Hey Hubskiverse, I doubt you share my ambivalence about marriage. Are you looking forward to marriage?
This is one reason that I reject marriage out of hand. It is historically about transfer of ownership from the father to the husband, and I, for one, don't want the responsibility of owning another human. Slavery has ended, but marriage survives. In the US, spousal rape wasn't even a crime until, what, the mid-70s in a lot of states? Its stupid and outdated. Marriage should be abolished in the eyes of the law. Leave it as a religious practice. We can already co-own a house with whomever we want. We can designate power of attorney to whomever we want. These are civil functions that fall under contract law, and man, woman, gay, strait, are all the same. Why should you get a tax break for being married? So throw that out the window. In the end, the two benefits that marriage affords that are not open to the rest of us sinners are a) being able to designate a singular person who can inherit your estate tax free (but let's be honest, in the US the estate has to be worth way more money than most of us have to even make that an issue), and b) we can't impart legal residency to an alien of our choosing. If those few things were rectified though legislation, then all of the arguments about marriage become null and void. Princess fantasies and dreams of the big, fancy wedding keep women as willing conspirators in their own enslavement. I see no place for it in modern society.Finally, for the heterosexual marriage to ever overcome its historic reputation as a relationship based on power and control -- a reality which continues in many parts of the world -- we must model equality.
Haha. Good idea. I would still resent it, though, if I know me. The idea of the wedding gift pisses me off to no end. You decide to get married; you spend way too much fucking money on a party that I'm expected to attend, know full well I won't enjoy it; and, somehow, its my responsibility to pay for the honor. Wtf is that?
There are a lot of legal rights you're forgetting that help marriage along. Mostly about the time of dying but not yet dead. Also, these 'parties' and 'Princess Fantasies' are for the most part becoming cheaper and more moderate. They are often done for the benefit and appeasing of close family, particularly parents. And if you don't want to attend and show support to two people starting out, don't RSVP. It's rather simple. Moreover, women aren't the only ones with a lot of fantasies about their 'big day.' I was surprised to learn this too, but really, what's wrong with wanting to celebrate committing yourself to another person for life? I know a lot of cynicism comes from high divorce rates, but give humanity a chance. Seriously, we hear about the people who get married 5 times and the people who have been married for 50 years, and we don't hear about those who have been faithful for 8. Why? Because it's not a juicy story. But if you don't take them into account, then things get very skewed. I'm curious to know, if marriage wasn't a legal thing and weddings were a thing of the past, and two close friends of your told you they had decided to commit themselves to one another forever, and you remember that when you and your SO did that, that the money you got from so-and-so made all the difference, would you feel more like helping them out? Partially because you're not obligated to?
Me and my SO didn't do that, because I've made it abundantly clear that I won't; I have no interest in the money that I could accrue from it; I went to college for ten years so that I wouldn't have to. If any of my close friends or family needed money, I would give them some regardless of marital status.
A lot of people don't like asking for help. And a lot of people like giving help without being asked.
The government provides a tax break to incentivize marriage because married people (historically always, nowadays not as true) have more kids, larger tax base = more revenue. The government incentivizes behavior all the time, are you saying it shouldn't be allowed to?
Just because marriage was historically the transfer of ownership doesn't mean it's true today. That definition simply doesn't hold in the modern world. I don't see what's wrong with marriage. I want to get married. I don't see it so much as enslaving my SO but rather a promise to commit to each other, even through shitty times. And hey, what's wrong with a celebrating that? Sure, marriage isn't necessary. Two people can be together without being married. But it isn't slavery. Not today. I don't think your arguments against marriage really hold, and I don't think we need to demonize it.
I would never want to be in the "personal preference for not marriage" FYI. I am glad I'm married and wouldn't change that. I just think its not the only way to share a life with someone. I don't think it's as simple as "yay" or "nay". To each their own IMO.
I'm supportive of marriage if that's what the couple wants. It's entirely personal and people can do whatever they want. I'll never understand the hatred for it though, especially the ones in this thread who are voicing reasons against it from centuries ago like it's relevant. I get it, they don't like marriage, but some of the reasons in here make me laugh a bit. I mean, the comment comparing marriage to slavery seems to be the most popular opinion here at the moment. I'm non-religious and getting married this fall. It's going to be a short non-religious ceremony that my friend is giving since he got ordained online, less than 100 people, some good food, some drinks, and a chance to see a lot of people I haven't seen in a long time. I'm looking forward to it. We're not going broke over it, I'm not enslaving my girlfriend or taking ownership from her father, I'm not expecting people to shower me with gifts and money, and it's honestly more for my family than it is for me. It's a party because we're getting married. That's about it. Couples are free to make their own decisions and do what they want with their relationship. My fiancee and I wanted to get married, and she want's a nice little wedding, so she's getting it. If it was up to me I'd go to a courthouse and save a little money, but it's not all about me, it's about us. Put me in the "for marriage" column, but only in the sense that I'm not against it. I don't think people should get married if they don't want to, but I don't think those that do should have it compared to slavery or written off as nothing but "princess fantasies". Just sounds young and naive and makes me feel like I'm on Reddit with a bunch of misanthropic teenagers again.
Great post, thank you AD for contributing. I totally agree with you about this The marriage thing gets complicated because in most of the US, gay couples are not allowed to get married. As IntimidatingScones said Couples are free to make their own decisions and do what they want with their relationship
I was talking about my own feelings of ambivalence in my blog, and I think other posters are simply talking about their own relationships. I don't think anyone here is interested in controlling other people's decisions. I feel the same way about abortion: If you don't like abortion, don't have one. Don't try to control other people.it seems more productive to me to try to fix the system
Gay marriage would be the first thing I'd fix. Many of the other legal problems were identified by the women at Seneca Falls (property rights, inheritance rights, etc.) and have been fixed over the last 100 years, but many still remain, like the problems mentioned by thenewgreen. Much more important than whether to legally marry or not is the deal with your partner. Are you honest about your money deal, your sex deal, your monogamy or nonmonogamy deal, your childcare deal, your career deal, your housework deal? Those are the things that determine the happiness of your relationship.
Beyond that, how do I feel about marriage? Meh. I don't think you get anything out of it that you couldn't by being in a committed relationship. It's just a "promise", and promises don't require a formal ceremony or official documents. There are plenty of people in monogamous, healthy relationships for long periods of time that never marry.And so why get married?
-Many people will cite tax advantages etc or rights like power of attorney. But for us, the tax thing almost caused us to get divorced. My wife has an enormous amount of student loans. It's such a large number that I try not to even think of it. Because they take a look at our combined income to determine what she's capable of paying each month, we considered a divorce. Then we decided to just file separately. The penalties we receive for doing this are in the tens of thousands, but it's still better than paying the monthly amount. To solve for this, we've literally considered getting a divorce "on paper" until she's out of residency. Why don't we? Because we don't want a "divorce" on the books. There's really no good reason not to do it other than "it would freak our families out".
I should clarify more clearly that the "divorce" that was mentioned would only have been on paper and we would have remarried once the issue resolved. In other words, it had nothing to do with emotions and everything to do with practicality.
Well that's just bizarre. I had heard of getting married for tax purposes but ... I have several good friends who have chosen to go the civil union route. However, what they all have in common is: they are extremely progressive people in other aspects of their lives, and they aren't in particular contact with their families anymore. When/if I start to think about getting married, I will happily enter into a civil union instead -- but the prerequisite is, of course, finding a woman who hasn't been inundated with the cult of marriage. And this is low on my list of desirable characteristics, so marriage is probably in the cards.
I always felt that sharing life with many people of the world would be ideal for me. This doesn't necessarily mean sexual relationships. It just means there isn't any implicit apprehension of meeting new people or spending time away from "the chosen one." Not saying you can't have other friends outside a marriage, but I think the concept itself would just be limiting no matter how hard you tried. I eventually still want to raise awesome kids, but I want to lead my own life not necessarily dedicated to the ideals of family life. Some say you need someone to share your happiness with. But I say, you have whole wide world to share happiness with.
There's a lot of hatred over marriage due to history and mistreatment of it. I'm not religious but I want a ceremony (in a field not a church, and not necessarily with any priest or such). It's like when I asked my atheist dad why he celebrated Christmas. He told me it was a social holiday about unity, love, and family. Later I learned that historically Christmas was a 'pagan' holiday called Saturnalia that honored the Roman father of life. Because historically marriage meant passing of property and treated women as such, and statistically people don't take it too seriously, doesn't mean you have to treat it as such right now and in your relationship. If it has a bitter taste for you because the system is broken, and you just don't want anything to do with it, that's cool. But it seems more productive to me to try to fix the system. It's like if in the 50s you hated segregation so you chose to stop drinking water until there was only one fountain for everyone, but you forgot to show up for the march.
I like to pretend that if I were alive in the 50s and 60s I would've worked for equality. Really, I have no idea. Marriage is different. People don't choose to be black. People choose to get married, and I would never tell someone its the wrong choice for them (unless, of course, I didn't like a particular individual that a friend or family member was planning to marry, but that's totally different). I just personally have no interest in it.
My good sir, the comparison is yours.Slavery has ended, but marriage survives.