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johnnyFive's profile

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It's been interesting to see how poorly we can handle degrees of sucking in public discourse -- it's kind of a zero-sum game. I think the anti-fa groups are getting a level of free passage that they don't necessarily deserve, simply because their opponents are so much worse (including being more harmful in the long run IMO).

I'm worried about the degree to which we're allowing something we wouldn't accept otherwise because of whom it's directed at. And I get it in the case of neo-Nazis and the like, even if I think their threat level is overblown (as shown by the results of their even being this organized). So my problem isn't that the anti-fa groups who went to Charlottesville looking for a fight aren't being put on the same level with the neo-Nazis (since they're not), but that we're apparently not capable of having a real conversation about how white nationalism and racism should be discussed. We can't say anything that isn't 100% "these people are the worst and anything that happens to them is justified" without getting screamed at.

Trump fucked the dog (as he does on every other decision he makes) in his public comments, but being in a place where anything other than violent condemnation is seen as solidarity is dangerous.

Good point. What I'm really interested to see is the extent to which Trump's approval ratings affect the 2018 midterms. Of course, the X factor there is the extent to which the Democrats shoot themselves in the foot.

    Trump may be using the new controversy as a distraction, there's no way to know. I get tired of guessing sometimes, but I'll probably never be able to stop watching. This could very well be the biggest political phenomenon of our lives, right?

God I hope so. I'm not sure I could handle something more extreme. I think I'm already tired of winning.

I'm not sure that's wholly right. I think your description is perhaps overstating their current power. Just look at what the KKK and the related groups were getting up to in the '40s, '50s, and '60s. They were better organized and a lot more violent, even without modern technology. Membership is definitely on the uptick thanks in large part to Trump. But there's not automatically a correlation between membership and violence, or membership and influence.

More to the point, though, this increase doesn't necessarily mean that I'm wrong. One of the things that seriously hurt the Klan back in the '80s was lawsuits over their use of violence. That becomes a lot harder if they're themselves the victims; this also is an easy way to engender sympathy or at least muddy the waters. Their recruitment at this point feeds on ignorance and being ostracized, so I'm not sure how shunning them is really going to help.


That was a good review, in that it confirmed my own impressions O:-).

But seriously, the bit at the end about Beth increasing her own crazy has some interesting implications. I mean, it's always been obvious that the family is well and truly fucked, but this is the first real hint that they might be playing it out a little straighter than we were led to believe.

It's interesting to think about this in light of last night's episode, but it's hard to say yet whether that one was part of an overarching narrative.

    when you truly grok that about AI and AGI, you'll be the same as me; horrified beyond belief.

You sure do like moving the goalposts, don't you?

    There IS NO SOLUTION -- so we have to think differently, and maybe -- maybe -- we can come up with something meaningful.

So you grok this all so well but can't offer a solution? Not really making a good case for why we should listen to you on this issue.

Earlier, you said:

    It's really ANI for the military case, not AGI, but that does not mean it can kill us very effectively. It can and it will.

From reading your argument, you seem to have totally internalized its underlying assumptions, but skip over the part where you support them. Why will it be military AI? How will ISIS or some other such group have access to it? Why will their version be able to defeat one developed in the US? Why would an AGI do what they tell it to (or us for that matter)?

Also, you still haven't answered my earlier comment asking why you think you've said anything many of us haven't already thought about.

As Isherwood said, the whole tone and way of communicating in your post is saying that your reader is dumber than you, doesn't understand it as well as you do, and needs enlightenment. You're assuming that you're smarter than literally every person who reads your post, and that you know more about AI risk than them as well.

Meanwhile, you give an incredibly shallow description of the issue, but give no insight into what the current thinking on the problem actually is, or what any actual solutions might be. A good discussion wouldn't excuse the attitude of your post, but its absence certainly makes it worse.

Pop Will Eat Itself - Ich Bin Ein Auslander

The Quaker City Night Hawks - Some of Adam's Blues. Just found these guys last night, and they're probably my new favorite blues-rock group.

If that's so, you really need to re-think your approach. Condescending to your audience is not effective, particularly when you've shown no reason for us to believe you know more about the subject than we do.

Was this supposed to be persuasive?

Maybe that would work, although to me the best idea is still to do nothing.

    What will we do?

Stop feeding the trolls, for one. The greatest response to the rally in Charlottesville would've been nothing. I would've loved to see no one show, no one stop, everyone just go about their day.

These guys are angsty 14-year-olds that never grew up. They want to shock people, they want a reaction. They want to prove how much braver they are then the rest of us. They're like Bizarro Hippies -- they want to fight the Establishment, Man, especially now that it's starting to realize that maybe black people aren't so terrible after all. It's harder now to pretend that their views are in any way legitimate, and so they're lashing out like they usually do.

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