Been arguing with my roommate about this, and I'd like to ask Hubski's opinion on the matter.
Essentially, my roommate is of the mind that stripping devalues/dehumanizes a woman. I asked him if women who strip should receive guilt, what about the men who watch them? He responded by saying, quote, "it is unhealthy for both the person viewing, and the person dancing/stripping.
I've always subscribed to the belief that if you're doing something, as long as it isn't hurting anyone, then more power to them. To that end, I don't think stripping hurts the woman doing it at all. This is, of course, granted that the woman stripping has chosen to do so, of course. It is her body, and if it makes her some money, more power to her.
That being said, I would like those more enlightened to me, women prioritized, to give their thoughts on the matter as well.
It depends entirely on the environment. I've dated two strippers, installed a recording studio in a strip club, and used to be in a stripper-heavy cadre back in college/post-college. I can only speak to my experience which I don't pretend to be universal. You can't have alcohol in strip clubs in Seattle. Which means you either need to be plastered before you get there or you go sober. Which means your excusable drunk behavior is now inexcusable sober behavior. It's still your behavior. Strip clubs in Seattle are grim as a consequence. The men who go to them are desperate and sad. The strippers are therefore taking off their clothes for desperate and sad men. Dated one of those girls. It broke her. She did not relate well to men. In speaking with the guy who owned the club I installed in, he mentioned that he'd only operate a male strip club becuase of the dynamic - female strip clubs were entirely too predatory. Compare and contrast: In Portland, you don't need any particular license to have strippers in your club. Which means you can be peacefully sipping a Budweiser at a sports bar and some girl will walk in with a boom box and start stripping. Been there, done that. I once hit fifteen "strip clubs" in one night without even trying. The dynamic, as a consequence, isn't wholly different from Seattle. I have never dated a stripper from Portland, but I've talked to a few. Totally different vibe from Seattle strippers. I dated an Albuquerque stripper. Rules are somewhere between Seattle and Portland. Hard to get a read on that situation; she was pretty fucked in the head but I don't think that was the stripping. I think she was just fucked in the head. That's something else to consider - stripping doesn't necessarily attract emotionally whole, rational women. Finally, there's Vancouver. Drinks are A-OK. There's actually a club up there that used to do female strippers monday-thursday, then male strippers friday and saturday. They'd charge women a tiny amount of cover to get in, then open it to men after 11pm and charge them a ruinous cover charge. Which they got. Because walking into a room where women have been watching naked men grind for hours is just too target-rich an environment to ignore. Bloody genius business model. Is stripping a "Bad Thing?" I think it's a psychologically perilous thing. Some women can do it no problem and have the ook just wash off (there is ook - I think we can agree on that). It has been my experience, however, that the women who tend to get into stripping are not necessarily of a group with those who can shrug it off. Thus the perception.
In terms of the act of stripping/viewing stripping, I don't really think there's anything that inherently degrades either party involved. As long as you believe sex and sexuality aren't shameful and degrading by nature, then there's no real reason to treat any type of sexwork otherwise. On the other hand, if you picture a common (stereotypical?) stripclub scene; shady area, working for the man, women which are hard on their luck, and sleazy regular customers-- then yeah, I can totally see how that becomes a degrading environment. I don't think it really is inherently connected with stripping though, just when you have people working to make ends meet in something they'd just as soon give up if they could. Add to that the fact that those environments will get exploitative in recognition of that fact: that people are stuck there. Then you're gonna be dehumanized and devalued. It's an economic symptom. Someone working in a cubicle farm could be prostituting themselves just as much as any stripper, but because the latter deals with other stigmas we're just acutely aware of it.
This is an extremely complicated issue. I personally steer clear of making blanket statements concerning "morally gray" areas. This is ultimately a question of both individual psychology and societal norms, which play into each other in a manner that I wish social scientists the best of luck in untangling. Would also love to hear from some women as well.
In this conversation I am only an observer. I have nothing to offer except contradicting articles and newspaper anecdotes. I don't think that taking your clothes off for money is bad in the same way that I don't feel that lying is necessarily. Often both can be. But I'd also like to celebrate sexuality and freedom; I don't believe the base act of taking your clothes off and dancing sexy is bad. Does it become bad when you enter money into it? Well if you are talented shouldn't you get some sort of recognition for that? Or shouldn't you be allowed to ask for it, at least? Money is one kind of recognition/reward. However, I think a lot of people dehumanize strippers because of what they do, both the actual act of stripping, and beacuse of what the people who go to stripping are looking for. I think some people get off on anonymity of visiting strippers; after all you don't head into a strip club with a specific stripper in mind that you want to see, right? It's just "strippers." Any 'un 'ull do. So I'm tied.
Depends on the person. There are a lot of strippers out there who have regular customers just like a dentist or a hair dresser. You'd be surprised how easily some pathetic sorts are fooled into thinking that "she really likes" them. It would be funny if it weren't so sad. (It's still kinda funny.)...after all you don't head into a strip club with a specific stripper in mind that you want to see, right? It's just "strippers." Any 'un 'ull do.
Strippers try very hard to get you to be a "regular." I have friends that get phone numbers from strippers only to find that all they do is talk about when they're working. It's brilliant. But you are absolutely right, many men become "regulars" and you can always recognize them at the clubs.
I've known two women that have stripped. They were both fiercely intelligent human beings. During the time that they stripped they used a lot of drugs. From what they related to me, many strippers are using drugs and/or alcohol while they are working. Speaking personally, I don't think I could dance naked in front of strangers or on their laps for money without some self-medication. That makes it difficult for me to think that it isn't often a bad thing for the person practicing it. I doubt there is a universal truth to be found here, but there maybe be some patterns that are difficult to dismiss.
Although I am in the 'stripping is shameful camp', I cannot say with confidence that everyone would feel that way. There are so many behaviors that were once widely considered shameful that no longer are. Although I cannot personally fathom it, I am willing to accept that for some individuals, they could practice it without shame.
what is it about stripping that is shameful to you? why do you think that societies views have changed on this for the better?
It's not the stripping, so much as the stripping for money. I believe it's the differential in incentive between the payer and the performer that bothers me the most. There is a money-based power structure behind it that is difficult to discount. I'm not sure if society's views have changed for the better.
It's just a job that is basically pretty crappy. Maybe there are some better forms of stripping jobs and the pay may be good, but generally not a job to boast about. Like a trash collector. I don't know many folks that would aspire to trash collecting. For some though, that crappy job fits their situation. I worked at Mickey D's in high school. I wasn't taking pride in emptying the fryer. It was a job I was not proud of. Plain and simple. It paid terribly too.
This reminds me a lot of the concept of 'job ghettos' that my mother introduced to me a few days ago. There are a lot of jobs usually considered either crappy or low-status by the population at large where the people in it are not a representative sample in some way or another - the administrative assistants in the College of Science, where I'm a student (and graduating in two weeks), are almost entirely female; construction is almost entirely male; the surgical techs at the hospital where my mother had her surgery were almost entirely non-white; and so on. Stripping is a crappy, low-status job (as much as the 'sex workers citizen brigade' would like to deny it, they are always going to be a low-status, crappy job viewed with disdain, in part because you need no qualifications other than anywhere from good looks to a functioning set of genitals), and it's almost entirely female.
The first girl I made out with (in middle school at age 12, I think) went on to be a day shift stripper out by the airport. Classy. But at least she got her cross eyes fixed. Anyway she was definitely not from a good family. I can't imagine many strippers come from great, stable homes. That said, that doesn't make stripping morally objectionable. I think it just attracts a certain type of woman, just like strip clubs attract a certain kind of man. I have a couple friends who love dating strippers; they are the friends who seem to be the most afraid of intimacy and commitment of any of the guys I know well. Definitely not a coincidence.