Oh shit you guys, it just got real! Started advertising my senior project today-- check it. (Background image credit to Hans Kylberg on Flickr, some rights reserved.) I'm actually really excited for this, in contrast with literally everything else that I'll be doing for the next 2 months. So at least I have that ray of light, right? Also the whole college thing I guess In other news, my romantic situation has reached relative stability, sort of. I have learned (by way of a couple friends) that the girl I'm interested in isn't interested in a relationship, and mostly everyone's advising me to leave that shit alone. So I've been continuing to flirt with her, enjoy her company, etc., and nothing more. I do, however, have one friend that's urging me to tell her how I feel-- I'm inclined to take his advice because my feelings have given rise to the foolish and unfounded hope that somehow we'll end up together again in spite of her current position. I can't say why he wants me to do it, and apparently neither can he, but that influence is difficult to ignore. Overall I just can't figure out what the right thing to do is; I waffle back and forth between thinking that I should, because the only reason I don't want to is cowardice, and that I shouldn't, because the only reason I do want to is blind wishful thinking. I thought paying attention to cognitive biases would help me avoid irrational actions, but as it turns out any decision I could make (at least in this situation) could be informed by shitty 'reasoning'. GAH
Alright. So I'm going to attempt to be real without telling you to go out and rape. Let's see how that goes. (it's only 3am). Girls like...certain guys. Call them the assholes or whatever. Say "girls don't like nice guys". It's not exactly that but it's what those statements are talking about. There are just some guys that I wouldn't ever be sexually or emotionally/relationshippy interested in. Yes they can be the nicest guy. Yes they can have everything I would ever want. But there has got to be some sexual chemistry. And I don't mean sexual as in literal penis in vagina sex sex. Just like...sexual in nature. Whenever I hear the words "tell her my true feelings", I cringe. No guy has ever told me his "true feelings" until waaay later. There isn't like a couch scene where you watch a movie and then go "hey I like you" and then you live happily ever after. That is only going to result in awkwardness and force both of you to acknowledge the elephant in the room. In fact, I would argue that if any guy I ever dated or slept with had started with "hey I want to tell you something...I like you", I would not have dated or fucked him. You know you like her. Trust me, she knows you like her. If the sexual relationship emotional shit isn't there, then it simply isn't there. You can't force it and trust me, even if you could, you wouldn't want it. Relationships and hook ups and all that fun stuff is only fun stuff when it happens naturally. Furthermore, that "interested in a relationship" line is bullshit. Ignore it...sort of. I have used that phrase so many damn times when I wasn't interested in a guy. However, I have never gotten into a relationship when I wanted one. I have always unanimously (me, my heart, my brain, and my lady-bits that is) decided that relationships are bad and there are better things to spend my time and energy on. But I find myself in them anyways and, for the most part, it's been pretty great. So, she could be saying "yo, I'm not interested in him" or "yo, this isn't the time or place for a relationship but if something good enough pops up unexpectedly I'll probably forget I said that." So here's my advice: 1. Leave that shit alone. It isn't worth it. You are going to look back on this and laugh one day. Trust me. Fully expecting you not to do that.... 2. Stop playing the friend game. Don't be mean to her and don't ignore her outright. Simply stop chasing her for a week. Fuck the words. Fuck the over-thinking. Don't call her. Don't text her. Don't snapchat her a picture of your dick or whatever you kids are doing these days. See what she does. My current boyfriend chased me for like 3 weeks and I spontaneously replied to his texts and occasionally our free time lined up and we got to see each other. I wasn't that interested and I was really fucking busy and quitting my job and stuff. I had higher priorities. But the second my phone stopped buzzing ever morning, noon, and night... I texted him. I texted him because I missed talking with him and because I no longer took it for granted that he would text me. 3. Now, if she starts hitting you up, that's a good sign. If she doesn't -> #1. 4. Assuming you are either ignoring #3's direction to go to #1 or she's hitting you up...play it cool. Be responsive. Be nice. Forget to respond to a text or something. I don't know. Stop making her feel like she's the center of your universe for a second. I truly hate saying this because it can be so misconstrued as the "girls only like assholes" but here it goes anyways: I have never wanted to be with a guy when I was the center of his universe. Even when I'm in a relationship. I am fully aware how central I am/was to my boyfriend / ex's lives. But knowing a guy has better things to do than attempt to stick his stick in me is probably one of the biggest turn ons. It means he has found one thing more interesting than sex and that makes him much more interesting. 5. This is the hardest part. You must now force her...without forcing her literally....to get out of friend mode and into something more mode. Usually, I would suggest a nice alcoholic evening and dancing but that doesn't seem to be your style. So instead find something to do...like really do....and ask her to do it with you. And don't fucking take the pussy way out and go, "I got tickets for me and my friend and my friend bailed...wanna go?" But straight up and say, "Would you want to go to this show with me?" Now she knows there is a show. And she knows you want to go with her. If she says no...she #1. If she makes an excuse (I'm busy that day), see #1. If she says yes....then report back and I'll figure out how the fuck all that above shit worked and give you more advice. If you think her excuse is really valid, you can report back too. But I'll probably direct you to #1 anyways. As for things to do...fuck the movies or anything where you can't talk. Shows really aren't that great as first dates but they work because you typically have a long drive and time in between sets. Fuck dinner because it's way too boring. Look for things like going to the beach (although that's easy to turn into a bunch of friends instead of the two of you) or going to an art show or something where you can engage, talk, and have things to talk about. That's another problem with dinner. There is literally nothing to talk about unless you are fabulous at small talk or happen to converse really, really well with each other. PS: Also, I know the above was a lot of fucking and sex and stuff but it's all the same, regardless of whether you are trying to get with her or get with her. Even if you don't have sex, plan on having sex, it's still a sexual dance and human nature and stuff. PSS: I am giving this advise solely on my understanding of the situation from this one post. Sorry if I missed some key detail last week that would make all that advice not apply. Link me to some backstory comments - you don't have to explain why I'm wrong. ;) PSSS: Nothing. About. Sex. Or. Girls. Will. Ever. Be. Rational. So. Stop. Thinking. So. Damn. Much. ;)
Hey galen,
So I'm going to go of insomniasexx post here and elaborate a bit from my side of it because she asked me to and I know the way to that girl's heart and can tell you from the way you are attacking the situation you're running on the borderline of completely losing any way to gain any control of the situation back. First, let's take the solid advice: "Girls like...certain guys. Call them the assholes or whatever. Say "girls don't like nice guys". It's not exactly that but it's what those statements are talking about. There are just some guys that I wouldn't ever be sexually or emotionally/relationshippy interested in. Yes they can be the nicest guy. Yes they can have everything I would ever want. But there has got to be some sexual chemistry. And I don't mean sexual as in literal penis in vagina sex sex. Just like...sexual in nature." Girls like nice guys, but they don't want to be approached in a way that emphasizes this. Nice guys don't make a girl feel safe, I know this seems totally backwards but deep down psychologically, guys that come off as nice when you meet in a social situation seem like the guys that would not stand up confidently for you or be able to protect anything. Here's something on it: "They (nice guys) make women question if they’re someone we can rely on to protect us. Even the most independent and self-sufficient woman wants to be with someone who, at the end of the day, makes her feel safe to be with. We want someone who can protect us if we need it. We want to know if some guy is talking shit to us our boyfriend is going to be there to help us out." A girl wants to know you have a life and value your own time. So when, from the get go, you're into them 100% it's almost creepy, like what the fuck do you do with your time regularly? It doesn't really make any sense, but no one wants someone who is crazy into them and will do anything to be with them at first. Don't get me wrong that girl that didn't want you to come on that strongly will want every bit of that later on. And the nice guy you were showing off, she'll want that too, but only after she decides your what she wants, and she will let you know so don't try to rush or force that shit. "Furthermore, that "interested in a relationship" line is bullshit. Ignore it...sort of. I have used that phrase so many damn times when I wasn't interested in a guy. However, I have never gotten into a relationship when I wanted one. I have always unanimously (me, my heart, my brain, and my lady-bits that is) decided that relationships are bad and there are better things to spend my time and energy on. But I find myself in them anyways and, for the most part, it's been pretty great." This is 100% accurate, this is what insom told me when I first started to feel like that was the route I wanted to go with her, I had to work for that shit, and I am very glad I did. She has been very much worth it. The rest of the stuff in her post is subjective and will not work 50+% of the time, and it sucks to find out sometimes that the girl just really isn't interested which is what you may or may not get with insomnia's numbered advice. In my opinion, you need to ignore that girl. Don't be mean, you'll fuck everything up. But get away from it. Make your time seem valuable/desirable, have stuff to do. Be busy, go live life there's a lot of it when you're younger you will not get the opportunity to continue later. Take your time responding to her, make it so that she is on your time until she decides to give you some of her own. Assert confidence. Girl's need this, you being at her beck and call whenever she feels like it when you're not even at the relationship interest point just shows her that there is nothing more to be had or desired from you, because you are already giving her every thing she asks for. She hasn't had to reciprocate or put out any of herself for any of this from you, you're freely giving it because you like her which is awesome and nice and all, but also totally friend zone material. You have to make her want to/feel like its worth putting herself into you to get these things back from you. I'm kind of over writing anymore as posts like this aren't usually my steez but Insom thinks I should post how I managed to get her number/address the first time we met because it's hilarious and rediculous and it kind of shows a lot of the oddities about what works when approaching a girl you're interested in.
You mean the rom-coms lied to me? Gasp! Anyway yeah I got backstory for days. But these 3 conversations should give you the basics (in chronological order): https://hubski.com/pub?id=169939 https://hubski.com/pub?id=174079 https://hubski.com/pub?id=209139 I guess if you want I can dredge up some in-between stuff, but that's basically it. Looking back through, wow I have seriously overthought this. Thanks for being the one to point that out, because Jesus, past galen. I'm gonna take your advice. But actually. Not like all the times I've said that and not. Seriously, I will. I'm saying this so it'll be embarrassing if I don't so I will. I will also report back next week. Also thanks for taking the time to listen to my bullshit teenage problems and then advise me. The hubsquad are really good at that and I always forget to mention it.
Fuck it, dude. Do what feels right to you. Not that insomniasexx and _refugee_ aren't giving you objectively good advice, but there's nothing like learning on your own how to act successfully and unsuccessfully. You can read a whole manual on how to fly a plane, but in the end, you need the hours in the cockpit, if you catch my drift.
Agreed - my sister is 20 going on 21 and she wants to talk about her relationship problems all the time. And I sit, and try to listen, because that's what she wants me to do, and not tell her what to do, because the fact of the matter is that even though my advice might be right, or save her from heartbreak or assholes or whatever, she is not going to do anything sensical until she learns that everything she's trying right now doesn't work first hand. So go on and do whatever you want and make mistakes - I think people have to in order to learn lessons - but damn if I'm not going to be like "Dude, seriously? Seriously? I told you this - unhelpful as it may be! - a few months down the road.
I agree with insom's advice regarding the way to play things well. However, my advice would be to take a break from her (don't be rude, just don't engage more than you need to to remain responsive and polite), and take a couple of weeks for galen time. Hang out with other folk you enjoy, and work on a project that you've been wanting to. Take a overnight or weekend trip somewhere if you can. Whenever you start putting a lot of effort into trying to figure someone else out, you'd probably get better returns getting to better know yourself.
You and I have talked about this girl. I basically completely agree with everything insom has said. 1) Things never need to be declared out loud. Being declared out loud forces people to confront situations that they already know about and don't want to confront. This is why, despite the fact that yes, I had an obscene crush on a bartender for 6 months, I never sat him down and was like "I like you." He knew. I knew. We all fucking knew. To the extent that multiple, random, mutual friends of ours have been subtly comforting me about the fact that the interaction didn't turn out. TRUST ME. EVERYONE KNOWS. I have been told "keep my head up," I'm "marriage material," etc., etc., recently. Which is really just super amusing and also very kind of these mutual friends. People have invited me to hang out at other places besides the bar if I don't want to hang out at the bar. Everyone knows your shit. Especially this girl. She knows your shit. 2) "I don't want to be in a relationship" means "I don't want to be in a relationship with you." This is why people tell this line to other people, regardless of gender, and then piss the original people off by ending up in a relationship with a different person 3 weeks later. (Happens most in high school.) If you don't inspire this girl to want to be in a relationship, she doesn't. 3) Just go back and reread insom's post, like got damn. 4) I'm sorry, this is brutal, but this girl isn't interested in you. She hasn't been, and she's not going to be. Face it, galen! Find someone worth your time, aka someone who sees you for the awesome brilliant person that you are and loves every nanosecond of it.
Everyone is right. insomniasexx is right that you need to disengage and make her realize what she had. mk is right that you should take some time for yourself. b_b is right that some things you have to learn for yourself. I'll tell you this, I was friend-zoned many times as a young man and if I knew then what I know now, it wouldn't have been so. Listen to insom's advice, it's really good. Also, you may consider the D.E.N.N.I.S System: