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comment by ButterflyEffect
ButterflyEffect  ·  84 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: September 19, 2018

Struggleski. Had a large headache after two fairly bumpy flights yesterday, and a relationship argument because I A. Forgot to buy a concert ticket while I was on the East Coast, didn't think it would sell out, then it sold out. and B. Can't do dinner tonight because I was invited yesterday and already had plans for tonight and C. General issues with my availability.

Went to a wedding. It was nice! One woman I've known since pre-school, marrying a man I've known since 6th grade. They were so excited I flew across the country for this, and I was glad I did. But, at the same time, I didn't have the feeling that a wedding is something I might ever want. Kids, I definitely don't think I want. Even an officiated wedding, though, doesn't give me any sort of emotion. Maybe it's a shortcoming, maybe it can be attributed to being 26, but those are two things I struggle to reconcile with being in a long-term relationship.




kleinbl00  ·  84 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The important thing is not how you regard marriage, it's how society regards marriage. It's definitely a transformation - a subtle one, but a transformation nonetheless. Fundamentally, when you're married every acquaintance you make, casual or serious, presumes that your destiny is tied to another person. I suspect your current (healthy) attitude towards marriage is at least partially shaped by your current (healthy) attitude towards destiny: you don't have firm plans and goals so the idea of coordinating your plans and goals with another human being complicates things rather than simplifying them.

Kids are the same way, in their own way. They're a collaborative project to expand and transform the partnership, fundamentally. Unfortunately society doesn't tell you this. "Do you want to have kids?" is a question completely divorced from "Are you interested in joining your life to someone else in a collaborative effort intended to better both your lives through decades of intimate, expensive, messy, inspirational and joyful struggle?" because if we phrased the question that way, everyone under about 35 these days would say "fuck to the no."

ButterflyEffect  ·  84 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    ...presumes that your destiny is tied to another person. I suspect your current (healthy) attitude towards marriage is at least partially shaped by your current (healthy) attitude towards destiny: you don't have firm plans and goals so the idea of coordinating your plans and goals with another human being complicates things rather than simplifying them.

That's definitely part of it. I also grew up in a household which was persistently frayed and oft on the edge of divorce, grew up with friends who had parents going through divorce, and am currently friends with at least one person going through a divorce. The close proximity to the separation of tied destinies, I think, has also contributed to a mindset that doesn't view it as a leaning-towards-permanent, binding of two people into one, but as a more structured but just as apt to fall apart relationship.

I wonder when that graph will level out.

kleinbl00  ·  84 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I also grew up in a household which was persistently frayed and oft on the edge of divorce, grew up with friends who had parents going through divorce, and am currently friends with at least one person going through a divorce.

Can relate. There comes a time where you begin to trust your internal compass more than your external influences. Everyone loves to say that half of all marriages end in divorce without noticing that means half of all marriages are truly til death do us part. 26 is also trading season - that's where the people who shouldn't have gotten married early figure out their mistakes and the people who knew better start to wonder what they were missing.

OftenBen  ·  84 days ago  ·  link  ·  

When I look at social institutions like marriage, weddings, etc. all I see is crumbling roman ruins.

It seems as though we have to create our own meaningful events and ceremonies, cut and paste traditions like arts and crafts. Engagements are not typically very long in our culture- I intend for mine to last the better part of a decade, if not more.

Create your own meaning bruh. That's the beauty of it, we get to decide.

goobster  ·  84 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yup. That was what I thought at that age, too.

Then I impulsively proposed to my girlfriend, and we were married for seven years.

Then I almost got married again.

Then I did get married again.

Once you pull your head out of the "I'm sticking it to the MAN, man!" mindset, you realize it has nothing to do with the government, and everything to do with the person you love.

ButterflyEffect  ·  84 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Huh, I don't view it that way as an institutional sticking it to the man. To me, it's just another day. I saw the two get married, and kept thinking that they were the same people yesterday as they'll be tomorrow. But then, that's how I feel about birthdays and most other things, too.

kleinbl00  ·  84 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    It seems as though we have to create our own meaningful events and ceremonies, cut and paste traditions like arts and crafts.

The trick is in getting everyone else to agree to the meaning of your own events and ceremonies. This is the fundamental value of traditions: they are cultural shorthand that allows strangers and acquaintances to place you in the social order without endless quizzing and interrogation. That's why the 'thumpers lose their fucking minds over gay marriage - "adam and eve not adam and steve" is the panicked howl of custom being slain by progress.

OftenBen  ·  84 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    The trick is in getting everyone else to agree to the meaning of your own events and ceremonies.

Simple. Invite them. They show or don't.

kleinbl00  ·  84 days ago  ·  link  ·  

"Everyone else" includes tax officials, loan officers, guys in line at the movie theater, and anyone attempting to sell you a couch. Your friends and family know what the fuck is between you and your RPS. The guy at Best Buy trying to sell you a laptop has no fucking clue unless she's wearing a ring.

OftenBen  ·  84 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    The guy at Best Buy trying to sell you a laptop has no fucking clue unless she's wearing a ring.

Fixed, haha. Rose gold is pretty.

I get your point.