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comment by _refugee_
_refugee_  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Obligatory Influx Opinions Post  ·  x 2

I'm going to answer all these questions. I'm going to come across negative. There's no downgoats here bitches, deal.

1. What do we think of an influx of users?

a) Content has...well, here, I'll phrase this another way: all of a sudden my feed is positively flooded with #askhubski. Some of these asks seem redundant, but they've succeeded even though to me, they look redundant. This seems indicative of a problem I'm afraid is going to happen here on Hubski that I'm going to address below. I'm not a fan of all these asks, nor do I think they are as truly "deep" as they could be. Some of them seem like gratuitous "ask Reddit" questions that, by the way, you Reddit users, have been asked a million times on Reddit and you'll find great answers to your questions...over there. I sound like a jerk who doesn't want these new users here.

You know what? Maybe I am and maybe that's how I feel.

2. How do we expect it to affect us?

b) It's already affecting us. I'm worried that what's going to happen is we have this large influx of users from Reddit that see the community, jump in, and start participating. They don't really realize it but they change the content and topics discussed on Hubski. However, because the community is still smaller and more personable than Reddit, it still feels great... to them. We notice a change because we've been here longer but they notice a change as well because they're coming from the seething behemoth of the internet, mostly inane, sometimes made-up, that is Reddit. They like the change and they continue to feed the different topics/content because it's still different to them! The old guard becomes a minority. I stop recognizing usernames. Eventually I stop paying attention to usernames because, guess what, community is big enough that I don't think I'll see most of these people again in other comment threads, and the interpersonal communication gets lost. kleinbl00 says, just ignore users. Trust me, I'm going to give this a bit of time and see but then yeah I'm probably going to start laying that hammer down. I don't like it, but I also don't like the changes I'm seeing. They're not terrible, no, but as soon as I see a pun thread, pure image posts, or novelty accounts, I'm going to punch my screen.

And I'm waiting for that day.

Then I'm going to reach through the screen and strangle whoever it is propagating it.

3. How do we feel about a larger community?

c) Makes things harder. Makes it harder to care. Gives people more anonymity. I valued Reddit for its anonymity, I value(d) Hubski for its people. Don't get me wrong I'm not throwing in the towel. I'm very trepidatious. Pluses: generates more content. Downsides: Doesn't necessarily generate more quality content. Plus: Broadens the range of topics. Also a downside. There seems to be an influx of gamers/technies, which is fine, but Hubski never had that as a solid base as opposed to Reddit back in the day. I can't relate so much to that. Plus: potentially more original content. Downside: Potentially more trolls, people making up stories for attention, and potentially LOTS more SHITTY original content.

4. How do we feel about being linked? Should it be selective or not?

d) Hate it. Wish we could make it so it didn't happen. Not a fan of getting all this traffic from Reddit, there's a reason (lots of reasons) I'm not on Reddit any more. Way back a while ago some user, I think syncretic, kept promoting the #reddit tag and also the subreddit r/hubski on Reddit. I pointed out, why would I ever go to Reddit to see updates from Hubski? I'm on Hubski because I want to be on Hubski. I don't want to cross-pollinate. Moreover, r/hubski just drove traffic away from Hubski which didn't make sense to me. Don't know if it's still active. Haven't seen syncretic around and he didn't reply to my post with my rebuttals to "why isn't this cross-pollination successful" or what-have-you. That's fine, I had pretty salient points and I could understand if he didn't like them, since he seemed on the opposite end of the spectrum as I am (he says "Combine all the things!" and I say "Compartmentalize all the things!")

4a. There have also been chatterings in the past of invite-only. Thoughts?

e) Is it hypocritical if I don't like this because then it makes this site an elite snobby club? I don't mind new users finding us. I mind a huge flood of new users coming over from AskReddit. It wasn't so bad when we got the flood from theoryofreddit because let's be honest, that's a relatively smaller subreddit that has a focus on intellectual conversation and navel-gazing. AskReddit, however, is the dregs of the internet, full of trolls, liars, people looking to "game" you just for attention. It is full of a very wide spectrum of people and typically has very low quality of content. Moreover, most of those top comments are extreme, ridiculous, and (if I'm being kind with my words) dubious. Yes, sometimes there are touching stories. And then sometimes those touching stories are lies. I don't mind being told a good story but I mind being told a good story that masquerades as truth but isn't. I don't mind being told a good story but I mind when people decide they want to start up a fund for someone who they think is dying of cancer when that person isn't. Let's not feed into Internet Munchausen syndrome. Let's not feed attention whores.

5. Do we have a damage control plan in case a large number of new users don't... follow the rules, explicit or implied. Is banning going to need to come in?

f) As I said above kleinbl00 would say the ignore button. I've never used it and I don't like that I'm going to have to - I feel like I should give people a chance - but oh, I am thinking about it. Banhammer? I feel like people would need to be really egregious before anyone would be willing to banhammer. After all, our second-most popular poster is ahametals with 0 followers because all he posts is self-promoting spam. He's not banned. We all just ignore him. Most people I don't think even know he exists.

6. How do we attend to keeping this a person-oriented third place?

g) Well first of all the surge is going to have to die down and we're going to have to see who sticks around and who doesn't. It's going to be a lot harder now. The more people, the harder it is to get to know each of them, recognize their names, etc. If I'm at a party and I meet 10 new people I'm good if I remember all their names at the end of the night. If I'm at a party or a bar and I meet one or two I can remember their names and have a good conversation with them, maybe exchange phone numbers, maybe forge a real connection.

Addendum: I literally came in to work early today so I could get on this thread. I care about Hubski and really love it and the people I've met through here and I'm just worried about many of the aspects of the site that are, inevitably, going to degrade. I suppose "degrade" is a strong word and if I was being nice I could just say "change." Change isn't always bad. But I'm also kind of frustrated by the fact that I keep getting 502 bad gateway errors when I try to access this site and basically all these new people are standing in between me and the place I want to be (inside the club having a good time). It's like - my favorite bar is in a college town. During the summer the whole town empties out and the bar is empty except for regulars and townies and it's wonderful and lonely and nice. Now all the college kids are in (and yes, I know about Eternal September ) and all of a sudden I'm in the back of the line jostling to get into a place where, damn it, I should be able to get in without getting carded and I should be able to sit down, grab a drink and start up conversations with the regulars, except I can't find the regulars for all the loud kids who aren't going to stay and aren't going to bring value, and the bartenders are running all over the place busy as fuck.

After that, I don't freaking know.

To the new people who have submitted quality comments or content: Yes. I acknowledge that you exist and I'm interested to see what you bring to the site. I don't unilaterally hate you all. But it also irritates me when people are like "OMG Hubski is so young!" or whatever. It's like, seriously, do your due diligence. Hubski's been around for a few years at this point, it's just new to you.

Maybe we could make it so that you can't submit a post until you have a full hubwheel from comments. I saw that you can't submit a community tag until you have a full hubwheel and I kind of liked that. But again, I have a really hard time saying flat-out "we should just make it hard for people to participate in Hubski." To be clear, that's not what I want. I don't want inanity, superficiality, trolls, or Reddit's influence.





thenewgreen  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I have a long response to this, but my short one is patience my friend. This has all happened before and the community was/is better for it. Have faith in people, I've been reading a lot of wonderful comments/posts. The good will stay and the less good will get bored.

More to come, at the veterinary clinic.

_refugee_  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I know. See my reply to zonk.

Part of my worry is that we are going to become troll fodder. I don't want the feeling that I am getting to know real, great, awesome people online to be replaced by "Is this true? Is this person lying to me?" I think about trolls and Hubski vs. Reddit a bit. So far I mostly trust everyone on Hubski is real. I trust that I know no one on Reddit and that a lot of people game the system.

I don't want Hubski to turn into that.

And to think, I used to scoff at the idea of having online friends.

thenewgreen  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I feel ya. Really I do. I'm going to be curating my feed more in the following days, probably following less tags and just the people that I followed prior to this. Letting in those that I can tell are genuine. For example, zonk seems real :)

But, the global posts on the top bar are going to be much different than they previously were. There's just much more content.

aside: I finished the podcast on writing and I've listened to it countless times. I absolutely adore the way you say the word "grasps." I know it sounds crazy, but it's awesome.

_refugee_  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Haha, thanks. Listening to podcasts and recordings, especially of oneself, makes you pay attention to the minutest of details. I like it when you can hear my smile in my voice. I am really, really looking forward to the podcast.

ButterflyEffect  ·  4082 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yes! I'm excited for this podcast, as I have been with all the other podcasts that have been done.

_refugee_  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

P.S. I hope whatever you're at the vet for, your pets are ok.

thenewgreen  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Thanks. All is well.

zonk  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Ugh, I feel like your comment is almost depressing. So much negativity. As one of the recent new members, I feel like I should be super careful now what I submit to not eventually scrape off the flair of the veterans here and get scolded by them :/ I mean at one point you were new too, and what would you have thought upon reading such a comment by the veterans back then?

Also, I was one of the bad guys who called hubski young, even though knowing it's been around for more than 6 months. Nowadays there are communities that are more than 10 years old, so of course hubski is still young. A year for a community is nothing, it's always about the perspective.

Regarding restrictions for new users: It may solve an issue or two and maybe it should be tested. Personally, I wouldn't mind not being able to share links and only be able to comment, since that's what I like doing most anyway.

kleinbl00  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    As one of the recent new members, I feel like I should be super careful now what I submit to not eventually scrape off the flair of the veterans here and get scolded by them :/

There was a time, call it '92 to 2000, when it was considered the newbiest, most assholish thing in the world to join a new forum and start posting without lurking for a month or more first. Then AOL happened and the world became HEY GUISE WATS NEW HERE.

Diaspora (RIP) gave everyone a #newhere tag when they started up their accounts. You followed it until you figured out how to unfollow it. Note that I don't blame the new blood for flooding the fuck out of #askhubski because there's no search, features were curtailed and you had no idea what the hell else to do. But I think it's an important lesson for insomniasexx and thenewgreen and mk and the rest of the posse that I'm forgetting that Hubski needs a failSAFE mode, not a failFRIVOLOUS mode.

You should have been put in a nice, friendly, nerfed-out, training-wheels place where you can explore, poke around, figure shit out and NOT upset what was already here.

ProtrudedDemand  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I still thing it's wrong to join any community before spending some time lurking. I spent a good week or so reading through Hubski posts before I did anything "real" with it. I did the same when I joined Reddit or any other community I've been a part of. I'll even do it when I find a new subreddit that I like.

I think it's important to understand the community that you want to become part of. You have to test the water to make sure you actually like it. If you do like it, you like it for what it is. Jumping in and disturbing the water will change the nature of the community that you wanted to become part of.

zonk  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Thanks for the little bit of background info and history, I wasn't aware of everything you mentioned. And yes, as I agreed with the other comment, some restrictions for new users wouldn't be too crazy in my eyes, maybe there will be a solution acceptable for all.

kleinbl00  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I wouldn't even see them as restrictions - after all, if you're smart enough to figure out how to disable them, they aren't restrictions. Just as most video games don't throw you into expert mode on day 1, Hubski (and Reddit) ought to set you up in such a way that you don't piss people off on day 1. It's a fight I've had with the admins since Alexis was actually doing work: why the fuck do you have default subreddits at all? The answer, of course, is "because traffic." Since Hubski doesn't think like that, we've more of a chance.

zonk  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Oh yes, when I talked about restrictions I meant things like "no posting until you get a badge with comments" or something like that. Something like those default settings which you have to find out yourself would be perfect, although I couldn't come up spontaneously with ideas how to realize them.

b_b  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

And just to add to what kleinbl00 said: we're always open to suggestions on how to make the site better. "Because traffic" will never hold water around here (although, of course we want more traffic, just the right kind of traffic). If in the future you have any ideas, feel free to let us know. Some people use the #bugski tag, even though that was set up for actual bugs. I wonder if we should have like #suggestionbox or something. That might work.

thenewgreen  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I wonder if we should have like #suggestionbox or something. That might work.
-Good idea.
_refugee_  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I realize that my comment is negative. It is also honest.

It is not my job to be yanyone's cheerleader. I am not on Hubski so I can smile, pretend I think things are going great, and make everyone feel like a warm fuzzy bunny. I am on Hubski to think and to talk. If I can't be honest about how I feel about Hubski while on Hubski, what's the damn point?

I admit at the bottom of my post that there are new users that look like they might be good here. I admit at the top of it that it's negative. I am aware that I am being a pessimist in this situation.

Hubski has been around for nearly three years, natch. Yes, it's relatively young compared to, let's say, 4chan, but I think users are confusing "new to me" with "new in general." You're not a bad guy. It's just an annoying choice of semantics.

I am inviting you, and anyone else, to defy my expectations. I know that I need to sit back and wait and see how it's going and I am trying very hard to do so. I know that once upon a time I was a new user at this website and yes, I did even come in on a wave of users (I think). Before that I was a new user at Reddit; I came over at the fall of Digg. My username is not picked by chance or whimsy. This also means that when I came over to Reddit, I saw tons of comments like this. It made me curious as to what the site was like beforehand, and, as I expect will be the case here, I loved what I saw, became a member of the community, and thought it was great. It was only over the course of three years at Reddit that I began to be able to see the decline of the community. You have to be here beforehand to see the impact. And what's also true is that when you are there beforehand, you are probably going to be resistant to change, even if that change eventually turns to be for the better.

My perspective is biased, flawed, and I acknowledge these things. I'm generally a pessimist and I've also seen the way this goes for other websites. Moreover, as a person and as a contributer to this website, my perspective is valued (admittedly, probably only by some) precisely because it is biased and flawed. That is the nature of having a personality.

Don't be careful. Don't mind me. I would ask that you try to use this site with respect but then I come across like I am taking this website far too seriously: it is only a website, after all.

I think the most valuable thing to remember when using Hubski is that the whole point of Hubski is fostering intelligent, thoughful discussion. That's what the two of us are doing right here and now. In that way, it's great. Don't take my comments personally. They are just my thoughts and they're not aimed at anyone in particular.

As for Kafke, I've got my eye on you. You seem pretty cool. And zonk, I'll keep an eye out for you and see what you're doing as well. Please. Defy my expectations. I'm just often used to people merely living up to them.

kleinbl00  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    It is not my job to be yanyone's cheerleader. I am not on Hubski so I can smile, pretend I think things are going great, and make everyone feel like a warm fuzzy bunny. I am on Hubski to think and to talk. If I can't be honest about how I feel about Hubski while on Hubski, what's the damn point?

And that is why you are one of three people I follow.

    Before that I was a new user at Reddit; I came over at the fall of Digg.

Reddit started failing when the knuckledraggers in /b/ discovered they could get points for sharing f7u12 cartoons in /r/fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu. They emigrated en masse. Most of the shit on Reddit is directly related to awkward teens and tweens herping and derping about poop and rejection in amongst the defaults. The Digg thing was a lot more seamless than most people really want to believe; it wasn't an erroneous data point at all.

_refugee_  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I hate f7u12 cartoons. Passionately.

Also, and thank you. I send you internet love. It is worth approximately .0000000000003 bitcoin.

zonk  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Well, that's a refreshingly honest and open self-analysis. And it relativises the other post quite a bit.

The first post just even made me afraid to post stuff under a new, not well established tag like for example #ps4 or #playstation, even though I'd love to play with some people here once it's released. Because what if the veterans are no gamers and don't like the r/gaming subreddit and fear it becomes the same here? And your comment had quite a few shares, so what if the majority agrees here with you?!

As you pointed out, everything here seems to be more 'personal' and things are more tied to your nickname, because of your followers etc., so you have to be extra careful not to get into fights or contradict with the old guard and their vision or image of hubski they have.

But as I said, your comment put it into another light and made some things sound less harsh ;)

And I'm pretty sure I'm aware of the major differences between this website here and reddit, at least the very basics and that's why I commented here in 2 days probably more than on reddit in 2 months. So don't be afraid of new things, young users can bring refreshing new content that still resembles the spirit of the 'old' hubski!

user-inactivated  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Don't ever ever be afraid to post! As kleinbl00 pointed out, hubski will sort itself out.

_refugee_  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I wouldn't be afraid to post, especially appropriately under tags. I - and everyone else - can always unfollow or mute a tag. Honestly, if you tag things, I think that's better. I'd rather mute a tag than a user.

P.S. zonk - in re-read, you clearly read my entire super-huge-long text post about my opinions and biases, and I appreciate that. That's honestly the kind of user I'd like to see here. And thank you for the discussion. I'm glad my second reply tempered your worries a bit. I've been cranky because I haven't been able to get on Hubski, frankly.

PeterC  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think this is how I'd feel if I was an old member here. Unfortunately I'm new, so I'm a bit conflicted.

I think if there are changes, they'll be minimal. There are only three ways that new members can handle the next few days.

1) The people who don't work here will go back to Reddit, as I'm sure a lot of people already have.

2) Those who try to force themselves will be ostracized by the existing community, like the user, ahametals, that you mentioned.

3) The people who mesh will integrate and provide more quality content after they learn the ropes.

The first two will settle, but it seems like you're most concerned about the last part of the third option: "after they learn the ropes". It's always difficult learning new things, and communities are so much more intricate. It's going to be a bit rough for newer members like me who really enjoy the community but are afraid to participate because they might be a nuisance. But if we're staying, we'll get it. We'll have to or there will be no reason to stay. So that's how people work.

I respect your opinion, and I'd have the same if I were you. This situation really isn't all that bad for hubski though, so I hope you'll see things settle down after a few more days.

ProtrudedDemand  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's ok to be afraid of being a nuisance. It can be pretty helpful to have that kind of mentality. At least it is when you're joining a new community. It helps you pay attention to how people act and what they expect. It helps you learn how you can actually benefit the community instead of just adding to the noise.

zebra2  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I can relate to everything you're saying here. I'll admit the askhubski post I made about sharing was really more of an attempt to make a disguised PSA to new members on how to use sharing on the site. There's been a flood of activity that is not necessarily enriching the Hubski experience. I feel bad for saying it but that's what I think.

The problem isn't new users, but when a bunch of new users come at once from one source they bring their own community instead of becoming part of Hubski's.

Hubski's architecture is designed so that you can build your own experience. That's really being put to the test now. That's good though because we can learn some stuff from it to make the site better. Right now there's a couple things I think could be improved mk: ignoring needs to be more refined: I'd like to see separate ignoring for users posts and user comments. I'd also like to see the ability to put a user on a sort of "probation", as in ignore them for a month. There's users I'm tempted to ignore but only as they get acclimated to the site, not forever. If I ignore them I'll just forget about it or be unable to discern who I want to ignore permanently from those who were just in "probation".

insomniasexx  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You had me at "There's no downgoats here bitches, deal."

swoon

_refugee_  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Haha, thanks :)

ahametals  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Hi I am a little mixed up with "me(ahametals)" being mentioned in this post. I am glad to know that I am the second-most popular poster - with yeah 0 followers! But it's okay I'm just starting out to make sense. You know figuring out such ideas to get a big hit?

Anyway, yes I am promoting all that I have posted in my website but I am also avoiding to be tagged as spam but there it ism I am now aware of that.

As I can feel and see it, I am ignored here but I know not totally. I don't have enough time to look at anyone's posts here but I do reply to any comments on my shares.

I am thankful that I am not banned. Thank you guys for having me still. Will reach out to you as I wanted too.

nowaypablo  ·  3803 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Hi ahametals, just to be clear you are not one of the most popular posters, you are the most active posters, which means you are one of the users that post the most times.

On your profile, it seems like you post your own website daily, advertising products. I'm not an admin, developer, or any way a representative of Hubski, but I don't think this is anything besides spam. It is spam. This comment here is very old, but you are still sharing as of today, so just letting you know. I'm going to ignore you now, but new users who join the site might come across your advertisements first before anything interesting, and that might discourage them or make them think poorly of Hubski. So, you are actively hurting Hubski by spamming it. Just letting you know.

humanodon  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Make sure to share the post so the people you want to see it, see it!

_refugee_  ·  4083 days ago  ·  link  ·  

[fake-curmedgeonly] Oh, fine, fine.