A few weeks ago I had a chance to try ayahausca for the first time. I attempted to record the entire experience in detail. After having some time to reflect on it, I can honestly say that it was a lovely encounter. When looking back on the past month of experience, the ayahausca encounter is like an experiential nuclear bomb. I'll quickly describe the basic narrative of events in my experience, but I'd also like to preface this by saying that the event cannot be put into language, not really. It feels like a mind mirror of some kind, and mind-body sensations or perceptions are far more important than analytical concepts.
- After first cup - felt nothing - some shapes and colours.
- After the second cup - the singing around me felt "perfect". I had a strong sensation of being "pulled" towards the center of the group's energy. I could easily imagine all of humanity together.
- For a moment "Cadell" resisted how my mind was becoming transformed. The transformation is an indescribable process. Specifically remember thinking "Oh my god, I could go off the deep end, the cliff of the mind." This "cliff" has a spatial dimension, but a much stronger and more terrifying temporal dimension. - But I had read a lot about this experience so I remembered back to what the almost universal advice is: "let go, don't try and control this". I also remembered what my friend had told me before taking the first cup: "let it take you". And so I "let go".
- After this moment - which lasted for a very brief period of "time" - I was off in an entirely positive direction.
- In this space I was able to think and contemplate aspects of my life. Mostly things that were happening in my recent history. Many people describe experiencing deep connections to the past (i.e., childhood, etc.), but I didn't.
- I felt as if I was in dialogue, more like a meta-dialogue of some kind. There was more a feeling of "What can I do for the world?" "I'm looking for answers about what to do to make humanity peaceful and loving?" The experience kept showing me a tremendous campfire surrounded with billions of humans. There was complete joyous celebration everywhere. I kept feeling a tremendous "mind hug" of overwhelming power.
- I had the strong intuition that if everyone could feel my direct subjective experience, everything would be transformed. A complete apocalypse in the traditional sense of the word, like some type of "revelation".
- I felt as though "Cadell" was burning in the fire. The feeling was also overwhelmingly strong. I had the feeling of a presence that said something like "I know you've been waiting for mystery, I know you wanted to experience this directly, so here it is."
- I went through immense emotional phases that felt something like crying for all of the pain that is currently happening on the planet as a whole. But this felt rejuvenating. It felt justified.
- Felt like I was at the peak of mind. Here I thought this was a "mind mirror" of some kind.
- Thought: "This is everything."
- Other than the feeling of a "mind mirror", I did sense something like "Other". This "Other" was feminine and its presence occurred three times in the experience. It was mysterious/loving.
- Most of the experience felt like an "eternity".
- Powerfully felt the robotic nature of our society. That our fear of robotics is a projection of our own robotic behaviour.
- There were a few moments where it felt like there was a strong qualitative "phase transition" in the mind , like my reality could be ripped through and I could really leave my mind. Wanted it to happen but I lost the sensation.
- There were also sensations of higher dimensions of space and whirling stars everything, but that faded away too.
- Felt life as warm, and Earth as our home.
- As I came down from the experience, I felt refreshed. Almost as if my mind-body had been dirty and I was coming up from a clear river.
That was a summarised version. Overall, since reflecting I realise that I want to continue exploring this experience. I feel as though it is perhaps the most powerful experience I've ever had. I don't think it is magic in that you just become more intelligent or anything by taking it. But I would say it is an important experience, at least for me, for two main reasons:
1. The intensity with which you experience the present moment on the planet is on a higher level.
2. The importance of encountering a phenomenon you cannot put into language is the highest beauty, and forces you to confront your own worldview, which is after all, linguistically constructed.
However, it is also a very serious substance. I think if someone took this without knowing what it was, or without having read anything about it, or without preparing their mind for it, it could definitely result in a terrifying experience. Also, it seems like a substance that forces you to confront your own mind, your own flaws, etc. But also, it allows you to think clearly and ask questions, and this is a very rewarding encounter.
Anyway, those are my initial thoughts.
Sounds like you had a pitch-perfect experience and that it was very helpful for you. Some of those quotes could have come out of my own mouth after I had experimented with DMT, so it's very pleasing to hear that you had such a good internal and external environment around you before taking the plunge.
You also realize all psychedelic artwork is only an imitation of an experience in another state of mind, amirite? Glad you enjoyed it, amigo, and I'm glad Hubski could give you some input before you took the leap.2. The importance of encountering a phenomenon you cannot put into language is the highest beauty, and forces you to confront your own worldview, which is after all, linguistically constructed.
Yes, definitely. It would be interesting to be standing in front of a canvas while on aya. Since researching about psychedelics I've developed a new appreciate for art in general.You also realize all psychedelic artwork is only an imitation of an experience in another state of mind, amirate?
Did you ever get around to reading The Doors of Perception? I remember Huxley comments a lot on his interpretations of art under the influence of psilocybin.
Yes I did! What a great book. One of my favourite quotes reflects an interesting phenomenon of space-time dimensionality becoming superseded by informational properties:Did you ever get around to reading The Doors of Perception?
I saw books, but was not at all concerned with their positions in space. What I noticed, what impressed itself upon my mind was the fact that all of them were glowing with living light and that in some the glory was more manifest than in others. In this context position and the three dimensions were beside the point. Not, of course, that the category of space had been abolished. When I got up and walked about, I could do so quite normally, without misjudging the whereabouts of objects. Space was still there; but it had lost its predominance. The mind was primarily concerned, not with measures and locations, but with being and meaning.
I have wanted to talk about this for a while. After experiencing psychedelics, a lot of artwork out there claiming to represent that state of existence seems to be invalid and some legitimate.
How long was your trip? Did you take the kind that makes you vomit? What kind of setting did you take it in? Were you the only one tripping? Would you do it again or it's more of a one-time thing? Fascinating experience, i'm super curious about ayahuasca. So glad you're sharing it here, we've had many discussions on this subject on Hubski in the past :) Interesting reads if anyone wants to catch up on the ayahuasca talk:
5 hours. When it was over, there was no hangover. But I was in complete astonishment. Well I think there is always the chance of vomiting. I didn't vomit, although I did feel my stomach turn a few times. But I took the advice of a friend and I didn't eat anything the whole day before consuming ayahausca in the late evening. So that may have helped. I think if I ate anything that day, it would have come up! I took it with a large group. The entire group had intensive experience with the substance. They made me feel comfortable, and I attribute their presence, in particular their music, as one of the reasons it was such a loving experience. I think I'll keep doing it regularly. Everyone I've talked to says the experience just becomes more intense and you go through "levels" or "grades" as you progress within your own mind. Definitely felt like there was so much more "to do". Felt endless.How long was your trip?
Did you take the kind that makes you vomit?
What kind of setting did you take it in? Were you the only one tripping?
Would you do it again or it's more of a one-time thing?
That seems like a pretty big risk imo. They'd have to be really close friends otherwise I personally might start bugging out. But if it all goes just right, I imagine sharing that experience with people who get it must've been amazing. How did their experiences compare to yours? Did anyone have a bad trip? I've been unable to find anyone who had their trip go south on DMT-based stuff. Also, 5 hours is insane, a regular hit of 5meo DMT is like 15 minutes of a trip I believe.I took it with a large group. The entire group had intensive experience with the substance. They made me feel comfortable, and I attribute their presence, in particular their music, as one of the reasons it was such a loving experience.
DMT is a significantly different experience to compare though. Part of the appeal is just how quickly it takes you so deep.
I've been reduced to consciousness floating in the aether without time or space from an eight hour mushroom trip. It can be a long distortion of reality. I don't generally go all that deep on acid but I've seen people leave the world for a good eight hours.
Ya, I don't doubt that mushrooms can take you out of this world too.
Ya it was definitely a positive for me. But I think taking three big cups in the forest by myself would be super interesting. Part of me wants to go solo to see what happens. Most people around me seemed like they were glowing and very happy after the experience. Most of the people I spoke with were just very deep in their own mind just acknowledging that it had been profound. It takes a while to process the information experienced. Well, I've read about bad trips. There is that famous National Geographic post "Hell and Back". But the strange thing is that even people who have "bad trips" end up wanting to go back in.But if it all goes just right, I imagine sharing that experience with people who get it must've been amazing.
How did their experiences compare to yours? Did anyone have a bad trip?
I've been unable to find anyone who had their trip go south on DMT-based stuff.
Where you in the States when you took it? I know that there are plenty of people who go to South America to perform the ritual. I had also heard that there are shamans that go around the States providing the experience to those who can't make the trip.
Thanks to this discussion I have a growing wish list of books I would like to read before diving in. Another book I own, but have only been able to thumb through, is McKenna's "Food of the Gods". _refugee_, you may find that read interesting since you've had first hand experience with shrooms.
Thanks for the shout-out - I didn't necessarily enjoy my experiences with shrooms and have no plans to pursue them further or for spiritual/esoteric gratification (same with basic hallucinogens, etc, in general - I've done 'em enough, but I don't get that much out of them) so I don't know if I'd get anything out of it, but I'll check it out just to see. For those of you who did enjoy your experiences and/or do plan to use those drugs to reach higher planes or greater stages of self-awareness or anything, that's cool - it's just not something that really works for, or interests, me. Different strokes for different folks, I'd just prefer that everyone not jump in and tell me I'm missing out. I'm also completely uninterested in, say, lucid dreaming, for example. I'm glad some people get kicks from it, and I don't try to deny those benefits. They just don't do much for me.
Thank you so very much for sharing this experience. I have been reading "The Spirit Molecule" and have been thinking about a DMT and/or Ayahuasca experience for sometime. I find it interesting that you have decided to go down this path, as I may eventually do, because several of your other views on life, humanity, and evolution, etc are commensurate with my own. (Edited to remove questions that have been answered)
I've tried both now - although my first DMT experience was short-lived because I should have taken one more hit. It is not fair for me to say what I think of the pure DMT experience as a whole, but if I also draw from what I've read, I'd say that the DMT experience would be more terrifying because it feels overwhelmingly quick and strong. I'm sure that if I had taken one more hit it would have been something completely "other" to me. Ayahausca on the other hand gives some room for thought and contemplation. I think that is why, although I will try pure DMT again, I have a feeling that ayahausca is something that you can develop a deeper long-term relationship to. Cool, do let us know if you take the plunge as well :) I'd recommend reading The Antipodes of Mind by Benny Shanon if you get the chance. It is the best book about ayahausca that I've read so far.I have been reading "The Spirit Molecule" and have been thinking about a DMT and/or Ayahuasca experience for sometime.
I find it interesting that you have decided to go down this path, as I may eventually do, because several of your other views on life, humanity, and evolution, etc are commensurate with my own.
I see you mention psyclobin down-thread and I'm just jumping in to say that shrooms sound like something you would like to do and I'd recommend them over a straight DMT trip for another "experience" if this is what you are looking for. However, I don't have anything to back up those statements except "folklore" - the amassed collection of stories from my friends and their usage - and, I admit, my own experience.
I was in a well-lit room, and the group was organised in a larger circle with three rows. All the people in the first row had instruments and were playing warm music throughout the entire experience.