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comment by user-inactivated
user-inactivated  ·  1829 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Can we cogently refute "stealing is stealing"?

I disagree with property from an ideological standpoint and I disregard property rights whenever convenient. Intellectual property is really convenient. I have no problem with being called a thief for fallacial reasons because I'm fine with being called a thief for legitimate reasons: I steal real, physical objects, sometimes for money. It's a fantastic rebuttal. Yes, I steal. You cannot stop me.

If I think an artist should have my personal financial support, I will go to a show, buy a ticket, buy a shirt or patch or even media at their merch table, and maybe toss some cash in the tips jar. They'll get 100% of my money, sans label or PayPal fees, and I get a more memorable experience than a pile of FLACs. Last time I was at a show, I dropped $30 on shitty t-shirts, and my friends (that I introduced to the band via my pirate ways) dropped more. Good tradeoff, no matter how you count it, and it didn't require the exercise of intellectual property.

Don't argue the semantics of the word "stealing". Attack and offend the idea of property (whatever form) directly. According to IP, copying is stealing. Embrace and acknowledge it. If you want to argue about why IP isn't a social construct worthy of maintenance, do so. But don't try to nullify its points while leaving the rest of it standing, because the rest of it is very clear on the fact that point exists.





galen  ·  1828 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I disagree with property from an ideological standpoint

Bit off topic, but mind expounding on why? I've been reading more into socialism, anarchism and related philosophies lately and I'd love to hear your take on the property issue.

user-inactivated  ·  1828 days ago  ·  link  ·  

nope i'm way too lazy and anxious to even bother, have some fun with your reading though it'll do ya good

galen  ·  1828 days ago  ·  link  ·  

no problemo. thanks anyway

user-inactivated  ·  1829 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    But don't try to deconstruct its points while leaving the rest of it standing, because the rest of it is very clear on the fact that point exists.

Do you mean don't deconstruct the points of intellectual property while leaving the rest of property in general standing?

Because I am definitely against the concept of intellectual property itself and would love to see it abolished, but I'm not sure about physical property rights.

b_b  ·  1829 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I am definitely against the concept of intellectual property itself and would love to see it abolished...

Out of curiosity, have you ever created any IP? Not trying to be a dick; it's a serious question.

user-inactivated  ·  1829 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I have, in fact. Although none of it is currently marketable regardless of whether it's truly original content or not, I do have more creative endeavours planned in the future, and in spite of that, I still think intellectual property is mostly a sham.

b_b  ·  1829 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Speaking from experience, marketability will probably change your perspective.

user-inactivated  ·  1829 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That's entirely possible; I've had pangs of thought about it before. Although, most likely, it won't involve open-source software. That stuff, where I develop it, has already culturally shifted its paradigm to the marketing of services around the software instead of the software itself.

thenewgreen  ·  1829 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I think food should be free.

Have you ever owned a restaurant?

no, but I have a refrigerator but nobody likes the food I keep

I think if you owned a restaurant, you might change your thinking.

Ive considered opening a restaurant in the future

Yeah, let's revisit this topic after you open it.

user-inactivated  ·  1829 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I feel like I've struck a nerve somewhere.

But anyway, as for the restaurant analogy, I would object to the notion that I have to be a successful creator in order to even have an opinion on intellectual property. I'm still working on it (and I've tried a few times but they've all fallen flat), and in terms of making open-source software rather than works of art, I have actually gotten places with a team of people, and we make a game that's currently being enjoyed by a small community.

Perhaps my opinion won't be as weighty or relevant until I make something truly marketable, but to dismiss it outright seems a bit harsh.

    I have a refrigerator but nobody likes the food I keep

Perhaps I shouldn't have been so self-deprecatory when I said "my creations are so bad". A bunch of people have in fact expressed appreciation for the things I've created, and I've reached a lot of people with my work. By marketable, I meant something that would keep its presence on the large-scale commercial creative market, not just something a lot of people would like.

In fact, come to think about it, I've had a small business deal with a company in the past with regards to a game I created. So while I may not have opened a restaurant, I've definitely run a bake sale that turned up actual proceeds.

thenewgreen  ·  1829 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Of course you are allowed to have an opinion. I would never suggest otherwise. However, let's pretend that your "bake sale" was successful and that you depended on its success in order to do things like pay your rent, buy food etc. Now let's pretend that someone took your loaf of bread you were trying to sell and began giving it away, right next to you to people, some of whom would have gladly paid you for that same loaf of bread.

Also, for what it is worth you have not hit "a nerve" I just don't agree with you. I think it's been a cordial discussion. Also, in no way do I mean to suggest that you don't have the ability to create awesome software. I have no idea of your abilities, I just mean to suggest that your opinion would almost surely change if you were making software and getting paid for it and were reliant on that money and someone came along and stole it.

user-inactivated  ·  1828 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Also, for what it is worth you have not hit "a nerve" I just don't agree with you. I think it's been a cordial discussion.

Well, that's good.

    Also, in no way do I mean to suggest that you don't have the ability to create awesome software. I have no idea of your abilities, I just mean to suggest that your opinion would almost surely change if you were making software and getting paid for it and were reliant on that money and someone came along and stole it.

It just felt like you were acting just a tiny bit aggrieved with your "let's revisit this topic after you open it" line (and the "nobody likes the food I keep" line also came off as somewhat derogatory), especially since b_b had said essentially the same thing and you were replying to my reply to him as if to further force the point.

user-inactivated  ·  1829 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm clearly speaking about IP in the immediate preceding sentence but the statement could apply to any conclusion drawn from a system of ideology