a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by b_b
b_b  ·  434 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The Untold Story of the Insular Texas Family That Invaded the U.S. Capitol

I somewhat think that Biden should pardon all trespassers who aren't accused of vandalism or obviously violence against the Capitol police. One of the use cases for the presidential pardon that was written about in the Federalist papers was for general amnesty after, say, a political uprising. I think it would go a long way to healing to just say that trespassing is pardoned. Accepting a pardon doesn't make you not responsible for the crime legally; it just means there won't be any further punishment. Not sure if they'd get it, but I think that olive branch is worth extending. The country needs to heal and I don't think that 1000 individual prosecutions for entering a federal building unlawfully are a way to do that. I know this is an unpopular opinion on the left, and I welcome the alternate view.





kleinbl00  ·  434 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I could see it going this way:

1) Actual prosecutions and convictions against Donald Trump, Steve Bannon, Enrique Tarrio (who is probably an informant, and likely already has a deal), Alex Jones, Roger Stone and anyone else with a front-row seat to insurrection followed by

2) Amnesty and a nominal period of probation in exchange for a guilty plea of misdemeanor trespassing subject to revocation in the event of future felonies.

Yes, the country needs to heal. But our neoliberal white globalist koom bay ya protestant upbringing is the only one in the world that truly believes there should never be retribution, vengeance or retaliation for violent acts.

The dumb wandering fucks need to be tagged if not bagged, if for no other reason than to sniff their assholes as they wander around buying freedom frog penis pills from each other. Are they a proximate threat to democracy? No, but they sure do adulate those who are. Letting that sort of sentiment skate has never ended well.

am_Unition  ·  434 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I think it would go a long way to healing to just say that trespassing is pardoned.

Oh, is this the thing that will, if conceded, give the GOP a chance to redeem themselves, even if only infinitesimally? No. Of course not. The pundits will immediately spin this as "See? It really was just some lost tourists after all, and the prosecution was always overblown!". lol the idea of Tucker going on air even one single time to say "Hey, whattya know, maybe this Biden guy isn't the worst thing ever in the entire universe?!" is hilarious, dude.

Also, it does not matter that granting a pardon conflicts with other narratives; It was antifa, it was instigated by the feds, it was justified and Ashli Babbot is righteous, it never even happened, etc., because cognitive dissonance is staple of fascist movements.

Another issue is discerning who was violent and who was not. This isn't a point made in my own favor, as of course I believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty. But the violence was very widespread, and the point of anyone trespassing was obviously to commit a crime by obstructing the official proceedings. Watch the footage! Nobody just strolled up, saw zero violence occurring, and moseyed into the building on accident. Everyone was on social media, fully aware of what was happening. The justice system has handled this admirably, imo, and has even handed out many lenient sentences below what prosecutors and the law have recommended. For justice to prevail, people need to be deterred from making, y'know, fucking insurrection attempts in the future. Thinking that a pardon somehow deters or protects against that is... No. No.

The election denialism "movement" continues. Extending an olive branch will be systematically exploited, and the democrats are spineless enough as it is.

I realize that many will perceive my own views as the other side of the coin of escalating extremism. It absolutely (sort of) is! I have no fucking idea what to do to de-escalate our politics. The MAGA movement will not subside, and there is no good-faith bargaining with them.

b_b  ·  433 days ago  ·  link  ·  

To be clear, I’m under no illusion that it would affect the Qs out there. Might even make them worse. I think it might, however, sway the swayable moderates that this doesn’t have to be a forever war. It would be an olive branch, not a panacea.

am_Unition  ·  433 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Maybe the people in your social circles who self-identify as "moderate republicans" are either closeted radicals or future corporatist democrats who haven't yet figured out which voting pattern will preserve all of their wealth.