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comment by johnnyFive
johnnyFive  ·  2273 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The fundamental lie at the base of American Conservatism

As long as that's a broader version of "faith" than is typical, I would agree. But it's laughable to suggest this phenomenon is only limited to the religious.





OftenBen  ·  2273 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I am not saying that it is limited to religious people. I am saying that religious people are better at it because they have to do it more frequently.

johnnyFive  ·  2273 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You're going to have to substantiate that some, because as it stands it just sounds like the usual edgelord derp derp religious people are dumb nonsense.

OftenBen  ·  2273 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Keep in mind the specific group that we are talking about in this post. The American Evangelical conservative. They compose a subsection of the larger group of 'Religious people.'

This group openly and unabashedly pursues and promotes science denying, literalist interpretations of the bible that run counter to what we can think of as scientific consensus. Young Earth creationism is one example. The teaching of abstinence-only sex education as a method to reduce incidence of teenage pregnancy is another. The point is that this group is very good at saying 2 + 2 does not equal 4. When you have practice in this you are better at it than people who do not.

The American Evangelical conservative composes some percentage of all religious people. The American Evangelical conservative is better at Double think than the average person. Religious people when taken as a group can be said to be better at doublethink because constituents of the group are.

To use an example of specifically twisting words:

When a parent abuses a homosexual child when they come out or afterward, many will say that they love their child and that the abuse is motivated out of love. To the best of my knowledge one cannot love a person and also physically abuse them. The word has been twisted. I don't know of many non-religious people who abused their children when they came out of the closet. If this example is particularly vulgar or hateful I'm sorry but it is the first one that comes to mind because it is close to my heart.

johnnyFive  ·  2273 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Except that's not what you said. You said that "religious people" (without further qualification) are better at ignoring the meaning of the words they use.

    Religious people when taken as a group can be said to be better at doublethink because constituents of the group are.

This is not a logically consistent or supportable statement, since you haven't shown that it applies to even half of religious people, much less most or all. All Protestants are less than half of the total number of Christians, and of course Evangelicals are not the majority of Protestants (or if they are, depending on the numbers you use, it's barely). Meanwhile, Christians represent less than half of all religious people on Earth.

Using the most generous numbers, Baptists of all kinds Pentecostals Misc. Evangelicals Mormons Jehovah's Witnesses number 489.8 million. That's 53% of Protestants, but only 20% of Christians and 6% of all religious people overall.

OftenBen  ·  2272 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's a general principle my guy.

Non-religious people don't have conversations like

'Wait, we should FEAR and love god?'

'Nono, you don't have to be AFRAID of god, you just have to be respectful of the fact that he could end all that you know in fire and torment instantly and for no reason. Not AFRAID but RESPECTFUL.'

As another example. Non-religious people don't have to have the same slippery relationship with words that religious people do. The bible says 'Fear and love god' and people worm their way around the word 'fear' to make it mean 'respect' even though the literal word is 'fear.'

At the churches that I am familiar with, this type of discussion and thought process features heavily.

This is not 'all religious people are dumb.'

This is 'Religious people in aggregate exhibit a behavior that non-religious people do not.' and that behavior is the non-literal interpretation of the written word. English majors dissect The Great Gatsby for meaning, disagree about symbolism and intent. They don't do it with the regularity and familiarity of a theologian whose whole job, as far as I can tell, is to play religious texts and history like an instrument.

johnnyFive  ·  2268 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It's pretty clear that you're letting your own bad experiences with a single congregation color your perception of religion as a whole.

I don't know where exactly you're quoting from with the "fear and love God" bit, so I can't say more on that point. But I have to wonder how productive it would be to do so.