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comment by user-inactivated
user-inactivated  ·  1617 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Farewell, America

Bullshit. You see, now I am angry.

    America died on Nov. 8, 2016, not with a bang or a whimper, but at its own hand via electoral suicide. We the people chose a man who has shredded our values, our morals, our compassion, our tolerance, our decency, our sense of common purpose, our very identity — all the things that, however tenuously, made a nation out of a country.

We Americans elected Woodrow Wilson, a racist xenophobic terrible human being. Yet, despite that, we survived. For crying out loud, America elected Jackson, a guy who ran an honest to goodness genocide, and yet here we are. George W Bush ran the place for 8 years and we are still here. Nixon and all his baggage. The entire Whig Party. Coolidge did nothing, not a damn thing, as the entire global economy tanked and nearly ruined us... not to mention fucking up the 1927 flooding recovery. We as a county have had 10, maybe 12 good presidents tops; most have been mediocre men of various party and temperament. And we have had 10 or so that have been appallingly bad. Want to get started on the shit shows we elect in this country? Here you go.

This shit of liberals whining need to fucking stop. NOW. We got 11 months to build or we are fucked. FUCKED. If the Democrats lose a single state house in 2017, the Republicans will have the 75% of state houses needed to pass Constitutional Amendments. SIT THE FUCK DOWN PEOPLE AND REALLY THINK ABOUT THAT ONE

Hillary was a bad candidate that ran a poor campaign. She did not pump up the Senate races, she did not excite the base and she was unable to close the election against a reality TV clown. So, now, we fight or we die.

Stop the fucking moping, make calls. Find the liberals in your state Democratic party if you want to fight back, get involved, get off the damn internet and FIGHT.





thenewgreen  ·  1617 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Once in a while, it's prudent to remember that the United States is an experiment. Like all experiments, it's outcome is uncertain and it's going to produce some anomalies and unforeseen outcomes from time to time. I think that's where we are at right now. We don't look the same as we did in our founding days, that's supposed to be part of the experiment. Can we design a system that is dynamic, that can be augmented to suit the times?

America may not look the same in 8 years. But it hasn't look the same... ever. It's a work in progress.

WanderingEng  ·  1617 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I feel like the same could be said of all of humanity, and I think that's a good thing. We will screw up along the way, whether as individuals, countries or all humanity. Like you said, it's an ongoing experiment.

bioemerl  ·  1616 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    NOW. We got 11 months to build or we are fucked. FUCKED. If the Democrats lose a single state house in 2017, the Republicans will have the 75% of state houses needed to pass Constitutional Amendment

Holy shit that's bad.

b_b  ·  1616 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's bad, but not quite as bad as it sounds. They still need 2/3 of both houses on Congress. There is a mechanism for a constitutional convention, but it has literally been used 0 times, and no one even knows how to do it or what the legal requirements are. Seriously. It's in the Constitution, but since it's never been used it is unclear how it could be used, as normally these matters either operate on tradition, the history of court decisions, or both. Here, there are none, so it is unlikely to occur suddenly. Therefore, as long as greater than 1/3 of both houses stay Democrat (likely, given that Dems get more of the cumulative vote in House races in most elections--that's how gerrymandered we are), we're safe from oppressive bullshit that these theocrats might dream up.

user-inactivated  ·  1612 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    They still need 2/3 of both houses on Congress

AHEH....

    The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof
link

If 3/4 of the state legislators demand a Constitutional Convention, they can do that also without the input of Congress.

b_b  ·  1612 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I feel like you stopped reading my post after one sentence. The issues surrounding the mechanism for 3/4 of states calling a convention are vast and complicated. It is an unknown unknown. It won't happen.

user-inactivated  ·  1612 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I feel like you stopped reading my post after one sentence.

Apologies, not my intent. I am seeing this here and there, that "it will never happen," yet here we are talking about President Donald Trump. There is an incredible amount of nutty in the State Legislatures, in plces like Arkansas and Kansas to give examples. It is in my head that there are people out there now planning for that 3/4, and how to get it. The thing is that the people plotting this maneuver? They concern me a bit.

    It is an unknown unknown.

100% with you there. And honestly, I would like to keep it that way for now.

b_b  ·  1611 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Right. Anything seems possible in Trump's America, but not in the good, uplifting way.

johnnyFive  ·  1617 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Hillary was a bad candidate that ran a poor campaign. She did not pump up the Senate races, she did not excite the base and she was unable to close the election against a reality TV clown. So, now, we fight or we die.

I agree with everything else you said, but want to add one thing. We also have to stop pretending that Clinton lost the election as opposed to all those voters who literally couldn't be bothered to show up. They shouldn't be off the hook, either.

snoodog  ·  1617 days ago  ·  link  ·  

She lost man. People not showing up to vote for you is loosing.

johnnyFive  ·  1617 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Sorta. But again, I have a big problem with us saying it was Clinton's fault. Even if she sucked, she sucked less than Trump. Those who didn't show in essence voted for Trump.

That she wasn't "inspiring" enough is not an excuse in my book.

bioemerl  ·  1616 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You inspire people to vote for you, you don't rely on them to come out and vote on their own.

snoodog  ·  1617 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I guess I see not showing up as a vote. You have 3 options when you vote +1 -1 and 0 and I see not showing up as a vote zero

johnnyFive  ·  1617 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Voting is only meaningful to the extent that it achieves a given outcome. Now, you can argue that there's a form of protest in not voting (I certainly considered it this time around), but voting is one of those situations where inaction is nonetheless contributing to a specific outcome. In this case, Democratic supporters not turning out is one cause (among several) for Trump's victory. Tautological though it may seem, Clinton would have won if more people who supported her (or at least disliked her less) had voted for her. Thus their decision not to vote literally took votes out of Clinton's (theoretical) total, which in turn was one of the reasons that Trump had more.

It also fails pretty badly as a protest. The apathy of the average voter is not a new narrative, and any idea of a protest vote will be swallowed up by the traditional one.

rrrrr  ·  1617 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I suspect many of them didn't show up because they didn't feel they could in good conscience vote for Hillary. Had the Democrats run a more appealing candidate with less baggage, they would have seen a better voter turnout.

johnnyFive  ·  1617 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I understand that, but that decision was tantamount to a vote for Trump.

am_Unition  ·  1617 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Everyone was also repeatedly told Hillary was favored to win in every poll, so the impetus for liberals to make it out on voting day was markedly lower.