So I've been doing some thinking. And nothing good ever comes from when I think about problems that are unthinkable. Unsolvable mysteries of the universe that can really only be answered by doing one specific action which you don't want to do. Or do you?
Quantum Suicide has popped up in my mind yet again. To quickly summarize, it's an act of life/death that determines whether Everett's Many Worlds interpretation is true. Here's a wiki link. Naturally, it seems like a pretty neat idea. You keep going until something happens. Tempting fate. In every world where you die, you won't be able to observe because you are dead. So you keep living. Of course, this is to the horror of all of your peers as in the other world, you die.
But what would happen if you repeated this experiment forever? Eventually something would need to happen. The universe would barge in and ruin the experiment. It'd have to. Some way or the other, you'd eventually die. It's the natural conclusion of the universe. But is this final death (not caused by the quantum machine) your "actual" death? Or simply the longest living you? When you die by this other cause, do you not see that due to the many worlds interoperation and you get some other event?
Going further, could we say that any death would and could not happen from our perspective then? Sure, we see others die, but they are consciously observing past that point in some other identical branched world. At least, some form of them is.
But what happens at the end of that road? Eventually all of you will die. Does this imply you'll simply live every possible iteration of your life, until you run out? You'll die in every possible thinkable way? Every quantum "choice" is exhausted. No more worlds to explore. What happens then?
My personal viewpoint (which I've deduced during another time) is that consciousness and subjective perspective is simply a function of the current universe, and that it's not unique to any specific individual. A good way to see this: compare your perspective of you five minutes from now to someone else five minutes from now. They are identical. You can't see shit. You can't perceive what they see. Now try it in the past. Same result. What about an alternate you, doing something different than what you are doing right now (dying in the machine instead of living)? Can't. See. Shit.
So in terms of exhausting all of your options, it seems the logical choice would be to pick another observer, and exhaust all of their "paths". In essence, it's just a much more complex version of a visual novel. With each VN choice being the equivalent of the quantum mechanics at play. Just add in more playable characters and you essentially have life.
Somehow, no matter how I approach the problem, I keep returning to this point. Infinitely many perspectives, infinitely many choices. With no point, no purpose.
And I just think about how ridiculous it is that I'm simply observing one of these infinitely many paths. But what's that say about you? You are not the "same" you that started reading this. And the "me" that's typing this is not the same "me" that started typing this. Yet we are.
It's kind of a depressing thought. No one I've talked to or seen is the same person that I'll see ever again. And yet they are. In a weird sort of way.
In essence, I/You are just this weird emergence that's simply floating around, observing what there is to be observed ala the Anthropic Principle. We observe because we can. Every possible observance has been made.
But what is this "thing" that is observing? And why does it seem to be going by second by second? I've pondered this particular question for a while, and the best I could come up with is the anthropic principle. It observes because it's possible to observe.
I've recently stumbled upon a phrase that made me reconsider this question. "There can't be nothing, as having nothing means you have the concept of nothing".
And I can't see any faults with that. Even if we could have "nothing", there is something. I can observe it. I know I'm here. But I can't be sure I'm here in the same way when I'm in a dream I can't be sure I'm there either.
And then you get your perspective of being in a dream in a dream. Like inception. Could we be in a life in a life? Does it matter?
So there's something because there can't be nothing. And we are observing because we can. There's infinitely many different "versions" of the world we live in. And an infinite amount of "time" (which is really just a location) to explore those worlds.
The only way any of this makes remotely any sense is if it all just didn't exist. Nothing. It's counter intuitive, as we can observe. But it has to be both infinitely massive and complex, yet entirely simple and nothingness. We can't just have "something". That'd leave too many "whys" open.
It all just makes my brain run around in circles, leaving me with a melancholic view and no answers. If I think about it for too long, I start to get feelings of dissociation and depersonalization. And I take a break, and later my mind eventually wanders to this topic again and again.
I can't help but think I'm trapped. There's no way out, no point. It's the ultimate hell. Nothing means anything, everything feels both intensely real, yet everything feels fake. Death isn't a way out, as it'll just result in another life, somewhere somewhen else. Or it might just be a complete failure at every attempt.
Yet, I can observe everyone else die, only to think that I was/will be/am them, and know what will happen to them. They/I are stuck in this labyrinth just as I am.
And I just thought of something. That's why people try to solve the mysteries. People go into science, math, chemistry, etc. To solve these problems. Perhaps they understood this long ago, and the current me is just figuring it out.
I tell all this to people, and all I get in response is "yea, it looks like hell, but keep going and there's something great waiting for you". Yet, I can't seem to find it, no matter how hard I look. It's all pointless and futile. Every road is a dead end.
The only way out seems to be to create a world of my own, one that I want to be in. Or join someone else's (my own) world. I've done this mostly via games and tv. But then I realized... There's no real "point" to wanting to be in these worlds. What will I do once I'm there? Ask the same questions. Be bothered by the same lack of response. And all of a sudden I'm in a different world yet still locked in the same labyrinth of questions.
All I know is that those worlds seem hell of a lot nicer to spend time figuring this stuff out in.
Ugggggh. I can't figure it out. I feel like I've come up with the answer, but it's so unsatisfying and still makes me wonder. My ultimate question isn't answered. Why? Why must "I" wander pointlessly around? But I know that. "I" must exist because 1. "I" am observing, and 2. In the world of nothing and infinity, there must be both nothing and everything. And as such, "I" must exist. It's like getting to the end of a book, just to be disappointed by the end. There's nothing you can do to fix it, and you must simply live with it. Forever. In every possible configuration of the universe.
But what happens at the end? And the answer is: nothing. There is no end because there's no time. So naturally the progress of perspectives must be circular. Just like circles. And the universe. Infinitely so. So infinite and long, that it wraps around and begins again.
We get that with a lot of things. Like the earth. or our bodies. And the big bang/crunch. Space is suspected to wrap around. Well, go on forever and then wrap around. Temperature goes so low that it is infinitely high. It wraps around after an infinite value.
I suppose the reason I'm so upset and bothered is that I've always just wanted to know. I wanted to know "why". I've never stopped asking. Not once. And now my why has ran into a circle. The answer to my "why" was answered, and all I want to know is "why is it like that?" "why is that the answer?" It's the answer because it has to be. But what determines that something has to be in some way? Nothing. And everything. Something can be some way here, and some other way somewhere else. Both possibilities exist, and so they do. I'm simply observing this one.
It seems like everyone else either knows this as a fact of life, or just doesn't care. As if they don't care about the whole reason they can observe in the first place. Just watching people makes me sad. What do they do? Facebook. Reddit. Hubski. Youtube. Hell, maybe they'll even work or go to class. Just mindlessly. Without care. over and over. For all of time. You bring it up to them, and they'll have one of three actions. The first is be outraged and ignore you. The second is be interested, and think about it for a little, and ultimately dismiss it. The third becomes like you. Curious and are unable to come to a conclusion.
It's hard to be motivated and happy when you realize you are stuck. I guess some people would take it as a sign that they can do whatever, but you hardly see those people. And they don't realize what "forever" is. Or perhaps they do and don't care.
But how can one not care about their entire existence?
All I can come up with, is that ignorance is bliss. It really, truly, is. You don't have to think about all this. You can go about your mindless existence without many interruptions, and you can go back to your scheduled programming.
But all I can think is that it's fake. All of it. Nothing is "real" about this. We pretend like it is, but it isn't. Everyone goes about their pretend jobs, doing their pretend work, exchanging pretend play money. And for what? Some use it on distractions. To escape this world. This was me for a while. I still do that to an extent, but I don't know why. Other's use their pretend play money on exploring this world. But that's really no different than exploring the pretend play worlds that other people pretend worked on. Then there's the people who give it away. Probably because they realized that they don't know why they got it in the first place, or perhaps because they think someone else can tell them what they want to spend it on. But those people don't, as they fall into one of the categories like everyone else.
And while this happens, all I can think is how pointless it is. Yet, there's no solution. Dying results in another pointless world. Yet, anything I could physically do would ultimately be ineffective.
The only possible thing I could think of is to travel to these other worlds for the purpose of meeting myself. Or maybe trying to destroy this mind virus and solve the problem of nothing and infinity. But that wouldn't result in anything. As it's logically impossible.
I can't figure out what I'm missing. And I'm doomed because of it. Stuck in this awful labyrinth. Unable to do anything.
So many misconceptions. So many conclusions leapt to. So much suffering and turmoil as a consequence. Here, walk with me: * * * The first thing you need to understand is Irwin Schroedinger came up with the cat in the box not to say "whoa - half-dead cat" but to point out that at an intellectual level we're all comfortable with, quantum superposition is fuckin' CRAZY SHIT, yo. "Schroedinger's Cat" is classic reductio ad absurdum - Einstein argued that a pile of gunpowder necessarily contains granules that are both exploded and unexploded in their quantum states and Schroedinger said "if you think that way then let me demonstrate this undead cat to you, you crazy-haired weirdo." Even Einstein called quantum entanglement "spooky action at a distance" and when the guy who came up with relativity uses an adjective like "spooky" you can rest assured that quantum reality is probably not familiar to Newtonian reality. The next thing you should know is that quantum suicide is, in popular internet parlance, "beating the dead horse" of Schroedinger's Cat. It doesn't say "whoa dude we're, like, immortal" it says "the many worlds hypothesis is completely alien to our understanding of how the world works." So let's take this back to physics, and let's take this back to reality. In physics, what Schroedinger's Cat really says is "quantum superposition requires an observer in order to change reality." That's the takeaway. It's powerful stuff - if you push it to extremes, it says we're all Gods because if we're not watching, the universe doesn't happen (yet for some reason, the stoners and pop psychologists latch onto the half-dead cat). In physics, what quantum suicide really says is "no observer necessary, your choices aren't yes/no they're yes/different yes and it is only through observation that we are aware of the decision." Quantum suicide is a thought experiment that takes the God out of quantum mechanics, nothing more. Because here's the real takeaway of the Many Worlds hypothesis - for every wave function that collapses there's a new universe in which the wave function doesn't collapse BUT we can have no interaction with that other universe because quantum mechanics. That other universe is forever walled off away from us behind an impenetrable barrier of physics. It is dead to you. You have no interaction with it. Every single time a particle has to choose whether or not to be a wave, we shed a new alternate universe. So who the fuck is "we"? My wife is on the couch next to me. In the time it took me to write that sentence, the universe has shed an infinite number of wives on an infinite number of couches that I'll never sit on. Up until I started typing, we were all on the same couch… but that's only because all the quanta fell the right way each and every time. Look at it this way: The things in your life are in your life because against the impossible odds of infinity to one they tumbled through the universe's Pachinko parlor the exact same way as you. You exist in a universe in which every possible decision made at every possible increment of time on every possible level at every possible scale of the universe came out exactly the same. Kind of fucking amazing, isn't it? The people that are around you are, at a quantum level, around you because they beat the odds that make the Lottery look like a coin toss. And many of them will be with you for decades. Probability is steadfastly against you churning right along - hell, probability is against the whole universe not flying apart through entropy! - yet there you are, worrying about other universes and how much time you waste on Reddit. It's not doing you any good. There are two ways to think about this: The first is that in this universe, the one you are in, an awful lot has to go right in order for it to continue. Fortunately it's doing so, shall continue to do so, and will not stop doing so no matter what you do or don't do. Your solitary intellect is a probability fan across the infinite brilliance of all that could be - and that which is 'you' is but one tiny, contiguous line amongst countless, untold filaments. All those other filaments are walled off from you, so best get busy interacting with the other people that are, improbably, still on your own timeline. As far as I'm concerned, do whatever you want so long as you're having fun - there's no test at the end, there's no extra credit, and we only get so many laps around the sun. The other way to think about this is that for every decision you've ever regretted, for everything that never happened no matter how strenuously you wished it would, there's a universe out there where it did. You did date that girl in high school. You did pick up guitar at 17. You did enlist in the Army. Somewhere out there, beyond all but imagination, all those things are happening. You are leading every possible life you could possibly lead, you are taking every opportunity you could possibly take, you are suffering every misfortune you could possibly befall. You already are dead countless trillions upon trillions upon trillions of times. And, hey - in some universe somewhere (countless universes somewhere) you're going to live forever. But not in this one. The Many Worlds Hypothesis is something to contemplate. It's something to think about. it's not something to live your life by. It's a shorthand to demonstrate to fellow quantum physicists that if they persist in thinking of quantum physics in terms of Newtonian physics, they will lose their minds. Here in the real world, all we see is the macro. My wife got up from the couch and headed to the bedroom. If I walk over there, I'll see her. The sun will come up tomorrow and my car keys are going to be right where I left them, presuming my daughter doesn't choose to move them again. If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. Friedrich Nietzsche Do NOT engage the universe in a staring contest. It will win. Instead focus on your place in it and make sure it's where you want to be. Snap out of it. Quantum physics is fucking rad, not this maudlin shit you're making it out to be. Sometimes it's even funny.
Another comment, this post has some great bits in it, stuff I've really empathized with at one time or another, but I think your conclusions are wrong. I really do. It reminds me of the post in the "what do you want to be when you grow up" thread the other day, with the human condition observation stuff -- and crap I'm incoherent -- but basically you're right about everything, especially: It's hard to be motivated and happy when you realize you are stuck. I guess some people would take it as a sign that they can do whatever, but you hardly see those people. And they don't realize what "forever" is. Or perhaps they do and don't care. But how can one not care about their entire existence? BUT -- why does this depress you? Why do you feel stuck? Another case of me agreeing with someone on hubski but drawing completely different conclusions from that consensus. Life is fascinating and incredible and if you're even bothering to read about quantum suicide that means you grasp some of its most beautiful facets. I don't want to know the answer, life shouldn't give up its secrets so easily. I fucking love that we as a species have no idea why we're here, or if there is a why, that maybe we're here for no reason but chance. Or maybe we have a grand purpose, but you I and will be long dead before it's realized. That too is bittersweet, but sweet all the same. I don't know. Why is an amazing question, it's a special word -- it's the word that makes homo sapiens what it is. But answers don't need to emerge in order for great people to continue asking the hard questions. That's why we are where we are today, and why we'll be where we are in the future. Whichever of the many worlds that may be. Keep making posts like this. I should really stop getting on hubski while I'm drunk, but I enjoyed thinking about this.It seems like everyone else either knows this as a fact of life, or just doesn't care. As if they don't care about the whole reason they can observe in the first place. Just watching people makes me sad. What do they do? Facebook. Reddit. Hubski. Youtube. Hell, maybe they'll even work or go to class. Just mindlessly. Without care. over and over. For all of time. You bring it up to them, and they'll have one of three actions. The first is be outraged and ignore you. The second is be interested, and think about it for a little, and ultimately dismiss it. The third becomes like you. Curious and are unable to come to a conclusion.
Yea, this is usually the response I get when I mention something I've thought about for a long time. The people who listen will always go "yea, you are completely 100% right. But you see, your conclusion is obviously wrong, and X is obviously the right answer". Even though it doesn't follow. It amuses me to no end. Movies, Music, Fashion, Philosophy, programming, science, books, etc. Everything I seem to pick out and approve of, people agree. But then I say something that follows like rejecting what isn't what I picked out, they immediately dismiss my statements, as though they can't reject their previous thoughts. I used to reject my thoughts on a daily basis. At first it was simple stuff. Why is the sky blue? That resolved itself pretty quickly. Why are clouds shaped the way they are? Again, another mystery easily solved. I believed one thing because of the way I was raised, and I quickly dismissed it and found the correct solution. I do it all the time. Even today. I've recently ditched my old music in favor of new better music that I have found. It seems people latch onto things even though it is illogical. To answer the first is to explain my entire purpose of doing things and my entire way of thinking. Growing up, I just did what I was told, not really thinking about much. I'd do the problems on the board, clean my room, and then just play with toys and video games. A simple life. I forget when it happened, but I just kind of started questioning everything. And that's pretty much what drove me forward. I didn't care much for history, as that was all in the past. My big subjects where science and math, the two classes that answered questions. Math was a logic puzzle and a game for a long time. Now it's a tool. Science was different. Science explained things. And it's always great to learn something new. And so, I kept progressing and finding out answers to anything and everything. There seemed to be no end to the knowledge available. So I kept going. Come 2013ish (and maybe late 2012) I start to notice that I'm coming up short. The internet started failing. No big problem, I'll just think through my problems. And I did. I started reading tangential stuff to see if that'd help. And of course, I took a break from my usual questioning, as I noticed differences in myself and I wanted to find out that was about. Fast forward to today, and I was back on my search. And I kind of realized that I hit the end. There's no big "hurray, you've figured it out!". There's no party, no celebration. No "good job". And there certainly wasn't anyone waiting for me. After all these years of working towards it, and the end is just kind of lack luster. It's all circular and comes down to infinities and abstract thinking. Which makes sense I suppose. But I don't feel satisfied with the answer I've found. I guess I just wanted "more". There's still the big question, which my answer doesn't really answer: how/what is consciousness. And why it instead of something else? Just relying on the anthropic principle and that rough description of consciousness feels lame. Like a great idea on crutches. As if in 100 years there'll be someone who just figures it out. Like I'm just not getting something. And there's a lot of times where I don't get stuff. I guess that's part of the reason why it upsets me. Or maybe it's just because no one seems to really care about this stuff, and they just say "move on already" when you bring it up. It's like "what does the fox say" is more important for some reason. And that's a depressing thought. It also puts a complete stop on my whole train of thought. I can't just charge forward learning new stuff any more. I've pretty much hit the edges of everywhere. I'm thinking of moving on to art/fashion next. But maybe not. I kind of just have this rough idea of everything, and I don't want to be bothered by getting the details. There's no point, I was just after the big picture anyway. So I guess that's kind of why I feel stuck as well. I've seen that quite a bit here on hubski as well. It's amusing. No doubt. There's some really interesting/neat parts. And I have no problem grasping the concepts. I'm actually a big fan of time travel and alternate world stuff, so the whole quantum suicide thing kind of popped up naturally. As did the many worlds interpretation and the whole nature of time thing. All really cool stuff. | I don't want to know the answer, life shouldn't give up its secrets so easily.| How could you not want to know? It's pretty much the one thing that drives my day to day life. I've gotten into the habit of just looking up at the sky every now and again when I'm outside. For no reason. I just like to look up there and imagine what I'm missing out on. And planes. I fucking love planes. Never been in one, but they are so interesting. I always stop to look at them in the sky. I hate that. And I'd really love to just be ignorant and religious, content with the stories provided. But of course, my natural thought process killed the idea pretty much instantly. Logically, we are here because we must be. No more, no less. It's a logical possibility and the possibilities must occur, due to the infinite circumstances. And as there are observers, there must be something observing. And that's "us". It all makes very logical sense. It's a clean consistent answer. The only one I've found, actually. As the saying goes: "Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth." You know. Death doesn't really bother me anymore. It did for a long time. I'd always be really scared of anything possibly occurring. But after typing up that long post, I just kind of felt relieved. And my anxiety was gone, at least for a while. It was nice, being able to walk around without worrying, without thinking about everything. I wonder if I'll stay like that for a while. The game I'm currently playing through seems to help as well. Yea, I tend not to post much stuff, and I'll usually just comment on various things. But this post was special. I kind of got wrapped up into the idea, and I don't really have an outlet. Reddit doesn't work, and neither does Facebook. I can't really talk about it with family, as most of my family wouldn't be able to follow, or doesn't care, or just ignores me anyway. And I don't really have any friends. So I figured hubski would be the best place to post my thoughts. As I said, this stuff has been on my mind for a while, which is why I was able to write so much on it. Though, I'm considering doing another (unrelated) post in the near future. Hopefully it'll be as thought provoking as this.Another comment, this post has some great bits in it, stuff I've really empathized with at one time or another, but I think your conclusions are wrong. I really do. It reminds me of the post in the "what do you want to be when you grow up" thread the other day, with the human condition observation stuff -- and crap I'm incoherent -- but basically you're right about everything, especially:
BUT -- why does this depress you? Why do you feel stuck?
Another case of me agreeing with someone on hubski but drawing completely different conclusions from that consensus.
Life is fascinating and incredible and if you're even bothering to read about quantum suicide that means you grasp some of its most beautiful facets.
I fucking love that we as a species have no idea why we're here, or if there is a why, that maybe we're here for no reason but chance.
Or maybe we have a grand purpose, but you I and will be long dead before it's realized.
Keep making posts like this. I should really stop getting on hubski while I'm drunk, but I enjoyed thinking about this.
Partly, the many-worlds hypothesis is the only hypothesis that logically makes sense. As I said, I've yet to see any other viewpoint (than the one I posted) that is complete and makes logical sense. My view point also fits in perfectly with string theory as well as the various multiverse theories.
Nothing requires the universe to make logical sense. Water, for example, is one of a handful of chemical compounds that expands in phase transition from liquid to solid. Ice is less dense than water - a true anomaly in the physical world. If it didn't, every time a lake froze a layer of ice would descend downward to smother all life underneath. Life on earth would be confined to the tropics. Yet we have bizarre, irrational ice and as a consequence, fish live through the winter. Occam's razor has been blunted many times on the conundrum that is quantum mechanics. Do not suppose that just because something "makes sense" it must therefore be true, particularly when one is discussing quarks.Partly, the many-worlds hypothesis is the only hypothesis that logically makes sense.
This is a battle I get into over and over in my life. The universe obeys certain laws of interaction between particles and that's the end of it. Nothing that we think should happen matters. As David Hume pointed out, you can't get an 'ought' from an 'is'. Water is a great example of this, not only for the ice not sinking, but also because of its unreasonably high surface tension and boiling point. None of these qualities are predictable; we can only see them empirically. Life itself doesn't really make sense, but why should it? Logic is a construct of language, not of the universe itself. When we ascribe our version of 'logic' to science we get awesome things like eugenics.Nothing requires the universe to make logical sense.
I think I can follow you. Or, at least know I tried. The way my perspective is constructed is like a flat, infinite grid. You start on one point and every second you move on the plane. The problem with my flat grid is that you can't jump up from your path. You can't leave the paths as you can't go out of yourself. Every decision is a new path, every outcome is path-dependant. No way to leave it. Some decisions lead to death, the reset button, early, some later. In the end, what consists of 'you' is the tree that started when you were born, with all the different lives branching off into the distance. But it is a finite tree, and that is all that matters. Your life now is the path that you currently take on the grid. Every second passing means that less outcomes will be available to you. At the same time, it builds you: your experiences define who you are, who the person traveling the infinite grid is. What I hope, the purpose I created for myself, is that there is one path for me that is the best. The One. If I can take the right decisions, I'll end up at an outcome that is The End. Isn't that what the zen idea is all about? Living your lives until you can finally do it right. Maybe then, I can jump.Somehow, no matter how I approach the problem, I keep returning to this point. Infinitely many perspectives, infinitely many choices. With no point, no purpose.
I've done this thinking. What it's left me with is, live life to the fullest because why not? And, do not go gently into that good night. EDIT: Incidentally, this is essentially where the logical trail that leads to cogito ergo sum starts, but I'm sure you know that.I've recently stumbled upon a phrase that made me reconsider this question. "There can't be nothing, as having nothing means you have the concept of nothing".
live life to the fullest because why not
I think a big component of happiness and/or peace is finding the strength of will to change the things you can, and learning to accept the things you can't change. I think the latter becomes more difficult the more educated one becomes. But not impossible.There can't be nothing
cogito ergo sum
Incidentally, I used to think Nihilism and Solipsism were the same thing, until I started looking into them a few months ago. Apparently Metaphysical Nihilists actually reject cogito ergo sum, arguing that existence may not be distinguishable from nonexistence.
I get Solipsism, but Nihilism is a little too left-field for me. But still intriguing.
This is something that's actually been bothering me. My interests don't really line up with everyone else's. Yet, I keep finding media that has characters, settings, etc. that match them almost perfectly. I wish I could just jump into one of those worlds and just live out my days in there, instead of in the one I find myself in currently. I can't decide whether solipsism or nihilism describes my thoughts better. Maybe neither, maybe both. It's not quite just one person, but it's not nothing either. As nothing can't exist logically, so nihilism must be false. I had this thought a while back that nothing is simply everything. Like we are all just bits of nothingness. Data perceived in a certain way. Or rather, nothingness perceived in a certain way. As if we are all looking into this nothingness, and this is what we see. Solipsism itself is close to how I see consciousness, but not quite. It's not just one observer viewing a world. But rather a single observer from every observation point. You aren't just nothing to me, you are me. I watched this atheist radio show once (I think it's in texas or something, they are popular on youtube). And they kind of just laughed at a solipsist who called in. I found it amusing what they said. They stated that they guy shouldn't have bothered since he doesn't believe they are real anyway. But really, what is real? Are dreams real? Is this real? What about media? Are fantasies and thoughts real? What about alternate worlds? Is the past real? What if this is a dream? Just made for someone's sleep. Or perhaps we are in a computer simulation. I hear some researchers are working on seeing if we are. Or perhaps a computer simulation inside of a dream? Whose to say what's what? cogito ergo sum seems flawed. I can't stand the thought that I exist. It's not logical. It doesn't make sense. The whole system would work a lot better if I didn't "be". But I know I am because I am. It's not just thinking. I can think separately from my "am"ness. So I really have two trains of thought. My "am" thoughts, and my "not am" thoughts. The thoughts that kind of just flow out of me without me being able to review them. I hate these thoughts. They slip out, and I can't stop them. And they usually cause havoc. It's like a different person but not. To the outside observer these are the same. But to me, or rather my "am", they are clearly different. And then there's the stuff that forces itself into my head. What's that about? That's a third, yet separate, train of thought completely. It mostly is just music or something, but sometimes it's silent. I can't really recall if it ever did anything insightful, but it's there anyway. Are these all "me"? Which one do I need for "cogito ergo sum" to be true? The "am"? Or the "me" that doesn't get reviewed? There's been a few studies that show that the "am" is actually a few seconds behind the decision making process. So that really means I'm just an observer, correct? And I suppose that means everyone else goes through this "am" thing as well. Again, all observers. Which would explain that third train of thought as well. Things pop in, we review them, say which are good, and then send it to the actual "me". And the actual "me" only sends stuff it thinks it needs to review. I'm wearing myself out now, so I'm just gonna stop. I don't think Nihilism is right, but I don't think solipsism is right either. It's some sort of weird mix. Or perhaps neither.and learning to accept the things you can't change. I think the latter becomes more difficult the more educated one becomes. But not impossible.
Incidentally, I used to think Nihilism and Solipsism were the same thing, until I started looking into them a few months ago. Apparently Metaphysical Nihilists actually reject cogito ergo sum, arguing that existence may not be distinguishable from nonexistence. I get Solipsism, but Nihilism is a little too left-field for me. But still intriguing.
Have you read the short story The Egg by Andy Weir? I think you would find it very interesting.a single observer from every observation point. You aren't just nothing to me, you are me.
I've butted up against this line of thought quite a bit, and every time I just let it go and just get on with whatever I'm doing. But it's been nagging me for a while. You say live life to the fullest, but to the fullest of what? The most experiences? What defines an experience? How does one determine what is full and what is empty? I've set some pretty arbitrary and random goals for myself. Stuff that I think might make me happy. At least, it'd surround me with things I enjoy. As to how I get there, I have a rough idea. But ultimately it's all pointless anyway. So I might as well just drift along and do what I enjoy. As for your image, I'm not quite sure what it's supposed to mean. I'm bad with meanings. It kind of makes me thing that it's like those images that I mentioned in my post. That show that it's dark/bad/depressing, and as you gradually go forth it gets better. But as I said, I don't see how that's possible besides resorting back to the ignorance (or feigned ignorance) of the topic. That's not really rational or scientific. Right right. I actually started at cogito ergo sum. My post above obviously started elsewhere, as that's where my mind was at the time of writing. But when I was younger, cogito ergo sum was definitely one of the things I thought about.I've done this thinking. What it's left me with is, live life to the fullest because why not?
Incidentally, this is essentially where the logical trail that leads to cogito ergo sum starts.
I raved and frothed a bit below after I wrote this. I'm thinking a bit. That image is supposed to mean that we as a species are capable of greatness unparalleled, because we are. I think I'm special. I'm human. Humans wrote Principia. Humans split the atom. Humans can believe in things against all evidence, and sometimes they're right. I haven't been alive very long, and I've seen some pretty awe-inspiring things. I trust I'll see more. And if the meaning of life reveals itself somewhere along the way, that's just gravy: if I died tomorrow I would feel pretty good about what I've experienced. I'd like to hang on to that feeling.
In the grand scheme of things, humans are an obvious result. Infinite configurations. Infinite options. Each one with billions of galaxies, billions of stars, billions of planets. Each having the opportunity for life. This life then evolves into what survives. It then develops ways of communicating until it can think about it's own existence. I mean, it has to happen. As it can't not happen. It did, so it obviously must. And it's probably happened billions if not trillions of other times as well. True, but evidence is always correct (assuming it's not forged). Just because you derive the wrong conclusion doesn't mean that the evidence was wrong. I dunno. It's just all kind of bland and boring. I feel like if I had someone to talk to (in real life, not on hubski) things would be different. Perhaps I wouldn't care about this so much. But I don't see much point in seeing any particular awe-inspiring thing, as I'll just forget it in less than 5 years. I can't remember much of anything from before 3 years ago. And hell, I have a hard time remembering what happened yesterday. I guess I'm just looking for satisfaction.That image is supposed to mean that we as a species are capable of greatness unparalleled, because we are. I think I'm special. I'm human.
Humans can believe in things against all evidence,
I haven't been alive very long, and I've seen some pretty awe-inspiring things. I trust I'll see more. And if the meaning of life reveals itself somewhere along the way, that's just gravy: if I died tomorrow I would feel pretty good about what I've experienced.
The greatest baseball player in the history of Japan is named Sadaharu Oh. He still holds the professional record for the most home runs hit in a baseball career. Now, all American professional baseball players spend their offseasons training, running, lifting weights and eating healthy foods, in the pursuit of excellence. Sadaharu Oh, I once read, spent his offseasons meditating under a waterfall. I assume he was after a different sort of excellence. That is not bland. Or boring. I first read about Sadaharu many more than five years ago, and I was just as awed then as I am now. Knowing this satisfies me, as does knowing that there are millions of ideas and truths that I don't yet grasp. We are talking at cross-purposes.
I've looked into it a bit. It's too dogmatic without logic. Some ideas I could really get behind, and after I looked at it kind of brought me to my thoughts on the whole consciousness part. But overall buddhism has too many different rules and such that (like other religions) don't really have any point. Buddhism (on the topic of meaning) as you mentioned, teaches to just "be" and accept that there's no meaning. Which as I mentioned in my comment, I'm completely unable to do. Because I have that nagging question at the back of my mind.