Wanna hear from the peanut gallery here, not necessarily agreeing with article or promoting its advice.
Is being able to support oneself a privilege? I suppose it is. I don't know. I find the "privilege" and "unpacking my feelings of discomfort" places most problematic in this article. Oh, and the advice to give as well. Thoughts?
Mental Illness & Substance Use Data from research conducted in the past five years indicates that: • About 30% of people who are chronically homeless have mental health conditions. • About 50% have co-occurring substance use problems. According to analyses of data from the 1996 NSHAPC: • Over 60% of people who are chronically homelessness have experienced lifetime mental health problems • Over 80% have experienced lifetime alcohol and/or drug problems http://homeless.samhsa.gov/ResourceFiles/hrc_factsheet.pdf There are a few homeless dudes (60%, statistically; 85% are single) in the same neighborhood as my wife's business. If you make eye contact with them they shout WHATAREYOULOOKINGATFUCKHEAD!WANNASTARTSOMETHINGCUNT! and lunge at you. As you drive past them. I've had 'em jump out at me on my bicycle. I had my house broken into by ave rats (the privileged homeless). They stole about $4k worth of shit. And my toilet paper. And my diet coke. 'cuz they don't like shopping. Note - I helped count homeless one night. I put a social worker through grad school. And every Friday, for four years, I had dinner with a pair of psychiatrists that treated the homeless 50-60 hrs a week. For five years I worked nights in nightclubs in downtown Seattle, where I was surrounded by crack-addicted homeless going in and coming out. I'm not some college student seeing homeless people for the first time and feeling guilty about it. Sure - if it makes you feel better, be nice. If it makes you feel better, volunteer or shit, just give money. Union Gospel Mission has gotten a couple hundred bucks off me. But don't for a minute think that being nice and volunteering and shit will keep some meth-addicted schizophrenic from deciding you're smiling at him because the voices told you he masturbates to Bette Midler and you want to steal his fillings. U GO GRRLSara’s an avid foodie and amateur yogi with goals of healing her chronic illness holistically. When she’s not making a complete mess of her kitchen or trying to keep up with her personal health blog, she enjoys taking naps on campus, attempting to be punny on Twitter and searching for new street art downtown.
How is them having mental health problems an argument for NOT giving them money? They didn't get the necessary health care they needed, so fuck them? Personally, I've never had a homeless person be overtly aggressive towards me, even if I usually look (not stare) at them as I pass them by. Edit: I'm not implying that you're staring at them.
My rule has now become that if they don't ask me for money, I will give a bit. If they only day it as I'm passing by, I may still give some, but I've decided that I will not support people who walk up to you and ask. I find it to be scoring and disruptive. To be honest, I haven't completely gotten around to following that rule every time, though. It's hard to follow a middle ground like this! It was easy back when I never gave money, then I would just automatically say no. Now I have to make a adopt of the moment value judgement, and it can be difficult to say no to someone who's down and out. I agree with this woman that they are people, and I will consider them as such. They probably don't enjoy panhandling. It's something you do when you're desperate. It doesn't cost me much to give a bit, and it makes a big difference to them.
It isn't. It's an argument for: The article is about "valid techniques to handle panhandling" based on the assumptions that panhandlers are rational human beings. My whole point is that the assumption is statistically invalid. No, you're implying I'm a heartless dickhead who uses insanity as a reason to forego compassion. So thanks for that.How is them having mental health problems an argument for NOT giving them money?
don't for a minute think that being nice and volunteering and shit will keep some meth-addicted schizophrenic from deciding you're smiling at him because the voices told you he masturbates to Bette Midler and you want to steal his fillings.
Edit: I'm not implying that you're staring at them.
With the dehumanizing tone in that paragraph, I think you brought that upon yourself. Having mental issues, which is the statistic you cited, is not the same as being a cartoon character loon with imaginary birds flying around your head. It certainly doesn't mean that you're incapable of rational thought. "Mental health problems" is a pretty vague term. It could be anything from mild depression to raging schizophrenia. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to me it sounds like you're saying that if you give a homeless person money, they most likely won't even understand what's happening, due to their raging insanity. Forgive me if I think the implied next thought is "So why bother?"
I'm neither correcting you nor forgiving you. You missed this: and this: Which is why you're ignored now.Note - I helped count homeless one night. I put a social worker through grad school. And every Friday, for four years, I had dinner with a pair of psychiatrists that treated the homeless 50-60 hrs a week.
Sure - if it makes you feel better, be nice. If it makes you feel better, volunteer or shit, just give money. Union Gospel Mission has gotten a couple hundred bucks off me.
The first suggestion is just horrible. This is for the benefit of the author and no one else. All of us are marks to a panhandler, they aren't looking for a moment of human connection, they are looking for a dollar. A dollar is a form of human connection that they would really value. I've had an old panhandler start crying and burst into tears over $10, eye contact and a hello would never give that kind of solace. People try to give verbal tips to service people, make eye contact and tell you what a great time they had and how much they appreciate your service, then they give a shitty tip. I suppose that they think I prefer the warm human interaction over money but I don't and pan handlers don't. Next up Give (If you can). Give if you want to. If it makes you feel better, buying away the privileged guilt, than have at it. Otherwise give if you feel some kind of true compassion for others. If you don't want to give don't, if you don't have it don't, and don't feel bad about it.
living outdoors sucks and I'll give some cash if I have it. don't care if they spend it on heroin, you pretty much have to be high to deal with it. I'll even buy a 40 if I like em. the volunteering part of the article is a bit misguided. I've worked in a few of those places and it's a hell of gatekeeping. you'd be better off making a big pot of rice and beans yourself and just passing that shit out. see http://www.foodnotbombs.net/
you'd be better off making a big pot of rice and beans yourself and just passing that shit out
I don't know what to do. When I'm feeling rich, I'll give whatever's in my pocket or whatever I'm carrying -- cookies, a take-out coffee that I haven't even started drinking. When I'm feeling overwrought, nothing. I live in a downtown neighbourhood and we have our regulars. I always think of them as "the people in my neighbourhood" along with the rest of us puppets: Once I reached into my pocket and gave a fellow a dollar. He looked at it and started yelling at me, "What am I supposed to do with a dollar!!??" -- That was pretty upsetting. He wasn't one of the "regular" people in the neighbourhood. A couple of months later, a quiet Sunday morning, and I see him panhandling in front of the store I'm heading into. He "spare-changes" me and I say, "The last time I gave you money, you started yelling at me." He says, "I'm sorry. I must have been having a really bad day." He probably was having a really bad day, and his coping methods for bad days may be limited. I won't look someone in the eye and say words to the effect of "I recognize your humanity" as the author of the article suggests. But I will look someone in the eye and say, "Sorry, not today." and I agree with cgod
Having worked and lived in the same neighborhood for ten years I got to know many of the people in my neighborhood pretty well. Virgil usually lives under the porch of an abandon house. Long and lean with a head of pretty tidy dreadlocks. Back in the day he was a boxer, fought on ESPN once. Guy dropped out of a fight and he got called up for his TV debut with only a weeks training camp, lost and became a footnote in some anthers mans less than spectacular fight career. He likes to have cold beverages in summer, I give him ice from the machine at work. He washes the windows at my place of employment, does a terrible job but my asshole boss is actually a softy if he gets to know you. Ron is also long and lean. The man swings between unkempt and desperate with eyes reeking the deep yellow of a failing liver to calm, tidy and cleared eyed many times in the course of a year. I can't be too generous to Ron or he starts to expect too much. When he looks like he is about to die I feed him. I never give him money anymore, I gave him too much once when he promised to pay me back and didn't come through. It's not that I expected him to pay me back but if he had I'd still be slipping him a buck or two today. He says he's married but I've never met her, I don't know if his wife is a comforting fiction or a person who dreads Ron darkening her door. I don't buy any of the his stolen goods. Cici used to friends with my friend Shaun. Shaun was a gentle and generous hearted junkie, I figure Cici is as well. She used to be real sweet and gentle but the last few years seem to have ground her down. She never asks anything of me but cigarettes, peppermint candies and matches from the bar. I think she will die in the next few years, she looks bad and runs around with people I don't like seeing. Haven't seen Jerry in years. He used to be my can man (I'd save all my bottles and cans and let him turn them in for the nickles). One Christmas he started banging on my door wildly yelling shit. I opened up and he came crashing into my living room all wild and scary. He got a little thumping and next time he showed up for the cans, no memory of what happened, he was told to fuck off for ever. Feel a little bad for Jerry, we passed the time and shared a beer more than a few summer evenings on the porch. I didn't want our association to end that way but what if it was just my wife home next time. I traded in Jerry for Jo Anne. Jo Anne is awesome! I don't live in that house anymore and I don't get to see her. Jo Anne is a large, older black lady who has seen some hard days. She rides her bike around picking up cans to supplement her social security checks. She lives in her sisters basement. Her sisters kids are mean to her, stole her bike and left it abandoned somewhere one time. Just some cold hearted teenage shits. Jo Anne always has the best gossip on the underbelly of the neighborhood. She would tell me who the black community thought killed the couple that won the lottery, what bums to watch out for and every other juicy tidbit that was going around. I spent all kinds of time just talking about this and that with her, easiest lady to just kick it with. I have all kinds of respect for how hard she works to get a little extra cash together. I fear for her poor health and the day that she can't ride her bike around anymore. Once when we were out of town my sister and law, Samantha, was staying at the house. Jo Anne came to the door to see if we had any cans. Samantha answered the door and here is this beat looking big old black lady who is obviously comfortable and expecting to talk to someone she knows. I have to imagine that Sam looked a little surprised. Jo Anne immediately realized that it was an awkward moment and shouted out "I'M THE BLACK LADY THAT GET'S THE CANS." I heard this story from both parties in the end, both of them thought it was hilarious for different reasons. Whenever a visitor would come to town I'd end up taking them on a tour of the trendy little main drag close to the house. Jo Anne would usually be somewhere on the street hustling. I'd always get a kick out of running into her and shooting the shit, and eventualy inventing a reason to hand my baby daughter to her for a minute (tie my shoe or fishing out a few bucks for Jo Anne, whatever). Jo Anne had been holding my daughter since was three months old and my kid knew her as a trusted family friend but watching the face of my Mom, or an out of town aunt, as some gnarly, old, loud black street lady held their flesh and blood was pretty hilarious. I'm Just realizing I haven't seen her around the last few times I was in the neighborhood, hope she is ok. There are a few other street people I know that are fucking scum. The crazy old lady that pisses on cars and tried to spit on my baby. I actually hope she dies. If she had actually successfully spit on my kid I don't know what I would have done, I know where she sleeps, it wouldn't have been good. The old meth lady with the artificial leg and no teeth who steal shit from peoples yards. If she were to leave us tomorrow I wouldn't feel sad. The old robust black guy who tried to gently mug me one night, he can go to hell as well. There are at least one or two other prominent "people in my neighborhood" that I wish guilty white folks would stop funding because they are nothing more than a menace to society. Maybe we made them that way but if they weren't there that neighborhood would be a better, safer place to live. The more I think about this persons White affluence, guilt privilege essay the more I think it's naive piece of garbage. Each person trying to get a dollar out of you is exactly that, a person. Some of them are marvelous or mediocre people working as hard as they can to find a little comfort in this world. Many others are blights on society. Maybe they are blights because they have mental problems that a more enlightened society could ameliorate but I don't know that the solution lies anywhere close to acknowledging their humanity and giving them a few bucks. Boots on the ground I got to say this essay's first half is the product of timidness, guilt and naivete. The second half seems laudable. Pretty large number of spare changers are the kinds of people that will steal from you, try to mug you or just do some crazy ass shit like try and spit on your baby for no reason at all (except for a reason of hideous madness). There seems to be no rational course of action beside finding out who the hell you are going to give your hard earned money to before you start guiltily spreading it around. Creepy thing to me, I don't know any street people in my new neighborhood. Maybe I know one guy, he dresses like a street Keith Richards (which pretty much means like he dresses like Keith Richards while making the most of pretty limited wardrobe). He is out canning and we have had two small chats but I can't say I really know him. There is a lady from the sub-continent who cans, she seems to be working pretty hard but is timid. I'd give her my cans but for a barrier of language or caution that keeps us from getting to know each other. All the rest of the people who are out canning (no one in my new neighborhood spare changes) are Mexicans. They work late and cautious, I'm not going to get to know them. It's just five miles away from my old house, in the same city, in a less affluent but still desirable neighborhood but a totally different vibe. I guess it's a cooler vibe because I don't think anyone here is going to try and spit on my baby, but I do miss Jo Anne.
I really appreciate your contributions to this discussion. I've been really happy with the results of just posting this and asking everyone's opinions, but you put a lot of time in here to give us pictures of real people, and I value the time you put into it, as well as your general willingness to share and take up this topic. So thanks. Also, as responses to this have coming in, I have mostly realized more and more that the person who wrote this article has never been homeless and seems to have absolutely no idea of what it is like, so hasn't had any personal experience with homeless people and/or panhandlers. This was posted by a friend of mine on Facebook who lives in a city, it's either Vegas or New York, with a shit-ton of panhandlers. She thought this article was "exactly right." I had a different opinion...but I really like to hear from Hubski on stuff like this. It's not an easy topic, it's an interesting one, it is a topic that truly allows for a spectrum of experience and opinions (as opposed to the abortion debate which basically always comes down to "I'm for it" or "I"m against it" and sure we pretend to discuss the particulars but it's not the same), and it's something I'm not experienced in but had come up in a pubski before - I think you talked about it then, I know klein and thenewgreen had both been asked for money from panhandlers the week that it came up. So I'm glad to hear from everyone on it.
I didn't read this article yet, but I really enjoyed reading your comment and shared this post in hopes that others read it. Over the years, interacting with you on this subject has changed the way I approach pan handlers. I still have a number of gift cards that I get to hand out to people in my life and I'll get a bunch of $5 ones and hand them out to panhandlers too. This isn't because I think they'd prefer it to cash, it's because I almost never have any cash on me. Ever. Better than nothing, is what I assume. Usually these are starbucks gift cards and the place where people panhandle here is right next to a starbucks. It's enough to get a sandwich or a coffee, probably not both. But I assume it's better than nothing. The panhandlers here wear orange vests and I often wonder if they are mandated to do so or if they are all just really safe. I should look that up. Anyways, great read cgod, thanks for the tour.
I've never been homeless. I've spent a week in an alley and three months in a car but I have no idea how desperate it must feel to have no food or shelter, at the mercy of real citizens. I agree with cgod, they are not looking for companionship. Besides adopting them you cannot help the individual on a truly personal level. You are only opening yourself up to the con men. I very rarely turn a person asking for help down. If you're living on the street you have problems whether your own fault or not. I'll give you what I can to help, either a few dollars (I don't care what you spend it on) or more preferably, a meal from a nearby restaurant. If I tell you to piss off it's because you're a con man preying off my supposed guilt of this "privilege" the article mentions. Unless you're clearly challenged I have little sympathy for you. You will not be pushy and you will not treat me like a god with your false reverence because I'll see right through you. I am sorry The State has failed you but it's failing us all. Take this, it's all I can spare tonight and I hope I never see you again.
I was born and raised during a time where the place I lived was considered one of the worst in America to live. I still live in that community and have seen many changing faces of poverty. I wouldn't ve surprised if Ive experienced almost all possible combinations on the spectrum. Being exposed to this for almost 27 years alongside the greater American experience has led me to believe that I am personally responsible for at least providing the option of relief (whether positive or negative.)
I do what I can, when I can. As a foundation I at least engage panhandlers as humans in the hope that it mitigates the shame appended to it by society. I like to think that eye contact and confessing I currently have no cash eases their anxieties for a moment. I give hot food away when caught in moments that someone expressed hunger. If I cross paths with someone who is able to communicate a need for shelter or seems recently homeless, I point them to associates who offer such help.
Ultimately, I've spent far too long in these circumstances to be ignorant of how close many of us are to the same conditions. Ignoring these people, to me, is an act of being unaware and ungrateful for the circumstances that keep one away from the same fate. If I am the person I think myself to be, the only option is to do what I can when I can.
I used to live in a major city with no car and only public transit and my feet to get around. I saw a shitload of pan-handlers, many of them regulars. Back then I rarely gave much. I was a broke kid, and I was kind of annoyed at the constant stream of disingenuous lies told to my face in an effort to get my money. Then I grew up and realized that begging on the streets in the cold while battling mental illness, addiction, or depression sucks more than me not having a latte, so I usually help out if I've got cash on hand. I already say 'hey' or nod, whether I'm gonna give money or not, unless I'm with a group then I notice I don't as much. Still can't quite manage to give the gutter punk couple with the dog in tow anything though. Anyway, I don't feel bad when I don't give, but I give more than I used to.
Haha. I am more likely to give to a gutter punk on the road than anybody else. I had a good friend who would give anyone her last dollar and spent a lot of time on the road before we met. I think of her every time I see a punk on the road. At least they will be moving on with the money I provide, someone else's problem, no instant Karma.
I no longer would condescend to pull the whole "I won't give you money but I'll buy you a sandwich" BS, but for some reason punk+dog annoys me. It's a similar condescension along the lines of "I know better how you need to be spending the money I give you and it ain't on dog food". I know it's petty I should work on that.
That's funny, I feel like I would rather they spend the money on dog food than food for themselves, frankly. I mean, if they have $5 and that's their only option. I guess I could be shy and make an argument that "both people and humans can eat dog food," but it's really more the fact that I feel when you assume responsibility for a pet, the pet should be treated and cared for in ways very similar to a child, in that you, the owner, are now responsible for sustaining another being's life. 'Course, who knows how any panhandlers got their pets, when they have them - maybe they were street strays that banded together - but by god if you are going to have a dog with you that is your companion I expect that you will take care of it. If you choose not to take care of an animal you voluntarily came into possession of, then you don't deserve to take care of that animal. (Of course - take a pet from a panhandler because he's not taking care of it - then who will?)
It's a reminder that we're all in it for ourselves first and foremost. I don't smile. I usually just give a nod of acknowledgement, if they ask I say, "sorry, man." and keep walking. Usually feeling guilty knowing I could go pull out a twenty and still pay the rent. But I know they've already forgotten about me and I'll soon forget about them and we're still floating through space and it's fucking hard to get along no matter where you are.
I disagree with all three of the points involved, though I'm not going to attempt to generalize this (eg. I'm not telling the rest of you that you should act this way). 1. Say Hello This is dangerous. This is actively dangerous. I don't know if this is applicable elsewhere (though klienbl00 seems to have some stats on this), but where I live a very large portion of the homeless and panhandlers are mentally ill. When I first moved here, I tried to be compassionate, I tried to reach out, say hello, offer food and change when I had it. All I got was yelled at. And a guy swung a knife at me one time. In broad daylight, 2 in the afternoon on a saturday, at a bus station beside a grocery store. I'm comfortable with putting my self-preservation before making others feel good. So point 1 fails for me.
2. Give (If You Can) Maybe this is a good idea, in general. I like what the article has to say about not policing donations, etc. I've always felt that it must be a really degrading experience, as a panhandler, to have to deal with people trying to condition their donations to you. I also suspect that it's actively detrimental. Most of the research around concepts such as a universal basic income or some other direct cash transfers seem to show that it's more effective than restricted in-kind transfers, and I would assume that this extends to individual panhandlers. That said, I no longer give money of any kind to panhandlers (see (1) above). I've dedicated a bunch of time to informing myself on the issue of poverty, and I believe I'm addressing it at a more effective location. As I mentioned above, many of the panhandlers are mentally ill, and if they had the proper support they would not need to pandhandle. So I have decided to do my particular part at the 'mental health support' level, donating my time and money to help support these institutions. I'm not going to tell you that you should actively avoid giving money to panhandlers directly and do this instead, but it's the choice I've made 3. Get Involved I have a knee-jerk reaction against slacktivism, and am interested in efficient charity, and so I think that this point is exactly 100% wrong. The world doesn't need more volunteers. These problems are not constrained by unskilled human resources. Most volunteers are unable to realistically help with this sort of thing. The constraint is skilled labour (or money; you can generally trade money for skilled labour so these are interchangeable). Volunteering and advocacy tends to be more for the feel-good fuzzies of the volunteer, than for the actual solving of the problem. I'm a white collar office worker who makes a good salary. My time is worth a fair chunk of change. Every hour I spend volunteering, is an hour I could have spent freelancing. And if I was so inclined, one hour of freelancing income donated will pay to hire like 5 volunteers for an hour. This is a much more effective way to "volunteer", especially for anyone with a job that affords them the freedom to read articles like this at work. Finally, as for getting educated, this is actually a solid piece of advice. However, it's hard to follow through with, because there is a lot of mistaken information out there. For example, most of the links provided as examples are not actually valuable or actionable advice. "There is a shortage of affordable housing", is not completely true; it's true with caveats. There is a shortage of affordable housing in cities. And this is largely due to anti-development constraints (some natural, like available land, some artificial, like zoning, density, and max height regulations). At first glance, the link seems to be implying that this is the fault of the minimum wage being too low, but this is largely orthogonal to the problem at hand.