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comment by Nepotist
Nepotist  ·  880 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: August 17, 2016

You weren't running at a caloric deficit if you didn't lose weight. You are probably underestimating your caloric intake (very common), and probably overestimating caloric expenditure; biking doesn't actually burn that many calories per unit of distance. If you actually ran a 1500 calorie deficit for 2 months, or any significant deficit for that matter, you would have lost a very noticeable amount of weight. There are 3500 calories in a pound of fat, so at your claimed rate you would have lost ~25-35lbs in that 2 month span.

Weight loss (and weight gain) is not complicated and does not require keeping track of a lot of factors. Take in fewer calories than you burn, you lose weight. Take in more, you gain weight. Roughly equal intake and outtake, you stay the same. That's really is all there is to it.




kleinbl00  ·  880 days ago  ·  link  ·  

This conversation benefits from a fifteen mile bike ride, a ten minute guided meditation and a decent breakfast (a ham & turkey scramble, a grilled cheese sandwich and a tomato, if you must know). It allows me to approach it with the dispassionate perspective it deserves, rather than the vitriolic hellstorm I'm tempted to supply. I'm almost positive you intended to be helpful. I postulate that you applied the tried-and-true /r/fitness "when in doubt, bro it out"/fistbump/flex/regurgitation-of-dogma that qualifies as discourse on most fitness forums. And while I acknowledge and appreciate your attempt to be helpful, I think it's important that you know how toxic,offensive and hurtful your response was.

As ref mentions, I've been calorie counting since the iPhone 3G came out. That'd be eight years. Speaking as a reformed bulimic, allow me to assure you that I'm more aware of calories than anyone you've ever met. More than that, I know the calorie-in,calorie-out game better than anyone; speaking as someone who dropped 100 lbs in three months through the punishing application of aerobic exercise and starvation I can say with confidence that not eating for three days and running eight miles a day is good for three and a half pounds.

You might also be interested to learn that prior to fitness trackers even being widely available on smart phones (they were tricky before GPS), I had a Polar heart rate meter. And while I freely acknowledge that their measurements are imperfect (dear MapMyRun: why, exactly, do you count calories backwards when I'm at a traffic light?), they're also not wildly inaccurate. I weigh 206 lbs. I'm going between 11 and 20 mph (I beat a moped home yesterday - I'm not exactly approaching this in a leisurely fashion). I do it for between an hour and an hour ten each way. For added fun, I do it on a flat bar fitness bike hauling 15 lbs of gear. I invite you to look up the caloric expenditure for that and tell me how much your estimates disagree with mine. Only not mine. UnderArmour's, and before that, Strava's, and before that, Runkeeper's.

Finally, it might interest you to know that I've increased my daily calorie intake by maybe 500 or so on average from before I was biking 30 miles a day. That's above the 1800 that MyFitnessPal thinks I need to lose a pound a week. Which I don't; I know that flies in the face of gymbro dogma but the fact of the matter is, calories in minus calories out does not equal fat loss. Thermodynamics isn't the endocrine system. Sure - if all things are working perfectly you will lose weight when you restrict calories. Take it from me, though - those extra 500 calories are what I need to not feel light-headed on the way home. That's the sort of margin I'm living in. And when I'm not biking, I'm running about three miles a day, six or seven days a week.

Don't fret your acolytic little head, though - I'm actually under care for endocrine disruption, and have been for six years now. I know there are some sects of the One True Faith where glandular issues aren't takfir and one can still experience issues outside of "calories in, calories out" without causing apostasy. Perhaps your faith is one of those, in which case you'll be happy to know that in 2010 my cortisol levels were actually above the measurable scale of an adrenal fatigue saliva test. I dropped 30 lbs once my endocrine system was under artificial pharmaceutical support.

But that support is failing, probably due to increased stress, and I find it frustrating, and I expressed it.

I would have told you all of this had you asked. Had you inquired about any of the above I would have gladly shared. Instead you assumed, and now we're having this awkward conversation. Rather than wondering whether or not I might understand what calories are, based on my discussion of them, you presumed that obviously I'm an idiot. Rather than questioning my health, you questioned my truthfulness, my observational skill and my intelligence. More than that, you just threw a "you're not trying hard enough" face-slap at a self-professed former bulimic. Highest mortality rate of any mental disorder, including chronic depression. Just so you know.

I recognize I'm a rare bird. One in two hundred, one in three hundred depending on who you ask. Women are three times more likely to have an eating disorder. Shit, according to the DSM-IV men can't even have an eating disorder because our periods can't be disrupted (look it up). But the next time you stumble across an internet forum and someone professes an eating disorder and difficulty losing weight, think twice before saying "toughen the fuck up."

Please.

I'll put this simply - if someone tells you that they were having a hard time losing weight, despite counting calories and adding a spinning class five times a week, your instinct should be to wonder what else is going on. It shouldn't be to doubt their word. And depending on how you count, I've added between two and four spinning classes a day to my life with no measurable effect.

The above discussion was for your benefit, and for the benefit of others on the Internet you may come across. Ending it here, and forever, is for mine.

_refugee_  ·  880 days ago  ·  link  ·  

In the Name of Brodin, Wheymen

P.S. Don't you just love it when a stranger tries to tell you some Truth about your Body, everyone? Anyone? Last week my girlfriend's coworker gave her a speech about how rare Celiac disease is in the population because she let loose her allergy to gluten. And then, the clouds in the sky broke open, and the light of the Sun shoneth upon her, and lo! She ate of the loaves and the fishes, and her hunger was satisfied, and she said "Verily! This is the true coming of the Lord!"

....actually, I believe she told him he could tell her whether she was allergic to gluten after force-feeding her Benadryl to keep the hives down and wiping her ass after her explosive shits for the next 3 days.

And then he apologized.

arguewithatree  ·  880 days ago  ·  link  ·  

i wanna hang w/ your gf she sounds awesome

_refugee_  ·  880 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm pretty biased, but yeah.

_refugee_  ·  880 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Hey dude,

I'm just going to interject here that KB calorie tracks daily and has been for years. I know this because I'm his stalker, duh. Not to mention that it's quite possible for an eating disorder to have long-term side effects on the human body. And let's not even consider what all else he might have wrong with him. I mean, dude's a little grungy. He's got that ponytail going...could have worms, maybe, you know, even?

Of course, you don't know KB as well as I do, or his eating habits, or exercise habits, or past history with food, or any of those things.

But I can assure you he already knows about CICO and that there are 3500 calories in a pound of fat.

Your comment would be totally in place if it was on r/loseit, and honestly, if you'd said it there, I'd probably have upvoted and moved on. It's just...KB's not a dumbass or a dilettante when it comes to cal counts, weight loss, exercise, etc. So I'm just gonna raise up and try to let you know as politely as possible, your comment here is coming across condescending as all hell.

And maaaybe I just saved you a verbal whipping by doing this. (But not if you get defensive about what all I've just said. Cuz I'm trying to be nice here, I really am, and it's not something I even try very often.)

Nepotist  ·  880 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I wasn't expecting my comment to blow up like it did. I would reply to kleinbloo, but he blocked me. I could write out a long detailed response and PM it to him (Edit: no, I probably couldn't have done that since apparently the block function does include a PM mute) but frankly I know he won't listen based on how hard he blew up after my initial comment. So I'll just write a response to you and anyone else in the thread that hasn't blocked me can just read this:

Kleinbloo's endocrine issues are likely causing him extreme fatigue when he eats at a caloric deficit, something I would think is especially likely since he mentioned having to increase intake by about 500 calories in order to not feel light-headed after riding. That is understandable, and I admit that I started writing my standard boilerplate "it's all about CICO" response as soon as I saw his statement that he was eating at an extreme deficit and not losing weight, without reading the rest of his comment first.

However, regardless of the effects his endocrine system are having on his body, they are not allowing him to eat at a sustained caloric deficit without losing weight. It simply isn't possible, and no matter how long and detailed of a response you write, that won't change. That ~15 miles/day of riding that he mentioned (1000 miles over the last 2 months)? The 500 calories he added would be about right to cover that extra burn; for most people cycling burns between 25 and 40 calories per mile, or around 375-600 calories for his mentioned daily riding.

His medical issues may make it difficult, or maybe even unsafe, in a way that isn't fair to him, to lose weight. I'll admit my initial comment was rushed and insensitive since I didn't take the time to read his entire comment before writing mine. His endocrine issues may be reducing his caloric expenditure, making it so that the recommended intake from MyFitnessPal is too high. While he may have legitimate medical issues that make his case somewhat different and may even make an attempt at weight loss inadvisable, those issues do not, and cannot, give him free-energy-from-nothing superpowers.

The above discussion was for your benefit, and for the benefit of others on the Internet you may come across. Ending it here, and forever, is for mine.

_refugee_  ·  880 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Hey man,

1) you were rude,

2) you're now saying it was OK to be rude because you're still right, because oh by the way

3) you still think you're more of an expert on someone's body than the person who lives within it.

This isn't a world where you have to choose between being right, or being liked, not usually at least, for sure, but in this moment, with your words, you are seriously narrowing your options.

In a website built around community, are you sure the choice you're making is the best one for you - the one you wanna make?

Also, there's this thing known as a public apology. You know. For shit done in public.

But if you were going to apologize, what would you even say? Because this is you buckling down. Nothing else.

OftenBen  ·  880 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Have I told you how much I value you lately?

_refugee_  ·  878 days ago  ·  link  ·  

No, tell me again.

Just send bl00 like, internet chocolates or something.

Nepotist  ·  879 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The only thing I really did was tell the guy that it really is all about calories in vs. calories out. He could have just politely disagreed and moved on, but he got butthurt and went on this long self-absorbed rant about how tough he has it and how he's the special case to which this law doesn't apply. But it does apply to him just like it does to everyone else, and everyone else has their own set of challenges in life too, and that definitely includes me.

I'm guessing you're friendly with him based on the way you're sticking up for him, and that's fine, but I don't know him, and right now all I see is someone that overreacted, and to whom I definitely don't feel the need or desire to apologize.

_refugee_  ·  879 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Cool beans

ThatFanficGuy  ·  877 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Hey, check my earliest comments out if Hubski allows it. If not, look for my earliest post. I had the same experience you do right now.

Stick around. You'll have something to learn.

Nepotist  ·  877 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
Nepotist  ·  877 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Are you talking about the 'Introducing Metaphoria' post? It does sound like an interesting series, but I don't really see the similarity.

I do feel like I could have been more tactful with my initial comment. But I've also learned I strongly dislike the kinds of people that take unintended offenses and try to frame them as personal attacks, which is why I have no intention to try to reconcile.

But you are correct, Hubski is a great site with a lot to offer. The community is top-notch and the site mechanics give the power to the user to craft their own experience, instead of letting other users dilute it. I really need to come around more often.

ThatFanficGuy  ·  876 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's odd: I can't find the post I meant to have you see.

Short version is: I made a post about something. kb came in and told me something about the topic of the post. I said (here and forth paraphrases) "You're confusing some things". kb went "I have awards, I'm recognized for those things I talk about etc., so curses onto you". I went ballistic, in a form far less polite than what you've replied with to ref. Soon enough mutual muting ensued.

Since then I've learned that kb sometimes delivers better than your take-out pizza. The guy's as soft as sandpaper on the outside, but he has something behind that big mouth of his that's worth looking at.

oyster  ·  878 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    The above discussion was for your benefit, and for the benefit of others on the Internet you may come across.

No it was not. It was for entirely your own benefit. The reason nobody respects your opinion is because it's so incredibly simplified that you didn't even bother to finish reading up about his situation before throwing the standard statement every fake internet expert makes. You even admit that in your post.

Had you wanted to be helpful or actually given a shit about him at all you would have ask him if he had spoken with a professional who could maybe figure out a better plan that would work for his situation. In other words simply saying this is how it should work and all the info on the internet revolves around that so maybe consider seeing somebody who can give you a plan that fits you and your issues. People who care about someone direct them to professionals who can assess all the information and give someone detailed help. What you gave was just a standard reply from somebody who thinks they have the world figured out and want everybody to know.

Devac  ·  880 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    That ~15 miles/day of riding that he mentioned (1000 miles over the last 2 months)? The 500 calories he added would be about right to cover that extra burn; for most people cycling burns between 25 and 40 calories per mile, or around 375-600 calories for his mentioned daily riding.

I'm hardly an authority on the subject (read: I just did the maths after looking some stuff up in encyclopaedia assuming that burnt values per mile you gave are correct) these numbers work for 6 pound loss for pure fat that has a caloric value of 9000kcal/kg. Adipose tissue on the other hand is roughly 7700kcal/kg. You seem to be using the first value as in:

  600 kcal * 60 / (9000kcal/kg) = 4.00 kg = 8.80 lbs

375 kcal * 60 / (9000kcal/kg) = 2.50 kg = 5.50 lbs

lost weight in 60 days (hence the 60 in numerator) is closer, and with much lower range, to the value klein reported. However, for adipose tissue it should be (again, I'm taking this from PWN encyclopaedia):

  600 kcal * 60 / (7700kcal/kg) = 4.68 kg = 10.29 lbs

375 kcal * 60 / (7700kcal/kg) = 2.92 kg = 6.42 lbs

Again, I am in no way qualified and any corrections would be much appreciated. Not to even mention that I'm uncertain if I got the meaning behind the quote correctly. Either way, as far as I am aware for now, klein's reduced weight is pretty consistent, although in the lowest quarter for both ranges, with these values. Depending on the method of measuring the weight and its accuracy on top of that. I'll end it by saying that if thermodynamics taught me anything, this model is too broad of an approximation. Klein is not an isolated cylinder after all ;).

kleinbl00  ·  879 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Fifteen miles each way. thirty miles a day. Not fifteen. Ref and OB can confirm; they get tedious little alerts each time.

But they shouldn't.

Because this whole tedious affair makes me want to delete my account.

Jesus fucking christ.

_refugee_  ·  878 days ago  ·  link  ·  

D:

OftenBen  ·  879 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Your calves probably look like they're cut from granite tho.

kleinbl00  ·  879 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's just it. They don't. It looks for all the world like I'm riding the bus.

I put 11 hours a week into sweating my ass off and getting hit by cars and it has had zero physical effect.

Becausr I'm a liar or some shit.

Fuck you, Internet.