but try to justify it by claiming they are doing others favours. Type 1 and type 2 are something we have all been but type 3 is just an ass in denial. The worst kind. Edit: I'm just going to clarify here that the accepted understanding of "using somebody" is lying to somebody in order to get something. So don't come back with but like technically we are always using people since we benefit from interactions.
HA! I thought of that post when reading his comment. I remember a friend once saying, "there are two types of people in the world: 1. those that think there are two types of people in the world and 2. those that know better.
I use a significantly looser definition of "Dating" than you do. You sound like you have been burned in the past and you assume implied deception that I did not intend. One can be very open about having no serious or long term intentions and still "date" by my definition.
Heavy eye roll ,could you be more of a dudebro ? Like come on. Actually I hate getting attached and peace out when a guy seems to be getting feelings so not much chance to get burned. Going on a date implies you are interested in a person plain and simple. Do you think being honest would have worked ? Saying " Hey want to go on a date not because I'm into you but so I can practice talking to girls so I fumble less on the hot chicks ?" If being honest wouldn't have worked then guess what you're being an asshole in denial. You sound like you have been burned in the past
I was a bit tempted to take a cheap shot at that statement but I genuinely feel sorry that you cant let yourself feel attached to anyone. I never felt any hate or resentment for anyone I've been with. Regrets, sure, but never any resentment. Im curious if you think that no date is better than a imperfect date? I don't remember guys exactly lining up to date bigger girls in HS. Young breakups are a normal healthy thing. They happen for all sorts of good and bad reasons. IMO thats how young people learn to navigate the dating world and its good for young people to get as much experience as possible early on when they are more resilient and less capable of hurting each-other. I remember breakups for all sorts of weird reasons like not being cool enough, not having a car, or not getting the approval of the click leader. I don't see how "Im not all that attracted to you" Or "I like Suzie more" outside of the normal realm. If we ever get hubski titles you and @_refuge_@ can pitch in for my "Resident A-Hole" Title. Ill wear it with pride.Heavy eye roll ,could you be more of a dudebro ? Like come on. Actually I hate getting attached and peace out when a guy seems to be getting feelings so not much chance to get burned.
Going on a date implies you are interested in a person plain and simple. Do you think being honest would have worked ? Saying " Hey want to go on a date not because I'm into you but so I can practice talking to girls so I fumble less on the hot chicks ?"
If being honest wouldn't have worked then guess what you're being an asshole in denial.
Ya I'm not big on pity but you were smart to not take a cheap shot there since that feeling has nothing to do with past dates and everything to do with a dysfunctional childhood. Now you don't have to get into another spiral of denying being a dick. Not sure what your tangent about resentment is here but I go off on tangents to so...eh. Thing is there would be plenty of assholes, myself included, who I would rather pick because we have no problem admiting what we can be. You on the other hand refuse to accept that lying to somebody about being interested in them is a shitty thing to do.
I don't really think it matters why you asked someone on date if you go on it its most likely because you are seeking some sort of benefit. I remember when I was younger girls would occasionally go on dates with me to get free dinner or free booze. They didnt really have any interest in me and according to your definition that would have put me on the receiving end of asshole behavior. Despite that I always got something out of it otherwise I wouldn't have gone. A date was always good for a self esteem boost, minimal social boost, practice and sometimes I even got introduced to other friends that liked me more. Reflecting back they definitely got more out of it than I did but those dates were still preferable to not having any dates. Net effect was that both people came out ahead although some people did better than others.
A lot of people consider using guys for free stuff to be asshole behaviour. Also I feel like what you call dating really isn't anymore. It's hanging out and having casual sex which is a hell of a lot more honest. Dating implies actual interest beyond hanging out and screwing. They didnt really have any interest in me and according to your definition that would have put me on the receiving end of asshole behavior.