One of my favorite and well-put together poems I've written :
When you learn to shut up,
We'll see how loud this place is.
The overflowing boxes on the floor
Say there's unfinished business.
Dismal people sitting around us
Are done with this day.
Heavy eyes stare at bare walls
All while their coffee gets cold.
You're still talking to me
But I can't fathom
Where you're finding the air.
You've captured that experience pretty perfectly. Let's talk about this situation. Can I assume you're the speaker of the poem? This poem screams gender issues at me, but I imagine the speaker of the poem and the speaker in the poem could be any gender. What do you think?
It's interesting you take gender issues from the poem, I never even hought about it when I was writing it, you have a good point though and I like looking at my so-called works through the eyes of someone else. And yes you are correct that the speaker could be any gender. What I took out of this poem, and based most of the writing on, is something like a 'dull date'. The speaker probably has better places to be than this coffee shop in the first place, and is pretty off-put that the speaker's date won't stop talking.
I will assume that this is written from a personal experience -- which makes it more interesting and easier to talk about. OK, I don't want to talk about poetry so much as I want to talk about content. I know a few women and many men who do not have a lot of what I call "awareness of the other." To create more awareness of the other, I often ask people I'm meeting to bring a me a question. I will ask this of people whether I'm a new acquaintance or have known them for years. I met one new acquaintance recently. He was part of another friend's drink club and he thought I might be interesting to get to know... I thought. At our first coffee date, he did a lot of talking. I asked a lot of questions - so I take responsibility for that. I'm curious. But he went on a bit like the human in your poem. At the end, he said, "That was fun. Let's do it again."
I said, "OK, but I have a request. Bring me a question." He said, "I don't know. That's odd. Can't we just talk."
I said, "Sure. OK. Questions aren't for everyone."
He gave me his poetry book and, earlier, had sent me links to the documentary films he was working on.
The next day, he texted me. Again, I didn't say "Ask me something about me that you might be curious about." I said, "Bring me a question." -- but it was a disappointing question. In any event, the second chat went much like the first. I'm a great audience if the curiosity is mutual, but I think I'm done in this case. _refugee_ might be interested in your poem and this discussion.I have a question. What do you think about my poetry and films?
I hate it when someone (usually on an online dating site or blind date) says, "I'm an open book. Ask me anything." Frequently, this comment is really a cop-out. It appears that the speaker is forthcoming, honest, and has nothing to hide. However, usually, you don't know the person well enough when they make such a comment to actually assess if this statement is probably true. More importantly, such a remark places the onus of the entire conversation solely on the other party. "I'm an open book, but I can't be bothered to determine what's actually interesting about myself to disclose casually, or to spark your interest." "I'm an open book if you interrogate me, but I don't have anything to offer up un-solicited." It is a lazy way to start a conversation. I have always wanted to ask someone who said such or similar to me, "OK. Tell me whatever it is you don't want me to know." I think the response would interest me more than "What is your favorite color/food/animal/clothing material?" for sure. It would also put the person who is too lazy to drive a conversation right back in the front seat. And if anyone were ever honest answering, I would learn tons. I have not had to ask this yet. I admit, however, to inquiring, "What is your trauma?" and "Why are you here?" of recent would-be paramours. I do challenge people. But I would rather hear the interesting answers to the hard questions than know what your middle name is. And I certainly will not do you the favor of 'making the conversation happen' if you cannot even come up with an icebreaker but merely shove it back on me with "I'll say anything, so long as you ask." It's like "I can write about anything....but I need you to give me a prompt." Bitch, don't say you can write about anything. If I need to give you a prompt, you can't. - At least, you can't deal with a non-parametered situation. I understand, the hardest topic is "anything." But you should know what is safe to go with, conversationally, at least; and you should be interested enough that you willingly offer information, not make me pick it out of you like the flesh from a crab. Sure interrogation is satisfying in its own right but I'm not impressed by people who make me do all the work. /rant "Bring me a question" says, "tell me what you find interesting." it says, "bring something to the conversation." it says, "think a little bit, instead of pretending to be an open book when really, you just can't be arsed to come up with one single thing." I like that approach, too. It is less offensive (in the sports, offensive/defensive, as well as social, way). I have got tired of dating people who aren't worth it. I choose being a little offensive over not. I suppose I have an aggressive dating strategy. I tell you what though, it can help save time a lot. Edit II: Your man's return question was a cop-out, definitely. I can only assume he was intimidated and/or scared. He was afraid of investment and revealing. He took the easy route. (And self-flattering, by the way, if he has the awareness to know if he is any good at writing and his pursuits.) The thing is I find it scarier to ask how someone likes my poem, than something like "What it is you do not like about me?" I accept that not everyone may like or understand me. I don't always like or understand myself. But my poetry? Ah, that's a blind spot. Sometimes I send my poems that I like a lot to people who I know will be critical because I know I like them too much, and I need someone to bring me back down to earth about them. The ardor springs from two factors: a) actual qualities in the poem; b) how recently I wrote it. But as for me I know myself too well (and work to continually know myself as honestly as possible) to suffer much similar blindness. It is not so hard to hear what others think my flaws are, (I know I have plenty and that is not a shock) as it is to send someone a poem I wrote that I love, and hope (but fear!) that they will or will not like it.
Sometimes, as I began to get interested in someone. More specifically, I have asked, "What are you most afraid to tell me?" So much more to respond to....Tell me whatever it is you don't want me to know."
I've asked that.Your man's return question was a cop-out, definitely.
I wouldn't say a cop-out so much as evidence of his true focus: himself.
I'm curious what kinds of questions people bring you. The first thing that came to my mind was "what is the maximum number of regions defined by N lines in the plane?"To create more awareness of the other, I often ask people I'm meeting to bring a me a question
Let's say I'm "the other." That question would help you create more awareness of my ignorance of recurrence. Now if my ignorance of recurrence is a decisive factor in whether we continue chatting, then you have some important information. People bring all kinds of questions. I meet once or twice a year with a man who long ago was my Grade 8 drama teacher and is now a mentor of sorts. He brought this question, "Why are we still friends?" Another time, I was asked these three questions. Some people have a lot of trouble coming up with questions for another person. You've been around here a long time. Do you remember this story and the ensuing conversation?
So, me personally reading this poem: a) I think that the narrator does not really put off a gender to me which I think is a positive, here, because I think anyone can read this poem and put themselves into it as the narrator. so b) It was very easy to see myself as the speaker in this poem. Taking b) as how I interacted with this poem I actually conceptualized: c) A longer-term relationship that was coming to an end/downsliding due to one person's (the narrator's) frustrations with the other. Certainly, a bad date. I just saw/felt a more extended relationship, I think, than maybe you feel in the poem.
I wanna touch on your c) for a moment. I look at this poem, and because I don't have a SO, I imagine it as a date, no tied up relationship. Are you in a long-term relationship, and do you think that's why you see it as a long-term relationship? I'd love to see how other people conceptualize what type of relationship the narrator has with the person they're writing about. Maybe for most people it directly relates to if they are having that type of relationship in their real life, or maybe it doesn't connect at all.
See, that's the funny thing. I haven't been in a long-term relationship for a long time. Nothing that got to six months in the past almost-two-and-a-half years. That relationship was exactly 6 months. (I also never wanted it to be permanent.) Before that, remind another year or thereabouts, and that was my last "long-term significant relationship," I guess. Usually, I can date someone for about a month. Right now I find it pleasant I am seeing someone who is just about to pass that mark. I think I find the level of detest(-ment?) and animosity in this poem to signal me more towards long term than one bad blind or first date. "When you learn to shut up" - sounds like the narrator knows the other person well enough to find their incessant speech habitual, not momentary. I also wouldn't probably feel so resoundingly negative about a first date unless it was truly awful. "I can't fathom/where you're finding the air," to me implies kind of that the narrator wishes the other party would choke on their words and die for lack of oxygen a little bit. I don't usually detest first dates that much. But at the end of a relationship? Oh yes.
You bring up a great point with the detestment of the narrator towards the other person. Re-reading though the poem I'm constantly questioning the level of cynical-ness in the narrator. I think our determination of the mental states of both of the characters can dramatically change and alter how we percieve the poem. It's freaking awesome I'm having such great conversations and being introduced to cool insights on something I created. Definitely a neat feeling
Trust me, I can talk all day about poetry :) I would shoot you a link to posts-refugee tags=poetry to show it, but for some reason my attempts to make that link work aren't, well, working. I can talk about words and writing all day long and be really happy! I was really pleased when I read your post. It was better than I (a cynic) feared. It surprised me. And that's great, and makes me happy. Everyone will interpret your art differently. My brother once read a poem where I thought the narrator was clearly female. At the end he said he was confused because at first, he assumed the narrator was male. That's literally just a factor of his own life experience impacting how he approaches a story. Can't control that - but gotta be aware of it.
Hmm... At first, I took this more to be about coffee shops, maybe a customer talking to a new owner who is maybe dreaming a bit too much about the future, rather than finishing unpacking the boxes. But looking at it now, the description resly is like the speaker is bored. You captures that really well, congrats.