Share good ideas and conversation.   Login, Join Us, or Take a Tour!
comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  1018 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: More Than 40% of Student Borrowers Aren’t Making Payments

veen  ·  1018 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I remember you posting that before, but I didn't remember how truly awful that slippery slope of debt is. When do you expect the dam to break?

For comparison, the system here is now that I have 35 years to pay it off, with minimum payments at the level where after 35 years it should be paid off. Interest is <1% and the minimum payments are income-dependant.

kleinbl00  ·  1018 days ago  ·  link  ·  

One of the arguments made a lot during the recession was that the 1% wants a capitalist system when they're making money and a socialist system when they're losing it.

The more things break, the more intervention we throw at it. So the question becomes, how does it break next time?

Let's suppose the economy takes a shit within the next 18 months. Gonna go out on a limb and predict Clinton as president, but the Sanders campaign still has a giant mailing list and a political machine par excellence. People forget: started over the Lewinsky hearings; it was just a petition of people who wanted congress to "move on" from the fucking blue dress but since they signed their email address, a juggernaut was born.

So there's President Clinton, cozy with the bankers, and there's a recession, and people are out of work, and the people hit hardest are going to be the millennials because that's the way it's been for the past ten years and a plurality of them felt the Bern.

Imagine if Occupy Wall Street actually wanted something, instead of simply hanging around in drum circles.

I think a few angry gatherings of out-of-work millennials burned by the smoldering carcass of Dot.Bomb II demanding student loan reform are likely to get shit passed right quick. That's a point a few people have made, but nobody really takes seriously - the Sanders campaign has built a hell of a political machine and it's not going to suddenly dismantle itself after the convention. You don't put something like that together so you can leave it parked in the garage.

snoodog  ·  1018 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Why not? Obama put a pretty huge movement tougher only to abandon it after the campaign. So there is precedent. Also if/when sanders concedes and is swallowed up by the Clinton campaign that will do a lot of damage to the movement.

kleinbl00  ·  1018 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't see Sanders being swallowed up by the Clinton campaign. He ran, he said, because he didn't want to see Clinton unopposed. He switched his allegiance from "independent" to "democrat" just so he could. He's always been an oppositional figure, a gadfly in the machine, and just because he (probably) won't win this time doesn't mean he's going to roll over and play dead.

I mean, yeah. He's not going to say nice things about Clinton. Already isn't. But he's going to say less nice things about Cruz/Trump/DarkHorseduJour.

snoodog  ·  1018 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Well right now he doesn't have to say nice things about her but if he doesn't win hes going to be expected to tow the party line. Hes likely going to have to come out supporting Clinton in positions that are going to be against the interests of his base. I don't think hes going to be allowed to come out and say that yeah Clinton is shit, I agree, she is bought and paid for by big business and corrupt as hell but the other guy is a crazy loony so vote Clinton. I could be wrong but I don't think that's how politics works.

Sanders basically has to either withdraw his presence from 2016 presidential election and re-purpose his movement into local elections or go independent to maintain the movement. Otherwise he will be forced to actively endorse and promote existing Clinton positions which suck and will loose him credibility. VP sanders would also kill the movement because then he would just be a puppet in the Clinton campaign.

Basically I think either the movement is re-purposed to support Clinton and it dies (because Clinton excites absolutely nobody) or it needs to be split off from the democratic party and I'm not sure how that would happen.

What kind of scenario do you envision that allows the movement to continue on its own?

kleinbl00  ·  1018 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Sanders basically has to either withdraw his presence from 2016 presidential election and re-purpose his movement into local elections or go independent to maintain the movement.

That's just it, though, dude -

    In November 2015, Sanders announced that he would be a Democrat from then on, and will run in any future elections as a Democrat. On February 4, 2016, Sanders said, "Of course I am a Democrat and running for the Democratic nomination."

Sanders' party affiliation is younger than my driver's license. "Going independent" is hardly a tribulation for him. If he decided to hook up with the Green Party they'd be viable for the first time since 2000. If he decides to retain his senate seat he gets to be Pelosi's counterbalance. The only way Sanders goes away is if he decides he wants to go away and makes the active decision to fuck off with all of it.

And if you don't think Barack Obama doesn't email everybody that donated to his campaign every day you clearly didn't donate.

snoodog  ·  1018 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'd bet you a quarter that hes not going to branch out as independent if he looses. Friendly wager :) (Its going to cost more to mail the quarter but it would still be fun) .

I would love to see a 3 man 1 woman race this year. Sure would make for an interesting election

kleinbl00  ·  1018 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Two things:

1) I believe we're speaking at cross-purposes. If Sanders loses the nomination, I don't expect him to run as an independent. I expect him to basically become a PAC, a la Avaaz or MoveOn. It is my opinion (and the opinion of a lot of clever people) that Sanders ran primarily to shape the narrative; winning the nomination would be icing on the cake but not the whole goal of his campaign.

2) I coulda sworn you were up in Seattle somewhere, so the wager should have been a beer. But again, I don't think we're on opposite sides on this.

snoodog  ·  1017 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Ha no need to wager I'll buy you a beer just for showing up to receive it :) North Seattle you are correct

kleinbl00  ·  1017 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Shit we're gonna have to figure out that meetup thing again.

lil  ·  1017 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Sometime between August 7 and 12. I will be there. Already registered. No bailing out.

kleinbl00  ·  1017 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I, on the other hand, probably will not so you may have to handle that one on your own...

lil  ·  1017 days ago  ·  link  ·  


Handling it will be saying this: Time, tba; location: Sheraton Seattle Hotel at 1400 6th Avenue downtown. I'll cover myself in hubski stickers.

snoodog  ·  1017 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Did the other one ever happen? It was coming together kind of oddly and haphazardly without a lot of attention to the issues with local traffic and really a fixed location.

kleinbl00  ·  1017 days ago  ·  link  ·  

blame lil.

lil  ·  1017 days ago  ·  link  ·  

When I first saw this thread, I thought I was being blamed for student loans.

Whew. Yes, definitely blame me and Kevin for bailing out on me.