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comment by onemilligram
onemilligram  ·  650 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Trump's criminal culpability

"insurrectionists" what a joke. You libs are living in a completely different universe.





am_Unition  ·  650 days ago  ·  link  ·  

In what universe is calling for the hanging of the Vice President based on the lie that there was widespread election fraud not an insurrection attempt?

Feel free to link to literally any credible resource (Mike Pillow doesn't count) that details how the election was stolen.

katakowsj  ·  639 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Agreed.

onemilligram  ·  649 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Ok, What did that have to do with Trump?

am_Unition  ·  649 days ago  ·  link  ·  

When Trump initiated the lie about the election being stolen, or summoned people to D.C. for the 6th via a tweet on Dec. 19th ("will be wild!"), or when he gave a speech around 1 PM on the 6th imploring people to go to the capitol just before thousands of people marched to the capitol, or when he later tweeted on the 6th that "Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what needed to be done" (i.e. refuse to certify the vote) and just after it went live someone at the capitol read it to the crowd through a megaphone immediately preceding the chants of "Hang Mike Pence!".

I could go on and on but I think it'd be a bit overwhelming because I can now surmise that you've probably not been exposed to any of this information before. Which, straight up, is really weird. No one here gets their rocks off to MSNBC, or any mainstream liberal sources for that matter, but I'll do things like watch Tucker and Hannity every now and then, just to know what they're saying instead of walking into a debate perhaps missing one half of the story, erroneous and fatuous (and racist, a word that seems increasingly guaranteed to send every self-proclaimed libertarian into berserker mode for some strange reason) as I think their spew is.

    There was ample circumstantial evidence at the time that there was some seriously shady shit that went down on election night. Not least of which was all the battleground states shutting down at the same time. Many reports of ballot harvesting, I can go on for weeks with all the anomalies.

Well, I've got some good news. We have weeks! All the weeks. I'm quarantined with covid in Switzerland on business, and when I get home, it's back to getting paid millions of dollars an hour to be politely mean to libertarians on this website. Ugh, now I don't know whether I'm on the clock or not.

And wtf does "Battleground states shutting down at the same time" mean? It's not often that someone makes a claim about this stuff that I haven't heard yet.

Mr. Potatohead, as incredibly uninspiring though he may be, wouldn't have the indecency to lie about an election being stolen when he knew it wasn't, simply to grift off the lie and use it to attempt to seize/maintain power illegitimately.

And truly, I have issues believing that libertarians are able to debate any of this in good faith, especially the full-blown anarcho-crypto types who don't believe that any shred of government should exist at all.

I mean look, you're clearly pretty smart. You can formulate sentences better than maybe ~90% of Americans. But consider the possibility that you've been consuming a diet of information so biased that it makes you easily manipulable to evil actors.

katakowsj  ·  639 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Slap my forehead. Well...The highest Executive authority in the land created a lie and instructed an irate mob to fight like hell to change US election result (not ever in a kind “pretty-Please mannerjand now did his damnest to ensure this fired up crew had as many weapons as possible as they arrived at the Capitol. (His disdain for weapon checks that day. )Trump then Knowing full well some of them may kill Mike Pence or Nancy Pelosi if they made their way in. Very likely this would not happened had he conceded the clearly evident loss. He may not be legally culpable, but he's morally culpable . It’s this unethical, Lawful Evil, no man’s land where he seems to have made his career. I’ll place some responsibility on the Libs that didn’t see this ahead of time and put some countermeasures in place.

To me , it’s a more direct line of cause-effect deceit than COVID.,in which he denied it’ s existence, mode of transmission, and severity all while 1,000,000 Americans died on his watch

am_Unition  ·  639 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Oh, it 100% wouldn't have happened without Trump's direction. It was so obviously a top-down, all-hands-on-deck effort extending into every possible avenue of action to keep Trump in power.

And I think he is legally culpable. I predict DoJ indicts him after the midterms, but I'm sure he'll never see the inside of a jail cell. He'll stall the court system until 2025, and campaign on the accusations that it's yet another witch hunt, and unless dems somehow keep the white house, then he either pardons himself or gets a pardon.

At this point, I'm not sure if Trump or DeSantis emerges as the eventual nominee. To anyone hoping for DeSantis, I guess I trust him slightly more with the nuclear codes, but he would be an even more effective fascist than Trump. kleinbl00 thinks that DeSantis is simply too uncharismatic to hold the attention span of the GOP voting base, but that issue might be taken care of with a DeSantis-Palin/Boebert/Greene ticket. Or DeSantis-Trump. Just kidding, Trump would never settle for being VP. No idea who the democrats will try to run, but if it's Biden or Harris, that'll be a GOP victory. Not that winning at the polls will necessarily matter after SCOTUS rules how we're all worried they will on Moore vs. Harper next year. I think it's not a question of if we lose our democracy, moreso how fast.

Fascist fucks and their "libertarian" enablers. Can't think of a more pathetic alliance.

lol anyway, I probably wouldn't say that so bluntly if I thought there was any chance that 1 mg was planning on returning. He must've really hated the information we peddled.

OftenBen  ·  650 days ago  ·  link  ·  

In your own words please characterize the crimes committed by the January 6th attackers.

I wait with bated breath.

In your answer please be sure to include the gallows and cross erected in the front of the capital building and the repeated calls for the execution of the vice president and other members of government

onemilligram  ·  649 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Some crazy boomers went crazy. Not sure what that has to do with Trump. There was ample circumstantial evidence at the time that there was some seriously shady shit that went down on election night. Not least of which was all the battleground states shutting down at the same time. Many reports of ballot harvesting, I can go on for weeks with all the anomalies.

You can dismiss them whiolesale as I am sure you will, but if you say you wouldn't have cried foul if the tables were turned and all that shit happened to Mr. Potatohead you're a liar. Trump had every right to question the election and he had nothing to do with the idiots who rushed the Capital.

kleinbl00  ·  649 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I like to think we can have a reasonable discussion about this. For starters, why did the crazy boomers go crazy? The exit polls for the 2004 election were radically in Kerry's favor. Voting machine integrity underwent a sea change after 2004 because of it. Yet Kerry - and the Democrats - raised barely a peep. The 2000 Gore V. Florida was an extraordinarily narrow supreme court decision that handed the election to Bush out of expediency, not morality, yet Gore - and the Democrats - raised barely a peep. Can you think of any differences in leadership between 2000, 2004 and 2020?

This isn't down to you, of course. The office of the Attorney General is investigating, as is the January 6th Committee. Unless you are literally Roger Stone I do not think you can honestly profess to more information about the situation than either of those bodies.

Humans often "shut down at the same time" when performing similar processes using similar equipment. If the polls all opened at the same time, closed at the same time, and used the same processes to tabulate, they would come to results at about the same time. But again, this is something that has been investigated at great length and absolutely zero evidence of malfeasance has been produced. You say you "can go on for weeks" but you list only two easily-dismissed logical fallacies. Can you document a single piece of concrete evidence of voter fraud of a magnitude necessary to sway a single state election? William Barr couldn't.

I've been here three times, man. Only once did people haul guns to the capital. Yes - some crazy boomers went crazy. But they were driven crazy. And no presidential candidate that I know of has ever done that except Trump.

I welcome this discussion. But it needs to be a discussion, not an invective-hurling contest. What can you say that would be convincing to a person who doesn't already agree with you? You're singing the song of your people but if you want to sit down and have a beer in a foreign land, you need to be able to listen, too.

I apologize for my compatriots (who are going to resent the shit out of me apologizing for them). They're signalling fealty as well. Reasonable people can disagree, but we gotta start by being reasonable.

am_Unition  ·  649 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Nah man, you'll get no resentment from me. I appreciate what you're doing, and I'm trying to be pretty well-behaved, here, but my sarcasm is inescapable, in all scenarios. Like when I was pretty tipsy and mk hopped on the Jit.si for the 10-year anniversary and someone gave him a grand introduction and I said "...who?".

I definitely aim to have a major difference in the way I treat folks like 1mg vs. the people who indisputably know better yet treat lying to their constituents as opportunistic sport.

LOL sorry to shoehorn this in, I read the first two paragraphs of a WSJ op-ed today (I don't give them money anymore) about how the author won't be voting for Trump a third time. Paraphrasing: "Reason #2: Trump's J6 behavior gave democrats a cudgel to hammer him with". Not the actual behavior itself, just the fact that it makes Trump weaker, politically. Faschy af.

I'm still racking my brains to understand what the secret appeal of fascism is to the libertarian crowd. Part of it's the strongman thing ("rugged individualism"), I think. All three of my Uber drivers in Seattle were differing versions of nonwhite pro-Trump immigrants. It's a global thing (and apparently Latinos in the Rio Grande valley). But I also think MAGA has been successfully packaged as anti-regulation, but that's simply not true. The fact that many libertarians are in no way bothered by the Roe repeal says a lot. Sorry, I think most libertarians are simply conservatives who don't want the stigma they've rightly sensed exists towards the conservative movement.

Conversely, I will tell you I'm a socialist, even though I know there's a stigma. I think the stigma is almost completely misplaced, and (seems to be a theme) based on lies and misunderstandings. So if anyone, including 1mg, you, a hypothetical someone named Cruz-Shapiro, or my dad, who is currently veryyyyyy indignant that I am planning to leave America, wants to tear me a new one, that's fine. Personal attacks don't bother me almost at all anymore in the face of ongoing institutional sabotage. I dunno. Bigger fish to fry.

edit: not at all saying you're attacking me, to be clear, just that I'm sorry, babybl00, I'll always love you. No /s.

kleinbl00  ·  648 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    LOL sorry to shoehorn this in, I read the first two paragraphs of a WSJ op-ed today (I don't give them money anymore)

Rhetorical question: are there any editorial boards that aren't shit, that haven't been shit since William Randolph Hearst was giving his mistress' clitoris pet names or before? I would argue that the WSJ editorial board at least has moral clarity: they are evil and make no bones about it. The NYT editorial board, on the other hand, is evil but pretends to be good. They are concern-trolling us into totalitarianism.

    Paraphrasing: "Reason #2: Trump's J6 behavior gave democrats a cudgel to hammer him with". Not the actual behavior itself, just the fact that it makes Trump weaker, politically. Faschy af.

You have to convince Democrats to vote Democratic. Their default is dudgeon and outrage with the party on their voter registration, with the organization that fundraises off of them, that when they vote, they vote for without fail. On the other hand, you have to convince Republicans not to vote Republican - they'll toe the party line and absolve their guy of any crime and if they have any misgivings they'll secretly not vote.

This has had the effect of peeling support away from the Democrats as they've drifted to center, and the effect of peeling the Republicans away from the center as they've become more and more criminal. The reason you're confused is that in your head, "support the candidate" is subordinate to "candidate has earned support." In the Republican mind, "support the candidate" is a fundamental underpinning of the Republican identity. "I'm not voting for the candidate" in Republican-speak is equivalent to "I support fascism" in Democrat-speak.

This is why the Jan 6 Committee stuff is so important: They're trying to change the definition of Republican. Nobody has ever accused anyone else of being a "democrat in name only" - Republicans fight all the time about who has the conch, who holds the scepter, who speaks for the tribe. This is why the Republicans became a fascism buffet the minute Trump had the nomination, and why Ted Cruz sat there phone-banking like a lapdog for a man who said his dad shot Kennedy and called his wife ugly.

Democrats value the ability to put forth logical, empathetic policies. Republicans value winners.

    I'm still racking my brains to understand what the secret appeal of fascism is to the libertarian crowd

LOL the two most important beliefs of libertarianism are (1) "no one can tell me what to do" (2) "I don't have to care about anyone else."

If you're a white male, the fundamental outcome of Republican fascism is to make things a fuckton worse for non-white non-males.

    All three of my Uber drivers in Seattle were differing versions of nonwhite pro-Trump immigrants. It's a global thing (and apparently Latinos in the Rio Grande valley).

nothing wierd about that

    But I also think MAGA has been successfully packaged as anti-regulation, but that's simply not true.

in the liberal mindset, justifications are the logical underpinnings of the belief. In the conservative mindset, justifications are the backstop that allows you to stop thinking about it. "I like money, Republicans like money, therefore anything a Republican says about money is true." Prior to William F. Buckley the conservative mindset supported a welfare state because it forced the government to deal with the Poors, thereby permitting captains of industry to get their industry on.

    The fact that many libertarians are in no way bothered by the Roe repeal says a lot.

(1) "no one can tell me what to do" (I demonstrably lack a uterus) (2) "I don't have to care about anyone else" (the uterine class is not my problem)

    Sorry, I think most libertarians are simply conservatives who don't want the stigma they've rightly sensed exists towards the conservative movement.

NIH estimates that 6.2% of the population could be clinically diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. The PRRI polling above indicates that 7% of the population is libertarian. Is that a false correlation? mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmayyyyyyybe?

does it feel truthy tho

am_Unition  ·  645 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The "lesser of two evil" establishment dems seem plenty narcissistic, to be fair. Not really the base, the peeps at the top.

Wonder where the new guy went? Hmm

kleinbl00  ·  645 days ago  ·  link  ·  

They're a bunch of feckless mutherfuckers.

mk  ·  640 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Every court rejected the claims based on lack of evidence, including judges appointed by Trump himself. Trumps's own AG Barr said his claims were bullshit as did Rosen who replaced him. Trump then tried to get Pence to reject the electors, and freaked when he wouldn't block the democratic transfer of power. Trump lost the election, and tried to stay President.

You can cruise conservative sites to justify your weak-minded membership to the cult of personality of an undemocratic orange ass clown grifter, but in the world of things as they are, that shit you eat stinks to high heaven.

Trump told them to march to the Capitol.

Fuck off and welcome back if you manage to break the spell.

OftenBen  ·  649 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Found the traitor.

Are your parents brother and sister or father and daughter?

am_Unition  ·  649 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Careful bro, these levels of vitriol could finally grow the hubski userbase.

E N G A G E M E N T

R E T E N T I O N

P R O F I T

M A R K

B U T N O T T H E B A D M A R K, I M E A N

user-inactivated  ·  648 days ago  ·  link  ·  

mk, where do I buy my hubski coins to badge this.

am_Unition  ·  648 days ago  ·  link  ·  

N O O O O O O O

mk  ·  640 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
katakowsj  ·  640 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Huh? Please explain how U.S Citizens using force and violence to change our electoral process does not constitute them acting as insurrectionists?