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comment by kleinbl00

Would you like to know why the skeptics are losing, dear Ben? 'cuz I can tell ya. I had to fix this asshole's computer. Friend of mine was this asshole's receptionist. And I get to hear horror stories about Doterra every day.

Every.

Day.

I'm pretty goddamn close to the metal on this one. My clinic has lost patients because we participate in the Vaccines for Children program. You can sit there snarking about crazy pills but my livelihood has been attacked by both sides of this fucking catastrophe we call awareness these days because we dare to strike a moderate position.

You know what essential oils don't do? Cure fucking cancer. You know what else they don't do? NOT cure fucking cancer. You know what people with cancer will do in order to not die of cancer?

ANYTHING

So riddle me this: which is better for the patient, a cancer clinic that does chemo, radiation and chemo with radiation while scornfully forbidding the patient from doing anything but chemo and radiation... or a cancer clinic that will supervise all the woo that's fit to print? 'cuz you know what? Not only is the placebo effect real, it's increasing. So if you trust your doctor, whiffing peppermint oil as part of his Rx will actually help you beat cancer better than going off the rez and buying doterra peppermint oil, both of which may actually help you beat cancer better than no peppermint oil at all.

I think we can both agree that homeopathic remedies are abject bullshit. No scientific basis whatsoever. Any explanations of causality quickly go to Cybertron by way of Castle Grayskull. But you know what? Fuckin' anti-anxiety homeopathics raise my heart rate and make me sweat. And my super-annoying sister-in-law who had herself so twisted up inside she was about to have her gall bladder removed? Can't even remember being that sick after one stupid little tube of sugar pills under her tongue. Anecdata of two with zero reproduceability but this is the kind of shit the doterra reps live and breathe and five years ago, Doterra did $1.2 billion in revenue so fuckin' hell, man, if they want to pay their way into supervision I am there for it.

'member how batshit everyone went when Steve Jobs delayed chemo for a couple months to woo it out? The "skeptics" were all about how alternative medicine had killed Steve Jobs, torch'n'pitchfork torch'n'pitchfork torch'n'pitchfork. Now s'pose Steve Jobs could have done his woo at the cancer clinic. 'cuz that's what we're talkin' 'bout here. Complementary therapy. Bring the batshit indoors where we can keep an eye on it and if it makes you feel better we'll roll our eyes and say "fine" in the most condescending way possible but at least we can ensure that you're getting actual medicine.

But the "skeptics?" HATE that shit. Chemo, Radiation, The End.

Fundamentally? Y'all are dogma fetishists. Like catholics, but somehow more self-righteous. At least the anti-vax nutters throw parties.





OftenBen  ·  1567 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Do you think I oppose complementary treatment?

I do not. We have covered this before.

If someone thinks they have a cure and wants to do a series of studies to demonstrate safety and efficacy of their technique or substance, by all means, go right ahead. I support evidence based medicine.

I do not support the constantly made claim that essential oils will cure cancer by themselves and should be taken in replacement of chemotherapy other procedures. This is an idea that doterra and their people push, in my experience and the experience of others. That makes this involvement concerning.

Glad venting at me gives you the warm fuzzies.

kleinbl00  ·  1567 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yeah, dude. I think you oppose complementary treatment. I think you burn with the need to carve into anything that steps outside of the extremely narrow interpretation of medicine you choose to espouse because you are reliably and dramatically filled with opprobrium whenever it is mentioned in any context. I think this because

    If someone thinks they have a cure and wants to do a series of studies to demonstrate safety and efficacy of their technique or substance, by all means, go right ahead. I support evidence based medicine.

Primum non nocere, bitch. If someone wants to drink a bottle of ashwagandha extract, Amazon will give them three thousand choices by 3pm tomorrow. But if someone wants so much as an eye exam, hold on mutherfucker let's see your insurance card.

Did you know I got in a (published) pissing match with The Atlantic? They were in high dudgeon over the fact that ZOMG there's a "nonprofit" that's probably going to charge $4k a year for peanut powder. I pointed out that $4k a year is pretty much exactly the expense you must incur in order to get a treatment through the FDA these days. Aimmune has a market cap of two billion dollars and their only product is fucking powdered peanuts. The author couldn't say shit in response because really, he wanted people to be outraged over $2b in powdered peanuts without bothering to examine the economics of FDA-approved peanuts.

So your series of studies? I've been there. I've done that. And you know what? I can grow Ashwagandha in my goddamn greenhouse. Fuckin' echinacea is a weed. So if you want to prevent people from trying to take care of their own health, your only hope is to talk about crazy pills and "evidence based medicine" and be sure to get lots of guilt and outrage and morality in there because god knows, most people will do anything they can to maintain the support of the community they value so if you can let 'em know that for-profit medicine is the only real medicine they won't run out and buy any tea tree, right?

or maybe they just won't tell you about it

I know you think you're the only person who ever deals with anything medical ever? But two or three times a month I get woken up in the middle of the night because one of my wife's clients decided to take some goddamn folk remedy without telling anyone and now things are fuckin' pear-shaped and there goes my weekend and if we're lucky there won't need to be any aid cars or resuscitation and none of this would fucking happen if the whole of the liberal internet weren't itching for a chance to curbsmile anyone thinking of stepping out of line.

You know where doterra belongs? Bankruptcy court. But not even that would help anything because since it's an MLM, their "associates" can say any goddamn thing. And do. And sell shit to our clients. But you know what? If I could bring that shit under our own roof it'd happen a lot less. Know how I know? 'cuz I got three naturopaths on staff and it's not like we're prescribing more woo? But we're hearing about it a lot more because people are less afraid they're going to be burned at the stake.

I actually don't enjoy this. I get sick of you shitting on the carpet. Doesn't mean the shoe's gonna stop. I think you think you're on the side of angels here because again, dogma fetish. And yeah - let's do some peer review, let's do some investigation but 'member when $2m got approved by congress for that? ZOMG the "skeptics" couldn't reach for their crazy pills fast enough.

The thing you don't get? It is so much easier to smile sweetly and nod as they align their chakras and anoint themselves in kombucha and just let it the FUCK go but you are firmly enamored with the idea that "letting the fuck go" causes cancer.

Thus we continue.

OftenBen  ·  1567 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Whatever you say chief.

goobster  ·  1566 days ago  ·  link  ·  

So, in short, medicine for the body, and woo for the brain; the brain gets to think all its thoughts and fire up the placebo effect engine, while the medicine gets to work on the body and does its magic inside.

Seems like a good plan.

I wanted to be all huffy and indignant about doterra being "validated" by a legit hospital. But ya know what? You are right. Fix the WHOLE person - however you need to - not just the medical problem.

That's a pretty groovy and embracing message. I like it.

kleinbl00  ·  1566 days ago  ·  link  ·  

In short, primum non nocere - "first do no harm" - and there will be woo associated with cancer treatment. Keep in mind: twenty years ago cannabis was woo. Not all woo is completely inert. Some of it will react badly to the medicines you're taking. All of it will work better if the patient believes in it. So the person in charge of your health regimen? Better know your entire health regimen and if you're going to be scornful and derisive about the choices your patient makes you're going to be in charge of part of their health. The size of your participation is inversely proportional to the size of your scorn.

Wanna know how to kick a kid out of medical care completely? Deride and scorn his parents when they get dodgy about vaccines. Put up a fight, wrap yourself in self-righteous dudgeon and that kid won't see a doctor until they're eighteen at least. The "skeptical" universe really likes to beat people up for their stupidity and malfeasance so they can play madder-than-thou without spending any time on the core problem: distrust of the medical industry. In my experience, this is because they view the medical industry the way nuns view the Pope.

And they are the only ones.