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comment by someguyfromcanada
someguyfromcanada  ·  3227 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: From Pickup Artist to Pariah

The Neil Strauss book "The Game" is pretty well known inspiration for virginal adult men who have no game ie. confidence or personality. /r/theredpill is very popular although I would not recommend looking into it. And there are plenty of gaming forum boards etc that foster that type of discussion. I also see telephone post ads all over the place.

In Toronto PUAs have been an issue in the downtown core. The biggest downtown mall has had a major problem with PUAs going in en masse to practice their artistry. Oddly enough, if they only tried a few blocks west in the dance clubs of the Entertainment District they would probably have more success but perhaps lack the funds or confidence to do so.

A guy named James Sears/Dimitrious Sarafopoulos aka Dimitri the Lover, a former physician who had his licence revoked for sexual assault, runs lots of social media and will even teach you to be as awesome as him for a fee.

His latest tweet sums up how he misunderstands relationships: "Open relationships are the best BUT BE DISCREET! Every one I had was sexually, emotionally & spiritually fulfilling TILL MY GF's CAUGHT ME." He apparently thinks that an open relationship/polyamory is not something that is a mutual decision.





user-inactivated  ·  3227 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm aware of /r/theredpill. I know there are places where these people gather. That's not what confuses me. What confuses me is how people get drawn to them. What confuses me is that I have never heard anyone say anything positive about that stuff outside of their communities. I am not quite the target audience, granted, because I've never had a problem talking with women, but I'm in the same neighborhood. I'm a nerdy guy who spends a lot of time on the Internet. I am probably more like your average PUA than not. It seems like I should come across whatever draws people in at some point. I never do. I have seen more people advocating for monarchism than I have seen mens' rights activists in the wild. I know people who seriously believe FEMA runs concentration camps, the moon landing was faked and 9/11 was an inside job and will go on at great, tedious length about their evidence at the drop of a hat, but I don't know anyone who buys those just-so stories about evolutionary biology and gender roles. I have a half-dozen Julius Evola books passing acquaintances have given to me insisting they'd blow my mind, but no one has ever so much as recommended The Game to me. I have been pitched all sorts of batshit, but I have never heard anything good about this stuff without going out of my way to see where they're coming from. That's what confuses me.

kleinbl00  ·  3226 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I want to hear this comment recited by William S. Burroughs with a breakbeat jazz quartet a la MC 900 Ft Jesus behind it. It is truly a towering piece of existentialist, ironic prose.

veen  ·  3226 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think I can posit a reason, as I knew someone who read The Game and followed through on it. He was one part douchecanoe, one part dumb and two parts lonely. After reading it he became the jerk that one can reasonably expect. Which, in his case, meant that he appeared to be more assertive and confident while also acting like more of a dick.

So he had some success with it. My guess is that the being-a-jerk part did nothing while the confidence-can-be-faked part did all the heavy lifting. He went on to preach about it to other guys - "hey, look at all the girls I'm talking to now". Granted, this was a few years ago, before /r/theredpill was even a thing. I still think word of mouth from close friends is how ideas like this spread. If I see a guy friend of mine suddenly doing well dating and he says he holds the key to success, I might be inclined to believe him.

someguyfromcanada  ·  3227 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Never heard of Evola. From what little I have seen just now (which is little), he would seem to appeal to male college PUAs and MRAs. But is the "thinking man's" Neil Strauss and being a MRA/PUA is not the primary focus of his writing.

I do not know anyone that has any interest in PUA theory, legos, Star Wars, white supremacy theory, the Illuminati, pokemon, chess, cryptic crosswords, furries, heroin, reptiles, etc. There are many of people out there that do but there are so many people that we do not always meet them and even if we do we self-select our friends/acquaintances.

We all like different things for different reasons and are drawn to and choose to hang out with those with similar interests. It seems that the primary characteristic that you do not share with PUAs is the desire to downplay the intellectual and emotional intelligence of women and a desire to exploit and manipulate them.

user-inactivated  ·  3227 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I so didn't mean to send you down that rabbit hole. Evola was the philosopher who was opposed to fascism because it wasn't far right enough. He's worth knowing about in a "wow, that guy existed" sort of way, but not beyond that.

Which was my point, that I probably obscured by using personal examples. We don't just get exposed to things because we hang out with people like us and people like us like those things. . I made an example of similarly vile books without thinking to describe them as such, and you went and checked him out.

You don't have any interest in a long list of things, but I bet you've had more than a little exposure to most of them. You are aware of white supremacist theorists, none of whom you're likely to encounter without wandering pretty deep into Wikipedia, or having a brighter-than-your-average white supremacist rant at you for a while. Either one will show you how people who get into white supremacy through theory do so; Evola being handed out at underground-or-whatever-we're-calling-it-now music events, the Turner Diaries being handed out at gun shows, probably others being handed out to other communities. There are groups doing outreach; go where the angry white people are, hand out books some of them will get curious about. Most don't get read, some number know the book and want nothing to do with it, and some smart-but-not-too-smart angry white people read the book, have the wrong sort of epiphany and share it with their friends. And so you get people who should be too smart to be white supremacists but are, and everyone else learns to recognize and ignore them. A couple of people reading this in chatter tomorrow will probably remember mayonesa from reddit.

That's comprehensible. I don't wonder where the smart, bookish, vocal racists come from. I wonder where these guys come from, because the manosphere looks to be mostly talking to itself, and outsiders talking about it are not sympathetic.