That's the age I am so that's all I can comment on presently. I think the rapid growing stage begins at 18 for pretty much everyone and slows down as you become more stable in life. For some of my friends, they're still rapidly maturing, figuring out what is meaningful to them, what they want to achieve, at 28. Some of my friends in college knew much more about what they wanted and what was valuable to them at 18. I presently have a pretty decent grasp on what I'm looking for in life and, although I expect it to change as I get older, I don't think I'm going to see the same experimentation and ballsy life choices I made at 18 and 19 and 20. I have noticed that it takes much more time and effort to change and grow now that I'm working 50 hours a week.
I think you'll discover that opportunity matters a lot more than age. Not to get all Maszlow's Heirarchy on it, but that "growing up" starts the minute you have the bandwidth for introspection and the freedom to test assumptions. If it stops at 23 it's because one or the other has gone away.
Absolutely. You always put things so succinctly. That freedom is what comes into play when you get out of your parent's house and into "the real world". Partially, you aren't being told what to do. But you also have the ability to do things without your parents judging you, punishing you, or event finding out. Your decisions are now 100% your own and you have to deal with the consequences of your actions at that point. In high school, going out late and getting drunk meant the possibility that your parents would find out and punish you. When you are older, going out late and getting drunk means the possibility of making decisions you will regret (hangovers, saying/doing stupid things, etc). You are testing assumptions every single day. As you get older, you spend less time experimenting with the decisions you make. I know what will happen if I go out late and get drunk on a weeknight: I will be hungover at work and miserable. For that reason, I don't have to test it anymore. Of course, you will test assumptions as you encounter new experiences or predicaments but you have a lot more related knowledge to help you out. The tests occur more rarely as you mature and grow.the bandwidth for introspection and the freedom to test assumptions.
Do me a solid - re-evaluate this statement at your next birthday, and the birthday after that, and the birthday after that. I think you'll find your perspective shifting. Seen through the long lens of history, "100% your own" and "deal with the consequences of your actions" in reference to "college" seems naive. Not to say that there's any more responsibility just for getting older - but the "responsibility" of a dorm-dweller is different from the "responsibility" of a person with a mortgage, two car payments and a time-share. Likewise, the experimentation doesn't go down as you get older, but the nature of it changes. I'm not sure the "get drunk on a Wednesday" example is appropriate as it can be solved by inspection; I can also say that the consequences are no more an inhibitor than they were when I was 17. I think it's safe to say that "experimentation" and "exploration" continue for anyone that isn't completely inhibited, while understanding that the things experimented with change. Seen from the perspective of "just out of college" the experiments might not seem as daring... but the same could be said of "just out of college" experiments as seen from the perspective of "just skipped my 20-year reunion." There are people who never explore themselves. there are people who are saddled with responsibility at the age of 6. Society does arrange similar mileposts at certain ages but I maintain those mileposts are related to experience and opportunity, not age.
I'm not sure of insom's situation, but would it be unreasonable to assert that the growing student loan bubble could prevent people from having either of those things straight out of college? When you're saddled with tens of thousands of dollars of debt immediately after education it seems difficult to acquire the time and willpower to pursue personal progression and growing up when you're spending your time working off your debt and moving up the career ladder.
I think it's reasonable to assert that punitive debt is designed to prevent people from having it ever. A good employee is not a dreamer. A good consumer is not mercurial. The economy works best when people consume exactly what they produce and pay The Man for the privilege. That, right there, is the cornerstone of countercultural thinking dating back to Zoroaster.
You've given me some things to think about. Why can't a good employee be a dreamer? Google is keeping what I would imagine is a group filled with dreamers. A friend of mine works in advanced research in Bose where they try to come up with innovative products and market testing (bullshit terms, but I can't get too into it), and I'm currently in an R&D/Process position where testing things out and dreaming up new processes is why these jobs exist. I'm definitely taking this too literally, because I can't imagine how the vast majority of people are able to do that with how specialized jobs have become. Is a person that works in a retail store and spends their money and basic living expenses and lets say a new car payment or some other item not following this principle?The economy works best when people consume exactly what they produce and pay The Man for the privilege.
On tight leashes. The trade is this: you spend 50-60-70 hours a week doing what we tell you, and we'll give you 5 or 10 every week to work on things we're not telling you to do on the understanding that anything you come up with we own entirely and will derive all direct benefit from. What does it mean "to dream?" Is your dream to come up with revolutionary software that will change the world? Or is your dream to help GOOGLE come up with revolutionary software that will change the world? 'cuz I guarantee you - Google is not invested in your dream. Google is invested in their dream and it's worth some bread and circuses to trick you into believing that their dream is yours. My name is on half the civic works in Seattle. Thousands of hours of my life went into them. Blood, sweat, tears. I had a fucking gun pulled on me for a gig, I shit you not. And the only way you would ever know it is if you headed down to City Hall, dug through the blueprints, flipped to my pages, looked up my initials, and inquired with the company that did that work ten years ago who those initials stood for. Same as everyone else on the project. No architect, no civil engineer, no designer gets credit for that shit. NBBJ does. Callison does. Miller Hull does. Me? I was a tiny cog in a vast machine, grinding my bearings down to nothing in service of a juggernaut that didn't give the first shit about me. And so are you. Now? Now it's much the same. My name flashes by at light speed if you stick around to watch the credits. But I get to have drambuie in my coffee in the morning, I work all day on my own gear for my own clients, and if I come up with something revolutionary, it's mine. True story - Steve Wozniak came up with much of the architecture for the Apple 1 while working at HP. under his contract with HP, HP owned everything he came up with. The only reason Apple exists is because HP decided nothing he was working on was of any value to HP. Google isn't that stupid. Why does specialization matter? How much do you have in savings? How much do your friends have in savings? How much do your parents have in savings? I'm not talking retirement funds; retirement funds are the money you've set aside for when you've finally decided you're sick of letting someone else burn your life for money (and you don't have enough anyway). I'm talking actual discretionary cash set aside for expenses that you don't foresee. What do you do with your tax return? Do you pay down your mortgage? BAM. Wage slavery. do you add it to your retirement fund? BAM. Wage slavery. Do you buy yourself a shiny trinket? BAM. Wage slavery. The purpose of the economy, from a capitalist perspective, is to make sure that every mutherfucking red cent you earn goes back into the economy as shit you buy. Saving is bad for capitalism. When the economy is in dire straits, what do they do? They lower interest rates. Why do they do this? So that saving is disincentivized. Why disincentivize saving? Because your job is to consume, bitch, get on it. Yeah, it's the rantings of a manic street preacher. But, like all rantings of manic street preachers everywhere, there's a basis in truth.Why can't a good employee be a dreamer? Google is keeping what I would imagine is a group filled with dreamers.
I'm definitely taking this too literally, because I can't imagine how the vast majority of people are able to do that with how specialized jobs have become.
Based on this it looks there a couple of options for employment: 1. Given multiple opportunities, decide which companies dream you would most like to invest in and help make a reality. 2. Given less opportunities, accept a position which you might not agree with or have interest in bolstering. 3. Say screw it and start your own business or pursue some business venue that you can control. For the most part. I have an LLC that entirely depends upon people wanting to release music and people caring enough about the music to spend money on it and book the bands and/or see them live. The interesting part is when bands and agents reach out to us to inquire about releasing music on our label or asking about the availability/interest of bands for shows. Then things get fun. Some of things (mortgage, retirement fund) aren't things that I'm even pursuing yet since I'm still in college, but as for savings I'm trying to save something on the order of 40% of each paycheck of this internship which some weeks I save more and some less but hey, I'm making an effort! I try not to spend my money on things that aren't housing/utilities/transportation/food/concerts. In that aspect most of the concerts funds are under-the-table, ticketmaster and fees free directly into the hands of the bands themselves.What does it mean "to dream?" Is your dream to come up with revolutionary software that will change the world? Or is your dream to help GOOGLE come up with revolutionary software that will change the world? 'cuz I guarantee you - Google is not invested in your dream. Google is invested in their dream and it's worth some bread and circuses to trick you into believing that their dream is yours.
...And so are you.
Interesting perspective, a good reason to work for yourself I think. While an individual might break loose from this system quite easily, do you see any way for a society to let go of the consumerist economic system? As in, isn't this the best we can do?
It's not that interesting. It's "Rich Dad Poor Dad." It's "20 Hour Work Week." It's Carleton Sheets. It's Tony whatsisname. It's every get-rich-quick call-to-action ever voiced. Society is not built to accommodate your dreams. Society is built to keep most people at a subsistence level so that a select few can take advantage of them. Most people are too busy doing their thing to care - it's not like a white picket fence, two happy kids and a Camaro in the driveway is a loathsome dream. However it's important to note that society is fundamentally arranged around satisfaction not fulfillment.
My question then becomes, manic street preacher, is there a way that we can change society to an arrangement that will lead to fulfillment for the majority or is it the tragedy of the commons?However it's important to note that society is fundamentally arranged around satisfaction not fulfillment.
"Tragedy of the commons" is when everyone exploits a common resource in a rational way that depletes the common resource irrationally. The classic example is over-grazing of shared pasture. Really, "take care o'you" is the response. Make sure that what you're doing makes you happy, makes you fulfilled, and don't worry so much about "society." Dark Ages Europe had a "society" after all and it really only benefitted the landed gentry.
