a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Internet Archive Will End Its Program for Free E-Books

    Also fuck this guy.

This guy?

This guy.

This guy.

______________________________________________________________________

Here's the thing. Internet Archive is the tool of people who want to google something and download it. If it's public domain, hell yes. Let's do that. But if it's not?

There's this perception that libraries somehow don't understand digital. They do. There's this perception that you can't get digital stuff from libraries. You can. I guarantee that for 99.9% of people bored at home, Kanopy is much more appealing than the Internet Archive. There's also this perception that libraries are these places where you get books for free. They're not. Libraries are community resources where tax dollars support the information and public works needs of the community they serve.

Libby kicks the shit out of Kindle from a functionality standpoint. It didn't used to. Overdrive was a pig. It's not anymore. And libraries track what's being borrowed, what has a waiting list, what the needs of their community are. Internet Archive? See that would trample your freedom so obviously it's bad. And while Internet Archive mostly serves bored people at home with a computer, libraries were the ones handing out chromebooks to indigent families, manned by people whose passion is to get you that thing that you need, the weirder the better.

See that book? That book is usually around $800. But I was able to get it from a university library in Kansas for three weeks for free because we have this system in place that allocates resources based on community need. That book you're downloading for free from your local library for two weeks probably cost the library $40-$65, paid for by tax dollars, access controlled in order to satisfy the publisher's requirements, which get the author paid.

Paid his $5k advance, which is all he'll ever see.

'cuz that's the thing: Authors get paid shit. They've gotten paid less and less and less; Chuck Wendig may not be a member of the author's guild but my buddy Doug is the President and I'm here to tell ya? The advice I get from Doug makes sense 30 years ago. Those $5k $10k $25k advances used to be $50k $100k $250k.

And then digital happened.

So if you would like your information to be something other than vanity press bullshit from the lower-achieving kids of the ruling class, you need to be okay with mechanisms that pay authors. 'cuz I got a book? encouraged and shepherded by two NYT bestselling authors? Edited by a guy with a Pulitzer? Over the course of three years? That was judged "not worth a $5k advance" by about a dozen and a half agents.

Pop literature sucks for the same reason pop music. The people who need to make money doing it are doing something else while the people who can fuck around masturbating for years at a time are doing whatever they can for "exposure." And that has a lot to do with the fact that whenever you tell someone that their content providers can't work for free they say I WOULD SO DOWNLOAD A CAR!

I say this as an active member of five or six different torrent sites. But I also say this as someone who paid Audible $20 a month for about 10 years, who currently pays Tidal $20 a month, who pays for Netflix and HBO. There will always be a way to get free shit. The problem is, when The Internet decides they can do better than the existing structures that have been painstakingly established through decades of contract law, it's the little guys who get crushed.

And Chuck Wendig isn't even a little guy.



kleinbl00  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The pathetic thing isn't that you're going back to 2010 to find an off-topic hot take about nothing in particular. That would be pathetic enough. The truly pathetic thing is you've been trolling Twitter to figure out what your peers think is offensive.

Naaah, dog, just kidding. That isn't offensive.

What's offensive is that the only contribution you have to make to this discussion is to change the subject and say durr hurr this guy wrote something about porn.

---
tacocat  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Sure. Whatever

---
user-inactivated  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
tacocat  ·  1409 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I also only skimmed it after reading the first paragraph and realizing this is a man who is paid to write

---
user-inactivated  ·  1409 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
tacocat  ·  1409 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm sure his take on porn sucks ass for multiple reasons

His exchange with Lin Manuel Miranda in 90% baby talk makes me want to never read again.

---
user-inactivated  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
kleinbl00  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I'm just observing that when your mechanism for getting authors paid is just Patreon with extra steps, and it relies on nobody cheating or otherwise the whole system collapses - then your system is already doomed to fail.

That's not the system we have, though.

Torrenting is becoming quaint and antique because there are far easier methods to acquiring content. That's really where downloading took off: you can get in the car, drive to Sam Goody, walk upstairs, rifle through the racks, find that Whitney Houston CD for $18, go back downstairs, wait in line, pay $21 with tax, unwrap it, pop the disc in your car radio and hear a song or you can look up Whitney Houston on Napster for free. Thing of it is, you can look up Whitney Houston on Spotify and it will remember what you listened to, show you other artists like Whitney Houston, give you a curated playlist for fans of Whitney Houston and charge you $10 a month.

And $10 a month is enough to push torrenting into hobbyist status.

You can do that with books. It's called libraries. Your tax dollars pay for them. It's not "patreon with extra steps" it's a collective marketplace for the distribution of shared resources. Libraries are about as Leftist as they come but Internet Hipsters hate them because it requires them to learn a new interface.

    the more people who check out books at libraries because they know that's a thing you can do, the less books that get sold, and then the 5k advances get rarer, and shrink to 2k or 1k.

We've had libraries since Alexandria yet publishing persists.

Look. I got that Sterle book out of the library in Kansas. I held onto it for the three weeks I was allowed to and then I returned it. I have an eBay alert to let me know whenever it shows up - specialist jewelry books are fuckin' crazy rich people rare book territory and their prices are insane. I've consistently not paid $1300 for it, $800 for it, $600 for it, $750 for it. It went for $450 once and I really thought about it. This morning, to prove a point, I looked it up and found it on Abe Books for $170 so I bought the shit out of it.

Even though I can get it through Interlibrary Loan if I really need to. once you can do that again, anyway.

We have a system. it works. It has worked for millennia. But there's a corner of the Internet that simultaneously holds up authors and goes "rabble rabble the only fair price is free" because if they're screwing Simon & Schuster out of $19.50 they don't think it matters that they're screwing the author out of 50 cents.

It matters.

---
user-inactivated  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
kleinbl00  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You still want this to be "getting mad at pirates for stealing books" and that's not it. That's not it at all.

This is "getting mad at tech billionaires for making it easier to steal stuff they don't even own."

My regrettable roommate down in LA issues takedown notices for a living. That's it. That's the gig. He works for a firm that, for a set amount of money, will police various forums, youtube channels and other internet watering holes for content they're paid to police. If the bots his company employs sees that content, he fills out a DMCA notice with a few clicks and the content comes down. The whole process is automated except for the part where he clicks on stuff, I believe because there has to be a human doing the clicking according to law.

This means that he does things like issue takedown notices for the Lakers, but not the Kings. He pulls Lady Gaga content off of Facebook, but not Youtube. It comes down to who pays him. If you're getting paid for it, you come up with a system and you apply it. If you're not, you're screwed. So Lady Gaga has a lot more of her stuff taken down than some dude with a Soundcloud.

What we're looking at here - what you're personifying - is outrage at an individual author saying "you're stealing my content" because we're so used at our justified rage at anyone who says "stop stealing my content." And yeah - back in the day? I had to go to Blockbuster and rent some DVDs to grab clips to put in the screenwriter's vanity reel because Disney hadn't so much as thrown a DVD at him. I have another friend who had to ask how to grab a copy of his movie off of Amazon because outside of the $5k they paid him for the screenplay, he didn't even have a name to contact. I have another friend who got 6700 largely negative reviews on IMDb for a movie he produced before the movie came out because one of his distributors leaked it on The Pirate Bay. Things are fucked up all over, for sure. I mean, Dan Ariely features a lengthy discussion he had with someone who pirated Predictably Irrational in his book The Honest Truth About Dishonesty in which the pirate is congenial and friendly and engaging right up to the point where Ariely suggests that based on the strength of the conversation, maybe the pirate should buy a copy.

You can be mad about the imbalances in the system, the wealth concentration, the unfairness of contracts. But can you be mad about that and also be mad at the authors when they point out that they'll take whatever money they can get? Because the argument you're making:

    Does the system really work if the 50k advances are now 5k, though?

Is that the world is a better place if nobody gets paid at all:

    I can think of a lot of other ways where publishers and authors could negotiate compensation for labor where no one goes uncompensated for their labor, but it appears that authors would rather fight tooth and nail for a chance at $2 an hour and will rabidly defend the system that allows them to continue to do so.

Those ways DON'T FUCKING EXIST.

    The reason the internet hipsters end up screaming at authors on Twitter is because they're tired of Gen X blaming all of society's problems on them instead of blaming the people who actually built the system or doing anything to improve the system they are in.

The reason the internet hipsters end up screaming at authors on Twitter is because if they all scream together loudly they can only hear the arguments of their fellow screamers. So here you are, bringing in San Francisco, The Koch brothers, Generation X and Patrion into the mix when what we're talking about is libraries.

---
user-inactivated  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
kleinbl00  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Let's not lose sight of the forest for the trees here - Chuck Wendig is currently being pilloried by all corners for tweeting

    Dear @NPR

    — uhh hey hi THIS IS A PIRATE WEBSITE. It’s not legit! WTF are you doing?!

You're now in the process of re-imagining the entire publishing industry so that you can still be mad at Chuck Wendig, lone non-member of the Author's Guild, over a lawsuit by the four largest publishers in the world against a tech millionaire's shady copyright end-run. My buddy Doug? Up in the New York Times saying the exact same thing and nobody has shit to say about it because he has the wisdom to not be on Twitter.

    I am all for access to information and entertainment, and remind folks that libraries here already allow you to take out e-books, even while their brick-and-mortar locations are closed. I used to work for a library system here in Pennsylvania, and libraries all around the country deserve their time to shine in this crisis, as we realize what vital institutions they are, both intellectually and as a service to the community.

You're now bent over so far backward to justify your dudgeon that you're taking the rhetorical position that libraries are bad.

---
user-inactivated  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
kleinbl00  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

The capital-P Problem is that the economics of authors, publishers, booksellers and libraries is something that authors, publishers, booksellers and libraries have hashed out since before Gutenberg while the lower-case-P problem is that shouty people on the Internet think things they like must always be good.

This war has been fought before. Back when people thought that Google wouldn't 'be evil' they scanned everything they could find under the aegis of expanding and preserving knowledge. Back then, everyone was mad at the Author's Guild because Google couldn't 'be evil' they said as much. The authors lost, after ten years and lots of money, and then tried again with HathiTrust, which they lost again. And here we are again, arguing about what fair use is and how to compensate artists and really, what it comes down to is the publishing industry has kind-of sort-of figured out how to make things work when the Internet swoops in and says "yeah we're not doing that anymore" without any real consideration for the impact on the people whose lives they're changing.

Creative destruction and all that. Rah rah Shumpeter. But music became a thing you couldn't make a living at because of that creative destruction. Writing has, too - remember, this battle was first fought in 2005. And yeah - it's super dumb that you have to jump through someone else's shitty DRM in order to enjoy your content and there bloody well should be a better way but when there are stakeholders attempting to protect their own interests the results will be awkward, slow and unwieldy.

Let's circle back:

    I think libraries are good, but they're definitely bad for long-term profits of the publishing industry.

Penguin Random House makes $3.3b a year. Everything they published when they started in 1927 is four years from public domain, yet "libraries" were 2600 years old when they were founded. There's an either/or assumption in the argument for digital books that's based on... nothing. There's no basis for it. There's the inherent idea that you either have libraries or you have hard core capitalism and there's no middle ground and the thing that bugs me is whenever an author or a musician says "they're stealing my work" the Keyboard Kommandoes rise up to argue the impossibility of physical media in the Age of Spiritual Machines or some shit and it's not the subject at hand.

My beef? Is the knee-jerk need to say "fuck this guy" about someone who is thoughtfully attempting to defend his livelihood in the face of an Internet temper tantrum. Because we should be better than this. It's deeply disheartening to me that a guy who writes shit-tons of semi-okay sci fi is the Worst Person on the Internet but the guy who sold Alexa to Amazon so he could buy a bookselling conglomerate so he could offer to post used books online for a bounty is Dudley Goddamn Do-Right.

And all of it - all of it - is intellectually justifying our base instincts.

---
user-inactivated  ·  1408 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
kleinbl00  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  
This comment has been deleted.
kleinbl00  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

mk @bugski@ something borked and the tweets have malformed something. If I go to edit this post only about four sentences of the text are in there, and the tweets are gone.

---
kleinbl00  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Tweets aren't embedding at all.

---
mk  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Were you mobile? I think it has to do with the mobile twitter URL. I can fix.

---
kleinbl00  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Desktop.

If I "edit" that post, here's what Hubski thinks it contains:

This guy.

This guy?

    Also fuck this guy.
---
kleinbl00  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

There's something even more messed up - once I paste that into the comment above, it thinks this is all that post contains:

If I "edit" that post, here's what Hubski thinks it contains:

Desktop.

---
kleinbl00  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

---
tacocat  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

This seems a little weird but also Chuck Wendig went private which might be the problem

---
kleinbl00  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

... I wonder why.

---
tacocat  ·  1411 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Uh oh. Theoretical dessert based attack

---
orbat  ·  1409 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Time for a "both sides are the same", then!

---