I assumed from his writing that he was female. I just now followed some links to his website and realized that I was wrong. I went back and read the piece where the protagonist seemed female (to me) and even though, in the comments, the author had used "he" to describe the character, I had somehow missed that - so convinced I was of the character and author's gender.
When I saw the character as a boy not a girl, the story seemed a little different -- but it really wasn't. My opinion of the writing did not change. I was just a little stunned at my own assumptions.
Of course I knew that 95% of active Hubski contributors (from a study six months ago) were male and I usually assume that everyone (with some notable exceptions) are male - still I was surprised at my mistake.
Someone referred to me as "he" in a post some time ago. I was amused.
What about you?
Have you assumed the gender of an author on hubski or elsewhere only to discover you were wrong?
Can you tell from a person's writing if they are m or f or some variation?
Do we co-create an identity for other people if they are minimally self-presenting?
Did you deliberately choose a gender-ambiguous online name? Some of the people I follow have, what I would describe as a womanly name, even though I KNOW this person is male.
I always assume people on the internet are male unless I'm on twitter or facebook or something with an avatar or I know the user. I don't really assume too much and tend to focus on the story or point without their gender coming into play. Even though I'm female and it mildly annoys me when people make this assumption, I have yet to figure out a way to break this habit. I agree it is a bit disorienting when you come to the realization that their gender is something you didn't expect. I remember reading something on some forum years ago that was a girl talking about her boyfriend. About halfway through they mentioned something about gay stereotypes and I remember thinking that was odd and irrelevant. Couple sentences later it FINALLY penetrates my thick skull that it was a gay guy talking about his relationship. I felt idiotic and had to reexamine everything I had read and assumed with this new information. I remember not that much changed. Turns out relationships have their ups and downs and struggles and amazing moments whether it's between the same or opposite sexes. I used to get upset when people would say "Thank you sir" or refer to me as a "he" but it doesn't really bother me anymore. On reddit, if I'm trying to make a point or say something in a bigger subreddit, I kind of like it if it is assumed I'm male because I feel like my real point comes across more and the "OP is a female" distortion glass doesn't come into play. This might mostly be my imagination.
Why do you think males and females use social media websites (like Hubski) so differently? And why do you feel you enjoy spending your time on Hubski and (it seems) few other women do? I genuinely have no clue.
Why do you think males and females use social media websites differently? If you were to make a list of 10 reasons why you visit hubski, I'm pretty sure insomniasexx would share at least 8 of them.
theadvancedapes this is a response to your question. Oops. I'm really not sure. I would guess that the entire community, males or females, use the hubski for similar reasons. Why more females don't "get it" or enjoy it is beyond me. It might be purely a discovery issue. If we look at where the new users are coming from, it might be that they are all male dominated sites. It would be interesting to get a deeper look at the personality traits or areas of study or something to see if the ladies on Hubski share some something that makes us find enjoyment from sites like Hubski, and see if that trait isn't shared with females who don't like hubski. I can say personally that there are a number of reasons I like Hubski - I like reading interesting stories and getting my fix of news as well as being part of an engaging community. I especially like the original content - whether it be music, stories, poetry, photography, or something else. From a more practical standpoint, I use Hubski because it gives me what I first got when I used reddit. When I first joined reddit I was a senior in high school, I was had a serious passion video production & broadcast journalism and I was looking for a new way to absorb all the stories out there and find lesser known stories to cover for my schools weekly news show. News on TV (even the former reputable CNN was on a downward spiral) was lacking the true journalism that I was learning about in school. I discovered reddit by chance and saw immediately the potential. I got the top news stories from reputable sources and I got a team of people discussing the viewpoints of the stories right there. You could have arguments, see other people's views (in a much more intelligent format that NYT's comment section) and get links to learn more about a subject or person. I got addicted to the knowledge that any doubts I had while reading the story would quickly be flushed out in the comment section. Once I was hooked, I quickly started to see the joy in subreddits besides the news ones. I had a community of editors to help me when my Final Cut Pro codecs were messing up, I had a community of true friends in a subreddit-based tinychat, and then watched as one of guys in the community build another video chat site, icanhazchat.com. Some of the people I consider my absolute best friends in the world were formed in late nights studying at NYU on video chat with a bunch of internet personalities. Then I found hubski and got that same mix of community and a source for learning and discovering new things.
I will say that I have always had more guy friends than girl friends. I usually have one or two close girlfriends but my best friends and people who I know will always be there for me are guys. I also tend to hang out, have late nights, etc with guys. I've noticed from /r/twoxchromosomes that this is a fairly common thing for the girls on reddit. Pinterest is one of the unique social media sites where a majority of users are female. I'm not sure if that is because the content is overwhelming female content (weddings, flowers, cooking, interior design, etc), or the content is overwhelming female because the users like the Pinterest UI & format more.
Great and thoughtful response. Thanks. This is interesting, and kind of deepens the mystery for me. So it seems like a lot of social media websites are built around "guy culture" and the girls that gravitate towards it feel more comfortable interacting with males than females. That makes sense. I have an idea as to the cause of this that comes from evolutionary studies. Chimpanzee communities are female philopatric, meaning that the male-male bonds are stronger than the female-female bonds. This is caused by females being the "dispersing sex" (i.e., upon reaching sexual maturity they must leave their natal group and find a new group to spend their adult lives - whereas the males can stay in their natal groups for their entire lives). All primates have some form of philopatric system and whichever sex stays in the natal group, usually have stronger social bonds. (side note: the reason for philopatry is a mechanism to decrease inbreeding). Anyway, in humans I feel as though we are the opposite of chimpanzees (i.e., male philopatric). It may be controversial and not at all proven, but I think over evolutionary times men were the dispersing sex. It seems to me that female-female bonds are a lot stronger naturally than male-male bonds. In fact, a big problem in the modern world (to me anyway) is how impoverished male social life can be (without the aid of females). Could it be that because of this that males use websites like Hubski and Reddit to enhance a social life that they are fundamentally dissatisfied with? Whereas females do not need to do this because they have a strong social and discussion network (thus favouring sites like Pinterest and Facebook which are not discussion based)? This would also explain why mostly only females with a lot of male friends gravitate to sites like this as well because you are immersed in the male culture that has produced this proclivity. What say you insomniasexx? Side note to mk and thenewgreen: if my hypothesis is correct, could this mean that we could attract more females by making a image and video exclusive section?I will say that I have always had more guy friends than girl friends. I usually have one or two close girlfriends but my best friends and people who I know will always be there for me are guys. I also tend to hang out, have late nights, etc with guys. I've noticed from /r/twoxchromosomes that this is a fairly common thing for the girls on reddit.
This isn't a bad hypothesis at all. I feel very different at times because of my lack of a strong female group of friends. My mom and girls at my high school all have very strong lifelong bonds. My mom just went to a weekend getaway with girls from her sorority - 30 years later! I suppose if you get all the desired interaction from people in real life, you don't have as much need for an online, discussion based community. Thinking about it, I see and experience a lot more female interaction based around things that are very specific to their situation. Things like boyfriends, marriage, inside jokes, family, etc. My best friend and I in high school never discussed much besides boys and sex and personal identity and self esteem and the rich town we grew up and resented. If we did talk deeper it was mostly about our opinions (ie: abortion) that weren't really backed up by current events or articles. Perhaps because female's conversations stay more focused on things close to them, an online forum doesn't attract them as much. When I hang out with guys the conversation can float from politics to video games to articles or television shows we heard/read/saw. Personal opinions on said things are there but are much less prevalent. Guys also don't tend to discuss their emotions or issues regarding self-esteem or desire to have babies or get married or sexual encounters in the same way girls do. Conversations with guys about sex go like this: "I went out with Mary last night." "Oh yeah, how was that?" "Yeah, we had drunk sex, it was alright" "Do you like her?" "Meh." Conversations with girls about sex can go on forever. Seriously. We can talk for hours about a 10 minute hook up.Whereas females do not need to do this because they have a strong social and discussion network (thus favouring sites like Pinterest and Facebook which are not discussion based)?
This response. This perfectly encapsulates how I feel most girls interact; and seems quite ubiquitous. From an evolutionary perspective it makes sense. Again, this rings true to me as well. For me, the fact that men have such a hard time discussing personal issues and events has led me to develop female friendships more often in young adulthood. As a result, a lot of my male friends from high school don't really know me well... they just know what movies and music I like. In order to discuss issues about my relationships or sex, etc. I need to rely on my female friendships. This broadly speaking encapsulates why females (generally) do not find Hubski as an attractive medium for social interaction. Now I am interested in why male-male and female-female interactions are generally so different. Is it evolutionary based? The ultimate cause must be (I should suspect). But how flexible is culture in forming this general discussion pattern? I know of guys who would really like to speak more openly about their personal lives (like me for instance). And I do have some guy friends where we have openly discussed these issues. Maybe it can be consciously changed? What maybe perplexes me more is why females don't (generally) tend to talk about the things you described above with your typical conversations with males. Is that a culturally flexible thing as well?Thinking about it, I see and experience a lot more female interaction based around things that are very specific to their situation. Things like boyfriends, marriage, inside jokes, family, etc. My best friend and I in high school never discussed much besides boys and sex and personal identity and self esteem and the rich town we grew up and resented. If we did talk deeper it was mostly about our opinions (ie: abortion) that weren't really backed up by current events or articles. Perhaps because female's conversations stay more focused on things close to them, an online forum doesn't attract them as much.
When I hang out with guys the conversation can float from politics to video games to articles or television shows we heard/read/saw. Personal opinions on said things are there but are much less prevalent. Guys also don't tend to discuss their emotions or issues regarding self-esteem or desire to have babies or get married or sexual encounters in the same way girls do. Conversations with guys about sex go like this: "I went out with Mary last night." "Oh yeah, how was that?" "Yeah, we had drunk sex, it was alright" "Do you like her?" "Meh." Conversations with girls about sex can go on forever. Seriously. We can talk for hours about a 10 minute hook up.
I'm not sure. It might be just my experiences with girls and my age. I'm only almost 23, so my close friendships with girls are from high school. In college I had 3 super best friends that were guys and never developed that same close relationship with any girls there. My close friends from high school are off living lives in their college towns, so I haven't really had a chance to really get close with them again. I wonder if our conversations would be different now that we're both older and have grown a lot since high school. I might ask my mom what kinds of things she typically talks about with her close friends. It would be interesting to see if as you get older and the friendship lasts longer, the conversations shift. Based on overheard phone conversations over the years, I assume she mostly talks about their kids, how difficult teenagers are, and drama surrounding who is getting remarried and what their ex-wife thinks about that. I know for a fact you aren't alone there. A lot of guys have those same desires, but rarely admit to it or do anything to talk about it. If I'm hanging out with one of my guy friends, they do open up more emotionally, but there is still a large gap between what they actually are feeling, etc and what they chose to share and how they chose to share that information. A lot of time they downplay it a lot, even though I know they are hurting or really bothered by something. It's just different. That has everything to do with evolution & society & cultural expectations. The male is supposed to fill the role as strong protector, and revealing anything that might detract from that is hard for them to do. I'm not sure how possible it is to change that. It is very engrained in our society and I suspect it will continue to be a trait passed down from generation to generation. Even as women become stronger and more independent and won't rely on men as much, I still think that gender role will be a prevalent part of society. Even now, it doesn't seem to be something to impress the ladies as much as it is something to impress or compete with other men.What maybe perplexes me more is why females don't (generally) tend to talk about the things you described above with your typical conversations with males. Is that a culturally flexible thing as well?
I know of guys who would really like to speak more openly about their personal lives (like me for instance)
I'm a bit late on the gun on this one, but I just read through what you and insomniasexx were discussing and I think what you said about the dispersing sex is really interesting. My experience actually contradicts this--I've personally seen that male-male bonds have been stronger than female-female bonds. For example, my group of male friends and I fight all the time and give each other shit constantly, but in the end it's all good, no matter how heated it gets. We get over it in a matter of hours. However I've seen my sisters and my mother lose female friends over the most trivial of matters, petty arguments. This is a generalization of course and what seems trivial to me (a male) may be a much bigger deal to a woman. I don't know. Re-reading what I just wrote I'm now realizing that it makes me either sound like I think women are petty creatures or that my sisters and mom are bitches. Neither is the case, but this is just my personal experience. I think part of it is that I was an athlete and grew up in the 'locker room' culture and the idea of 'team brotherhood' surrounded me. So it's possible that my view of male-male bonds being stronger has been influenced by that, whereas (and again, another generalization) most of the males on discussion-based sites like reddit may not have had that and thus feel as if forums are the best avenue to have those discussions. I come from a house that was practically damp in estrogen and my little sisters are big into Instagram and Pintrest and Facebook, basically all of the social network sites you would normally consider to be targeted towards females. They're your proto-typical girly girls. As you mentioned Pintrest and Facebook aren't really discussion-based sites but then insomniasexx brought up how girls can talk for hours about something like a 10 minute hookup whereas for guys the conversation lasts 10 seconds. But then online, guys are riffing for pages on a myriad of subjects where the majority of girls are content on sites that don't really feature any heavy discussion. I find that strange.
All Image submissions: http://hubski.com/imagesubs and Video submissions: http://hubski.com/vidsubs are just a click away :)
Sure, but that doesn't answer why men enjoy this site more than women do. And why men and women use social networks so differently. I'm just interested in understanding the reason for the difference.
I think gender is an interesting and difficult issue online. I purposely picked a gender-neutral handle when I started - oh, can I call it "foruming"? - spending time on Reddit and then, Hubski. I didn't want to be judged for my gender. And, I don't mind it being assumed that I'm male. In fact, in many posts I'll deliberately not state my gender or omit facts that might point out that (shocker!) I'm a girl. In fact, the name I use for poetry writing is just my initals and my last name - gender neutral. I don't want gender to come into play when it comes to a person's online opinion of me. I don't mind it being assumed I'm male or "just one of the guys" or whatever. To weigh in on the conversation going on with insomniasexx and theadvancedapes below: I have both male and female friends. Sometimes I feel more comfortable with males, sometimes with females. I think I generally like hanging out with males a little bit better but for me there's unfortunately also a trust element that comes into play with guys that doesn't with girls: can I trust this guy to respect my personal space, can I trust that he is going to maintain the friendship, essentially, instead of seeing me as potentially something more. kleinbl00 gave me advice in that thread I posted about my brother being an asshole - you remember that one? - and treated me like a dude and gave me advice that I think might have been slightly different if he'd known I was female. But you know what? I want the male advice. I don't want the censored advice or the advice that speaks down to me because I'm the "weaker gender" and I don't have to "man up." Fuck that. I want to have to man up and be as aggressive about what's important to me as anyone else - any other man. If you've got expectations for a man in a given role - I want to meet them. I don't want them changed because maybe, somehow, I'm not capable. Sometimes I get a chip on my shoulder about being female, or - physically - being small. Does this come through in how I shield my gender online? Maybe. But you know what, it's my chip, and my shoulder.
I totally thought you were a guy out with your brother back then. Here's the link for latecomers to this story Your narrative voice telling the story completely worked. Bravo. Regardless of the underlying reasons, being able to have your voice come across convincingly as male should be good for your fiction writing, when you want to make a male experience believable.
Thanks! It's funny, because at one point in the story I mention a male bartender and flirting with him, and people either just read over that and assumed the bartender was female/I was male and straight, or didn't notice it at all. That was the one spot where I was worried there was a "tell."
I would have given the same advice had I known you were female. When one says "flirt" one presumes there's a little bit of sexual something there and that's all that matters. Boy/girl, girl/girl, boy/boy, yeah, you "flirt" differently but the end result is the same. I've always presumed the "there are no girls on the Internet" works both ways - I've seen first-hand the amount of bullshit one has to put up with when one is a girl on the Internet. If someone does not say "I'm a girl" I presume they'd prefer it not enter into the conversation. There is wisdom to this. The internet is a long goddamn way from gender-neutral. Generally the best move is to be gender-unspecified. Amusingly enough, Redditors often think I'm a woman. There is a subset of humanity that apparently believes one cannot dispense advice in an empathetic fashion without possessing ovaries.
> I would have given the same advice had I known you were female. That's good. That's the kind of reality I'd like to exist in. Unfortunately I don't think it's always true for a lot of people online. Your advice was harsh - but I appreciated it, in part because of its harshness - and I did wonder if it would have been less harsh if my gender had been known. > If someone does not say "I'm a girl" I presume they'd prefer it not enter into the conversation. There is wisdom to this. I'd agree...though I think it also still plays into the male-dominated nature of the internet/forums/whatever. A guy doesn't have to state he's a male in order for it to play into the discussion; the gender is assumed. I know I'm guilty of this - I for one assume all are male unless proven otherwise, and didn't realize insomniasexx was female at first. Of course, my chip-on-my-shoulder and determination to be treated "like any man" plays into that kind of patriarchy as well. Instead of wanting to prove I'm as good as members of other genders, I shouldn't feel that kind of pressure to "measure up" - in a perfect world, anyway, right? In the meantime I'll just be a pugnacious asshole. > Generally the best move is to be gender-unspecified. Yeah. I agree.
I get this a lot. I think it comes from working in an industry were there is no time for bullshit and where only your friends will be honest with you. You're right - much of The Internet sucks ass at empathy. Devil's advocacy: 1) Gender is one of the driving forces of interaction, regardless of your sexual persuasion. As Heinlein was wont to point out, eunochs do not create art. 2) There is no such thing as a gender-neutral person. Removing gender from a discussion is unnatural and alters the conversation. 3) Tradition holds the default gender to be male. This is not a GOOD thing, but it is a thing. So, in the unpoliced wilds of the internet where chances are good the person you're talking to IS male, it's natural to presume they're male and shape the conversation that way.That's good. That's the kind of reality I'd like to exist in. Unfortunately I don't think it's always true for a lot of people online. Your advice was harsh - but I appreciated it, in part because of its harshness - and I did wonder if it would have been less harsh if my gender had been known.
I'd agree...though I think it also still plays into the male-dominated nature of the internet/forums/whatever. A guy doesn't have to state he's a male in order for it to play into the discussion; the gender is assumed.
Now I don't feel as bad about not realizing you were female until...this morning. Honestly, it's not that I thought you were male, I just didn't think about it at all. During some posts I will visually imagine the person behind the computer screen similar to how one would envision characters in novels. But this only happens if the person is telling a story, if they are just talking about something they just sort of a gray blob or their gender doesn't even cross my mind. I wish I had read your brother/bar story before I knew you were female because it would be interesting if I would've seen it. I related to that story a lot - I have a little brother who has always played sports and been popular and has a douchey jock attitude sometimes. I might have thrust myself and my gender onto you because I relate to it so much. I'm not sure.I for one assume all are male unless proven otherwise, and didn't realize insomniasexx was female at first.
My brother, the biggest asshole I know. And until recently I was confused about why I went for asshole guys...until I realized that my brother and my relationship with him probably has something to do with it! If it's one of the models of 'affection' I've had in my life since day 1, it probably makes some sort of sense that I sometimes mistakenly go for that in dating relationships. Don't feel bad at all! I keep my gender somewhat quiet here (blew my cover with my poetry submissions a bit doe) on purpose.
I used to hate my name (Ashley). As a kid, in school, kids made fun of it, calling me "unisex" (my defence when they called it a girl's name. Kids will be kids, but it's kind of ironic now, because now I love how ambiguous it is. As trans*/genderqueer, it's perfect, and I'll be able to keep it if/when I decide to transition. As for assuming gender through writing, it's at the point now where most people are neutral in my head, and this is almost definitely due to my own gender identity. Occasionally I'll find myself surprised when certain writers turn out to be a certain gender, but that's happening less often. Most of the time it's along the same lines as thenewgreen's example, and it's a pleasant surprise.
Ashley is one of those names that I've always liked. I have a cousin with the name, but she spells it Ashleigh. Has anyone ever suggested to you that your name could have influenced your sexuality? I realize that sexuality doesn't work like that, but many people don't. What is your take on the power of a name? I mean, what's in a name? No really... What's in a name?
No one's ever suggested it, but I've thought it myself. Never with a whole lot of thought, always just passing, like: how strangely appropriate. Huh. I don't know if it actually had any effect. If it did, it probably wasn't very major.
It really is rather convenient though. I'd say that is some luck there!
Well, but consider how many male names become female names. For example, Carol, Kyle, Leslie, Ryan, Lauren, Madison, Morgan, Meredith, Courtney, Ariel, etc. I read an article about how this happens, but I can't find it anymore. I don't think that this is unique to English, but now I'm interested to find out if it happens in other languages as well.
Yes, but the thing is, unpopular names generally fall out of use. They either come back much later or disappear. So it stands to reason that a popular name would stand a higher chance. On thinking a bit about the last part, many languages feature male/female forms of names that sound exactly the same or very similar and are differentiated by either a sexed vowel or sex is implicit in the spelling. English operates under different features (broadly speaking) and may contribute to the whole male name to female name migration.
The interchangeable name likely exists due to narcissism. A father wanting his name to carry on will name his daughter Lauren blah-blah II.
otherwise -lil check this song out. I love it and think you will too. I never thought this was accurate even then, but I definitely don't now. While I know that our users are by majority male, I don't think it's 95%. I would guess 80%. Especially from a content perspective. I would guess that at least 20% of comments and posts are from women. I could be wrong though and either way, ladies.... invite your interesting friends :)Have you assumed the gender of an author on hubski or elsewhere only to discover you were wrong?
Yes, and I'll not say whom. Based on how kind, sympathetic and supportive a Hubski user was towards others, including myself, I assumed they were female. I was wrong. When I found out, via a photo he posted, I was really glad. Why? Because the world needs more dudes that are sympathetic, supportive and kind.Of course I knew that 95% of active Hubski contributors (from a study six months ago) were male and I usually assume that everyone (with some notable exceptions) are male - still I was surprised at my mistake.
I haven't really thought about it, though I had one of those moments too, a few months back. Generally speaking though, most users I see popping up regularly in threads seem male to me. Sometimes it's the style of verbal grappling or some small details that give me that sense.
I came across the post that I mentioned above, where it was assumed I was a "he" - rezzeJ -- any idea what failed to tip you off? I'm at the point where I forget who is what, even when I thought I knew. Perhaps that is why the internet is a great place for the liminal among us.