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comment by lil
lil  ·  3321 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Contradictions: How much should a 'Good' person think about other people?  ·  

    Do you save the world or savor the world?
Ben, you're engaging in binary thinking. As soon as you think in binaries, you stop seeing all the gradients and nuances along the continuum.

If you insist that things be one way or another (selfish or unselfish), you are giving words a power they do not deserve. Save and savor. Be selfish and generous.

I'm beginning to work on a piece called, Five or Ten Clues that You've Gone Binary. I don't know what those clues are, but your post suggests a few:

1. You are troubled by contradictions. One day, people say, "Look before you leap." The next day, they say "You snooze, you lose." or "He who hesitates is lost." They they tell you that haste makes waste. Instead of being troubled by these opposites, embrace them all and realize that it could be situational.

2. You avoid self-doubt. You want certainty. Instead, welcome self-doubt. Yes, you could be wrong, but if you have no self-doubt, you might be a monster.

and others that I don't know yet.





I_-_I  ·  3320 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Or, In the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes

I don't really think that they are contradictions. Some hold true in one situations, others in other. In an untimed game of chess, no need to make moves quickly but if you are Keanu Reeves in the movie Speed, you'd better act quick. If you are writing an application, you should take time to think through the various functions, but not get stuck in analysis paralysis, for example.

Reminds me of Ring Species. While they may be different at the "closing point" of the ring, they change gradually, not really contradicting one or the other.

OftenBen  ·  3321 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I am, and I'm aware of it.

Regarding point 1, why is being afraid/mistrustful/opposed to contradiction a bad thing? Conversely, why is embracing contradiction good? It feels like doublethink, in the orwellian meaning. Situationality I understand. Context is important.

Regarding 2, I have plenty of self doubt, AND I'm fairly certain I'm not too far from monster status. My convictions about the genetic future of the species are usually enough to get me compared to hitler.

lil  ·  3320 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Re #1: You ask:

    "Why is being afraid/mistrustful/opposed to contradiction a bad thing? Conversely, why is embracing contradiction good?"

Once again "bad" and "good" are binaries. Be opposed to contradiction - look for certainty in things that are important to you but embrace contradiction because certainty is elusive. Light is both a wave and a particle. I imagine b_b or kleinbl00 can explain that better than I can.

The things that are important: love, trust, fairness, justice, wisdom - can't be pinned down within the limitations of language and thought. These are behaviours.

as for #2: You can be full of self-doubt and be a monster... but if you have self-doubt, change is more possible than if you are abolutely certain of your rightness.

b_b  ·  3320 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Maybe physics is a good analogy here. I'll let you decide. The popular myth is that light is "both" a particle and a wave. This arises because physicists aren't good at explaining to the general reader that which they understand to be true, but can't impart on others without a whole lot of mathematics to back up their claims. I'll try to explain it thusly: the particle is the wave. In physics the two are used interchangeably and without contradiction, and the confusion arises when we try to apply our macro perspective to the world of the unseen. I suppose this is a good analogy, because using our limited everyday experience to try to extrapolate (rationally) what should happen at the micro scale fails miserably. The system is impenetrable to all but those who have a certain amount of prior knowledge (I'm not counted among them, FWIW). Here, ordinary logic fails.

kleinbl00  ·  3320 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I delved deeply enough into physics to get to the point where the professors go

"well, light isn't a particle or a wave but we can't explain what's going on to you without relying on one model or the other, depending on the conditions. Light's actually pretty funky and we're still sort of arguing about it. If you are keenly interested in this discussion we recommend you major in Physics but be warned because by the time you have a Master's in theoretical physics you'll understand the problem well enough to know why we're not going further in depth into the explanation."

b_b  ·  3320 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah it takes a graduate level course in QM to start to analyze the energy levels of the hydrogen atom.

lil  ·  3320 days ago  ·  link  ·  

thx otherben. My limited understanding has to do with math. When we want to measure wave- like behaviour (like speed), we can't measure particle-like behaviour (like mass or position). I probably have that wrong - but thanks for getting back to me.

Any argument against binary thinking that isn't itself binary makes my head spin.

kleinbl00  ·  3320 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle

You have it pretty close. Basically, you can know where it is or you can know what it is but you can't know both simultaneously. A gross oversimplification but when using theoretical physics for psychological analogies a gross oversimplification is often best.

lil  ·  3320 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You got me there exactly, kb. I'm on dangerous ground using theoretical physics for psychological analogies. And thanks for your answer to OB above. I agree with you 100%.

Ultimately all these types of questions are bad ways of asking:

1. How do I move in the direction of goodness without losing myself? or perhaps, 2. How do I craft an authentic life?

Your answer beginning with "I'll tell you what I do" is a fantastic set of principles and I hope they inspires anyone who happens by the list to write their own. Particularly this:

    I don't give advice to people who don't want it. They're not listening and all it'll do is piss them off. I do give advice to people who want to change.

I'm going to "save" that comment because it's a good leaping off point for real-world conversations I find myself in.