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comment by War
War  ·  2289 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Why Rape Is Sincerely Hilarious

I think we are in agreement then? A feminist would find this heartbreaking/appalling because that is part of what feminism is about. Those who don't find this wrong aren't feminists, even if they refer to themselves as such.





tla  ·  2289 days ago  ·  link  ·  

At the risk of "no true scotsman", yes. But I'd phrase it differently.

They can identify as whatever they please. If they say they are feminist, then ok, they are.

But identifying oneself as feminist doesn't make one good at feminism.

They are feminists who are utterly terrible at feminism.

Isherwood  ·  2288 days ago  ·  link  ·  

There's an odd truth here that I'm going to try to get at, but I think I'll have to ramble before I arrive.

My father was a salesman and he taught me a lot of interesting things about people. One of those things was to never listen to what a man tells you he is. He may be right, he may be wrong, but you'll never know on his words alone. It's his actions that define him.

My mother was a feminist. Her first real job was a home economics professor. She taught college freshmen in the back country she grew up in how to cook, clean, and maintain a budget. She was chastised by compatriots of the good fight for being so complicit, but those people never took the time to understand what she did. Every day she would take a group of people who didn't seem to have a chance and give them the skills to spend within their means and take control of their lives. She taught both men and women skills traditionally reserved for one gender so that all could have an opportunity.

All of this is to say, I've never given much stock to what people say they are and don't plan to anytime soon. You are defined by your actions, and trying to define those actions for others just takes time from actually being helpful.

junkysam  ·  2288 days ago  ·  link  ·  

This is a refreshing ideal. Too often we see news articles blasting people's idea's or actions without telling the full story, usually to sway politics. I admit that I am often affected by these but this usually gets me invested to look further into the story. I am sad to admit that I often come out disgusted with both myself (for being gullible) and the original source (for being deceitful). The best way would be to judge someone by their intent but that can be tricky as no one can read another's mind.

OftenBen  ·  2289 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Not at risk. Directly in exhibit of.

mrsamsa  ·  2289 days ago  ·  link  ·  

There wouldn't be a No True Scotsman there if they believe that a core principle of feminism is contradicted by someone who doesn't care about male rape or tries to excuse it.

galen  ·  2289 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Precisely. NTS is only a fallacy when one responds to a counterexample of a universal (e.g. "Here's a feminist that hates this video") by claiming simply that "no true Scotsman" (or feminist, autc.) would serve as a counterexample (by hating the video). It's a form of circular reasoning, when it's a fallacy.

OftenBen

OftenBen  ·  2288 days ago  ·  link  ·  

... Maybe I'm unusually thick today, but I still don't see the lack of fallacy.

tla asserts that not all [This large general group] are like [Offensive subset of group]

[Offensive subset] would assert that tla doesn't understand [General groups]'s core principles

tla says the same thing.

Both of them call themselves the same thing (Excluding differentiation between feminist and radfem which is a different conversation methinks).

Which one is correct in pronouncing the other's incorrectness? I know what the favorite is, but I'm not sure that it's a defensible position.

galen  ·  2288 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I mean, at that point it's an argument over semantics. But neither's reasoning is fallacious.

OftenBen  ·  2288 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    it's an argument over semantics.

Does that make it an unimportant one? Because the name that they both go by gets used to effect policy that goes on to effect lives.

galen  ·  2287 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I didn't intend to imply that it doesn't matter. The crux of my comment was "neither's argument is fallacious."

OftenBen  ·  2287 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Pardon me. It appears to be a sideline issue compared to the main popcorn show.

War  ·  2289 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Ah ok I understand what you are saying.