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comment by tacocat

    What kills me the most is that people who don't vote because they feel disenfranchised by their choices, or the system, are literally casting the strongest vote possible for that system.

I met a guy who voted for Trump because Bernie lost the primary.

Book  ·  526 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You're missing the point. Bernie Sanders offered options to the working class American. He was someone willing to appeal to regular people and stand up to corporations from the beginning. On top of that he didn't beat around the bush when it came to socialist ideals and was pushing for free education from the very start.

The Democratic party did everything they could to not allow him to gain the platform he needed to succeed in the mainstream. Yes they are a private party, they (The rich white neo-liberals who fund the party) wanted Hillary, and they got Hillary.

Bernie represented liberal populism. Trump despite his shortcomings and blatant lies was conservative populism. People like Hillary stand in the same camp Mitt Romney stood in 2012: Out of touch rich elite who could barely pretend to give a damn. When Bernie was shot in the water many of his supporters who were regular working class people were not going to settle with the status quo and rather have someone who disrupts the system. And disrupt he did.

I voted for Hillary. Frankly at the time Hillary had a worse record was worse than Trumps when it came to the rights of people like myself. Seeing as she had a hand in pushing for the current system of detaining people of color in order to fill for profit prisons. Though you would be right in thinking she's grabbed less pussys and has had less interactions with Russian escorts. I voted for her, what else could I do.

But I know she was barely a better choice than Trump. Let's not kid ourselves - people wanted change and they voted for change. No one said they wanted the safe choice, working class people have voted the safe choice for a while now and their situations has only gotten worse. Maybe middle class folks can't see this, maybe they don't want to see that they benefit from this stability. I don't know, but it's clear that it's getting worse and the working people who are getting payed shit are force to deal with corrupt money grubbing rich snobs or the LARPING oil barons it's not much of a choice.

Trump offered populism, did he deliver I don't know and I doubt it. But Hillary was clearly adopting the ideas of Bernie's version of populism too late in the election cycle to fool anyone. The Democratic party showed it's true colors the last election cycle, it's sad to say but their best quality and highest aspirations is being better than the republicans. Now with Trump drowning the bar even lower I'm worried that the state of affairs will get much worse and the working people won't fall for this shit any longer.

user-inactivated  ·  577 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I know people that voted Trump because he was the "outsider" after WORKING on the Sanders Campaign.

tacocat  ·  577 days ago  ·  link  ·  

We both know morons

reddit_sucks  ·  574 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Attitudes like this are the reason for #walkaway. Stop calling everyone these extreme names if they don’t agree with you. Once I stopped watching the daily show every day and actually opened my eyes, I realized I (liberals) was the one who was actually brainwashed, not the conservatives like I had believed for so long.

tacocat  ·  574 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Bull fucking shit. How do you justify swinging from one extreme to the other cause your guy lost?

reddit_sucks  ·  573 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Because I thought I was like minded to most liberals but every time I tried to discuss anything they immediately insulted my intelligence, or called me a racist nazi etc. plus #metoo and #believewomen ran a false accusation truck over my family and I.

Just your statement says it all. I’ve never been on any extreme. I was a moderate liberal. Believed in health care for all, pro choice, etc. but liberals attacked me so hard that I started looking at the other side and they seemed to make a lot more sense to me. And we’re much kinder and rational when I disagreed with them.

I still believe in health care (although as a mentally and physically fit young person who makes healthy life choices, I’m starting to wonder if it’s fair for me to have to shoulder an equal percentage of the obesity crisis as someone who drinks 3 cokes a day and smokes cigs). I still believe that women should have a choice (but, within reason, and not necessarily fully paid for by taxpayers).

I’d just vote conservative now for sure as every time I try to have a rational discussion, liberals almost immediately go to an extreme and call me a racist/sexist moron.

I also started watching full clips of people like tucker Carlson (instead of just the 10 seconds Trevor Noah shows). The left always shows a 10 second clip of conservatives and manipulates viewers to believe that person is some kind of homophobic, racist monster. When I started watching the whole clip I realized the left was actually the one manipulating me and that a lot of the conservatives they were targeting actually seemed quite reasonable/rational/polite/etc.

ThurberMingus  ·  573 days ago  ·  link  ·  

So it doesn't sound like you changed your opinions much, just decided that you agreed more with the conservatives you talked to more than the liberals you talked to, and like Tucker Carlson more than Trevor Noah.

    every time I try to have a rational discussion, liberals almost immediately go to an extreme and call me a racist/sexist moron.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you aren't a racist/sexist moron, but the remaining options are (1) you are talking to an idiot, you picked the wrong liberal to talk to, or (2) you have such fundamentally different assumptions that rationality doesn't matter.

In response to (1) - if the first person to engage is an idiot, don't judge everyone else as an idiot too. Try not talking politics on platforms that encourage idiocy. Also, if you aren't talking to a troll, 99 times out of a hundred the conversation belongs in category (2).

About (2) - We can rationally talk about euclidean geometry if we agree to start by assuming that straight lines are straight and flat planes are flat. But if we don't agree on assumptions and try to have a rational argument anyway, we will end up calling each other morons and idiots because one of us might be brilliantly explaining Euclid's proofs while the other proves them all nonsense with the assumptions of hyperbolic geometry.

Politics isn't about rational discussion. It is about assumptions. Assumptions about who is important, and when, and why. Assumptions about who yields when there are conflicting rights.