As a part of this conversation, I'm curious how you found that statement to be negative? I have several friends that are UU and they can be quite self deprecating and often make jokes at their own "groups" expense. I first heard that joke from one of them and they had a bunch more.
The thing is that I don't see how the joke is self-depreciating in and of itself. Why is it a bad think to support someone find their own spiritual path?
I think he was referring to kb's "They'll have heard it" snide remark rather than UUs. I for one have no idea what a UU is. I've never heard about it before your comment above. I love how hubski ceaselessly penetrates my bubble.
What the fuck part of "they'll have heard it" is snide? There are jokes in the world. Some of them get told more than others. Unitarians, more than any other religion, go out of their way to be welcoming and inviting to all faiths. This is a positive thing. However, it includes the baggage of being welcoming and inviting to everything even when things start getting silly. As self-awareness is a tenet of Unitarian Universalism, the ability to joke about said silly welcome and inviting quirkiness is pretty much a cornerstone. Such humor invariably includes poking fun at one's self and as the chicken joke is pretty much Patient Zero for all jokes, it gets told a lot. here's a whole page of them. Here's where things really go off the rails - I tell someone "they've probably heard your joke before" and I'm "snide." You, on the other hand, go off on a tear about the abolition of all religion. That makes you, what? Thoughtful?
kb, I want to apologize to you for my rude comments from last week. You were right in your assumption that the anger was not 100% directed at you. I was stressed out with work and personal shit and your comments pushed me over the edge. Although I do not appreciate comments like "That makes you, what? Thoughtful?" my response was over-the-top and misguided and flat out wrong. Regardless of stress or no stress, your words or no words, there is no excuse for my actions. My response was uncalled for and I am sorry. I do value your contribution to hubski and your stories. Even if I misunderstand, or misinterpret, or disagree with something you say, I should never have responded in the way I did. I also want to reiterate that the "fat" comment was not directed your bodyweight, rather a poorly-chosen adjective meaning "extreme." Although I apologize and wish I could erase everything I said, I hope you especially understand that I truly did not intend insult your weight or open up some old internet drama between you and the reddit masses. Again, I am sorry for my words. There is no excuse and I will keep my hatred & anger off hubski and away from you from here on out. I hope you can accept my apology and put this internet drama behind us. <3 insom ps: anyone else that is reading this, I hope you also accept my apology and understand that I regret filling this thread and community with anger and hate and promise it won't happen again. I'm quite embarrassed and ashamed of my actions. I am sorry
This comment made my day. I've been wondering what world of shit you'd stepped in and I hope you're on the other side of it now. I wholeheartedly accept your apology and cheerfully acknowledge that I could have been a little less snarky. However, I doubt that's going to change. Know that I'm trying.
Well that escalated quickly. Honestly, I don't think you meant to be snide with the remark but sometimes it just sucks to have someone poop on you. For example if I say "It's so sunny! I want to go to the beach! Yeeeehaww" and someone replies "It's be super windy at the beach." It is just simply poopy. And that is what I took from that comment of yours. He was excited to share something. And you pooped on it. As for this comment. You are a fat fucking dickwad and I am flat-out sick of your self-righteous "I'm so special because I've been on Reddit and I want shit made just for me and everyone should hear me speak because I am the most fucking interesting man in the world." You aren't fucking special. You are exactly like every other person on this planet who has some interesting shit that you share. You can write and you write all day long and have garnered attention for that. But it doesn't make you special. Your personality is such a fucking turn off I would prefer to not hear anything you ever had to say over getting a few seconds of pleasure from one of your stories. Cunt.
Quite. We went from "It's be super windy at the beach" to "You are a fat fucking dickwad and I am flat-out sick of your self-righteous 'I'm so special because I've been on Reddit and I want shit made just for me and everyone should hear me speak because I am the most fucking interesting man in the world.'" "Your personality is such a fucking turn off I would prefer to not hear anything you ever had to say over getting a few seconds of pleasure from one of your stories." "Cunt." There's a trope around here that if someone let's you know that it's gonna be windy at the beach, they obviously mean "so have a shitty fucking time" when in fact they might just be saying "I was at the beach today, it's windy." You can take that personally if you want. I can't stop you. I'll just point out that if Person A says "Unitarians have likely heard the joke about the Unitarian crossing the road" but Person B says "You are a fat fucking dickwad, cunt" ...a casual observer might be tempted to comment on the personality of Person B. The "fat" thing, by the way? That pretty much shows as evidence that I've been on your mind a hell of a lot more than I should be. The 'kleinbl00 is fat' thing is from two years ago on Reddit. When I weighed 12 lbs more than I do in this picture. Which was posted here. Have a better day. I'm not sure what this is about, but not even I am arrogant enough to think this is about me.Well that escalated quickly.
I'm 100% over this conversation but wanted to point out that fat was describing the level of dickwad not your weight or past weight. I had no idea that you were/are fat or that was ever an issue/thing.
I know, I just didn't find it snide but just cautionary. And.. UU refers to Universalist Unitarian which is a group in search of "truth," but with no real affiliations to any particular dogma. They tend to borrow from all of them to construct a narrative or creed that best suits their life/journey. I've really liked the UU's that I've known in life. Most of them attend the services just to have a group of people to commiserate with.
The biggest issue I have with certain strands of atheists is that they would love nothing more than all religion obliterated from entire world. While I don't personally do religion or church or find pleasure or community in those things, I realize that offers exactly that to many people. It is where they develop close relationships and find a way through stress or grief or life in general. It's an interesting thing to think about. What if religion suddenly vanished, churches disappeared, and all the hierarchy of religious leaders were just normal people? How long would it take for communities and people who rely on the churches to adapt and find other means of coping or building friendships or getting advice? How long until people adapted to not having that structure in their life? And what would happen in the meantime? More violence or less?Most of them attend the services just to have a group of people to commiserate with.
People would find other things to belong to: Political parties, rotary club, sport teams etc. People crave the "herd". That's why someone that has never picked up a football in their lives or attended a university can be a die hard ___fill in the blank___ university football fan. That same person will kick the shit out of the opposing teams fans if they so much as look in the wrong direction. Why? Because they are the other. People crave the herd and they crave the other. -A clearly defined enemy makes people sleep well at night. So if churches disappeared, you would see a huge influx in the amount of declared Democrats/Republicans. You would see sporting paraphernalia sell like hot cakes and nationalism would be at an all time high. We are tribal at our core. Religion feeds on this need as does nationalism. Everyone likes to be able to say, "I am a ____." That's why this is one of my favorite song lyrics: "I don't believe in Beatles, I just believe in me". -John LennonIt's an interesting thing to think about. What if religion suddenly vanished, churches disappeared, and all the hierarchy of religious leaders were just normal people? How long would it take for communities and people who rely on the churches to adapt and find other means of coping or building friendships or getting advice? How long until people adapted to not having that structure in their life? And what would happen in the meantime? More violence or less?
The Year I Started A Cult So in 1992 we worked on cars. A lot. And being kids, and working on cars, and spending a lot of time dealing with electrical gremlins and the Quest for Top Dead Center and determining whether it's the spark or the vapor that keeps an engine from running, you get superstitious. It didn't help that my mother's faith is basically superstitious animism; any important decisions get run through the I-ching. My father, for his part, is a devout atheist who has been known to cross his fingers when things matter. And in 1992, one of the super-seniors in town bought a GSXR-1000. He had owned it for a couple months before he - and his girl - decided to blitz down main hill road at 85 miles an hour. To no one's surprise, they took it wide. Right into a '76 VW Bus driven by an old English teacher of mine. Everybody survived, miraculously. Think the two of them went through the windshield of the bus, which prevented them from plummeting off the 300-foot cliff to their left. Not before denting in the gas tank of that gixxer six inches with their crotches, however. "Crushed pelvis" is, in my opinion, one of the most evocative phrases in medical literature. So in 1992 we worked on cars. And my buddy… he wanted the fuel filler off that gixxer so bad. So bad he could taste it. And the bike was sitting, wrecked, at Knecht… and it's not like it had any resale value… and it's not like anyone would want a fuel tank doing its best "crushed beer can" impression. So we stole it. Walked right up at midnight and put it in the back of the Subaru. It took maybe ten minutes with a couple pairs of Wiss before we had a jaggedy-ass fuel filler and a mangled, gnarled piece of Japanese steel that smelled of blood and Super Unleaded. So what do? "Sacrifice it to the Demon," I said. Do what now? It's not like I had a plan. It's not like it was premeditated. It's not like I even knew what that meant. But my buddy was so enthusiastic that I had to come up with a ritual on the spot. It was a good ritual. It had legs. We would solemnly drive down to the intersection of my street and Club road, where the path led up to the golf course. We would then walk sanctimoniously up the path for the quarter mile or so it took to get to the abandoned water tank. We would then climb up the ladder to the top of the tank, say a few words, and drop the Suzuki carcass in. BAM. Evidence of the crime disposed of, mechanical gremlins that curse all projects appeased, life would go on. And fuckin' A, it was fun. It was infectious. Whenever we needed a little luck, we'd "Sacrifice something to the Demon." No one ever asked who or what the Demon was, or why the Demon lived in an abandoned water tank, or what its peculiar taste for dead car parts was about. However, when you put on a new carburetor, the old carburetor (or whatever parts you could scavenge, presuming you needed the old one for a core charge) would go to The Demon. And over the course of a year or two, certain embellishments appeared: - The odometer must be reset before driving to the path - Music must not be played and words must not be said - Wild Turkey must be poured on the ground before approaching the Sanctum Sanctorum, i.e., the Golf Course - An incantation must be recited: "Oh great and mighty Demon we approach thee with no fear in our hearts and no hatred in our souls, we seek your benefaction in pursuit of mechanical excellence" - The path must not be deviated from and no words could be said until all participants reached the top of the water tank - Another incantation must be recited by the officiant - "Oh great and mighty Demon we request a boon from thee" - prior to the donor requesting specific or general benefits ("I humbly request, O Demon, that the rear main seal on the small block we just put in the Hote not leak"). - Wild Turkey must be poured upon the demon prior to the donation and after, and then everyone must drink (at which point, all solemnity was off - we were just a bunch of teenagers sneaking booze on top of an abandoned water tank a hundred yards off the golf course on a Wednesday) - Silence and solemnity must be observed back to the car It was only when I started thinking about what sacrifices I'd make to the Demon to make my own monster run that I realized I'd not only conjured a religion from whole cloth, I'd taken it from animism to Catholicism in the space of nine months. Gotta say, it gave me pause. Gotta say it also gave me some insight into human nature - I was an angry, angry, ANGRY atheist at the time, or so I thought. Yet I needed this ritual. My success depended on it. There was no "demon" before I invented it on a whim, yet I was completely spun up in a fantasy of my own making. "And Man created God in his own image." - Ivan Albright I wish I could say I laughed at myself, set my hobo horde of nuts and bolts aside and went on to lead a spiritually rich yet trapping-free life, but that would be a lie. I went and did my sacrifice. Alone. Just in case. I asked about a girl, too. * * * That was the last time I sacrificed anything to the Demon. Most of us, the core three or four, let it lie. We still drank bourbon, we still believed it unlucky to fix a car without the car drawing blood at least once in the process, and the Kawasaki fuel filler never did make its way onto a car - too difficult. The ricer phenomenon ten years later proved we were on to something. I did have a friend, though. Not a close friend, but a friend. He liked tagging along. And one night he came to me because he needed a sacrifice, and he needed it bad. He'd brought along another friend that had never participated in our rituals. Could I officiate over one more? I demurred - I had shit to do and this was getting weird. They pressed, though. They needed some luck. So I split the difference - I explained the important parts of the ritual and that they could carry on without me. They did. For years. That particular spot of forest burned down in 2000. They condemned the water tank and tore it down. I wonder what they thought of all the car parts.
This is such a wonderful story KB. The last line is magical. Here's why: many of us have found things in strange places and suspect there's a back story that we will never know. The last line throws me into those "message-in-a-bottle" situations. Has it already been published somewhere or is this its first appearance?
I still can't drive past a cemetery without holding my breath, when someone mentions something promising that may occur in my life, I can't help but knock on wood. These superstitions toggle the line between wishful thinking and my own personal dogma. I really enjoyed this comment, thanks for sharing. Also, that Ivan Albright painting is amazing! Wow.
I also chose to omit the "Yoko and me" bit. I think the song Imagine is entirely about human nature and not just institutions. Those institutions exist for a reason, there is a desire in most of us to have them. That said, this is why that lyric is so freeing. Because of consciousness and free will, we needn't be slaves to our superficial desires. We will always need people in our lives, hence the "Yoko and me", but we don't need institutions. Country and religion exist as a result of human nature.
And that's what (so far) I like about UU. It provides that environment for self growth or to find a way through a situation in life without beating you over the head with a specific dogma. Rather, it presents many for the individual to decide what they relate to most.It is where they develop close relationships and find a way through stress or grief or life in general