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comment by snoodog
snoodog  ·  1192 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Stockholm lorry rams crowds, killing at least three people

Luckily only 3 people died (hopefully 4 soon to include the piece of shit that did this). Could have been much worse like the market attack.

I'll be interested if this will spark a national dialogue about Sweedish immigration policy or if government censorship will shut it down (I expect the latter). My bet is that this will be described as an isolated incident by a single rogue actor who is technically not a refugee.

johan  ·  1192 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I presume you are not Swedish, since you seem to be under the impression that we don't discuss immigration. Trust me, we do.

All. The. Time.

We even have a party in our parliament who's main goal is restricting immigration. If we had an election today, they would become the second biggest party.

I listen to "Ring P1" almost every day, which is a call-in show airing on the national public service radio channel. Immigration is on the agenda every single day. I watch weekly debate shows on public service television, and immigration is a frequent topic. Same thing in the regular debates between the different party leaders.

So please, fuck off with this meme about how immigration is a taboo topic in Sweden.

snoodog  ·  1191 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Do people in your country actually discuss real practical solutions to immigration problems or do they just yell at each other like they do in the us? News shows and public radio often have pieces on immigration but they are often public interest type pieces that urge for amnesty for illegal immigrants, that are then countered by rednecks saying we should deport them all. Practical solutions and compromises are rarey offered and the national dialogue feels like it's always between two radical and shitty solutions. The lefties keep screaming how we should accept anyone that wants to come to the us and that all immigrants are model citizens anyone that disagrees is simply racist The right isn't any better and wants to use our guns to deport them all and make America for Americans. That doesn't constitute a national conversion IMO just two groups of crazies yelling at each other

ButterflyEffect  ·  1192 days ago  ·  link  ·  

What has you personal experiences been like with regards to immigration in Sweden? Beyond the call in shows. Is there a large immigration population in Sweden?

johan  ·  1192 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I live in Malmö, where 43 % of people have foreign backgrounds (born abroad or with foreign-born parents). In my neighborhood, that number is 86 %. Sweden is heavily segregated, and not enough has been done to deal with it. Immigrants with degrees has had trouble in the past to make use of it, either because of overbearing bureacracy or lack of connections.

Look at 2) and replace city with country.

Fortunately, a lot of people and organizations seems to be waking up and trying to do the right thing. My trade union has started up language cafés to allow people to network, and some large construction companies just published a Swedish-Arabic dictionary for industry terms.

My parents were the children of poor farm-hands, and thanks to free education and government loans, they both got degrees and careers as professionals. If we steer clear of prejudice, I don't see why class journeys like that shouldn't be possible in the future.

kleinbl00  ·  1192 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I worked with a woman with a Ph.D in acoustics from the University of Leningrad. She emigrated with her husband (an electrical engineering lecturer from said-same) and son in '88. By the time I met her, she'd found the acoustics firm we both worked at and was being paid. But she'd had to work for free for more than a year before they gave her any kind of salary.

I started there with a degree not-quite a year old, and not in acoustics. About three years after I got there I got cc'd on the wrong email. Found out I made more than her. Like, 25-30% more.

I brought it up to her at one point - I was flabbergasted and it was completely unfair. She already knew. She just assumed. She shrugged it off and puffed on a Virginia Slim. She mentioned that nobody at the office respected her, never did, but at least it didn't say "Jew" on her driver's license anymore. She mentioned her husband had to drive a cab for six years before he finally was hired as an assembly technician at one of the local electronics firms. Lecturer. Electrical engineering. University of Leningrad. Their son? No prob. Magna cum Laude from MIT. It's just what it was. Russians are stoic.

I brought up a little later how stunningly competent she was to our boss a while later. He observed that whenever you see an immigrant in a position of technical expertise, they're at least twice as qualified as they need to be. And he fuckin' signed her (smaller than my) checks. If I hadn't already been actively interviewing for new jobs I woulda started.

The real problem is that anybody willing to become a refugee in order to find a better life is by definition more motivated than the people just trying to hang onto theirs... and these two groups of people can find themselves in opposition. One of the Republicans I follow came up with a solution: tax the shit out of immigrants 'cuz it'll keep the poor ones out. Then use the money to provide social services for Americans.

There's some truly appalling mental gymnastics there. Higher taxes lead to better social services... but don't do it with my money because I'm an American.

snoodog  ·  1191 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Simple solution would be to allow unlimited H1 visas but require that the person get at a wage that is at least in the top 1/3 of that profession and equivalent job skill. That would prevent problems with unqualified immigrants, wage pressures and lack of skilled folks. Ofcourse that would require paying immigrants instead of exploiting them so it would never happen.