I finally got around to looking up pricing for motorbike learner permits. The price has... gone up. I've been thinking about this for months and months. Pricing skyrocketed on April 2nd. If I'd had my shit together, I could have saved $280. Now if I want to do this, it's going to set me back $585 just for the permit course. Plus a check ride ~3 months after that. I guess I'm waiting until I get back from New Zealand to do any of that. Also, does hubski do motorbikes? Any tips/recommendations for someone who doesn't really know a damn thing about bikes other than that I like riding them?
I've been riding for more than 40 years. Short version (because I am at work at my groovy new job and need to get some stuff done): 1. If $585 is a lot of money to you, maybe a motorcycle is not the right thing for you right now. You are going to spend more than that on a new pair of tires, or having someone fix the repair/replace the brakes. Or you are going to spend that much when you fall over the first time, and have to replace turn signals, shifter lever, and a rear view mirror (not to mention plastic). 2. Your first bike should be cheap. Because you are going to break it. Probably a bunch. But if not, you still are going to learn on it, and then your mate is going to want one, so you can sell it to him cheap, and buy yourself a "real" bike. The Honda Nighthawk, any old Kawasaki KZ from the 1980's, any Honda CB that's less than 750cc and more than 25 years old, etc, etc, etc. Ask around. Tell your friends you are looking for your first bike. Someone knows someone with an old KZ500 in the back of the garage that they'll let you have for $500. 3. It really doesn't matter what you get, as long as it isn't a big 1000cc sportbike. Just get on a bike. Do your feet sit flat on the ground comfortably? Rock it back and forth between your thighs and feel the weight. Grab onto the handlebars and feel how your shoulders and back feel. Comfortable enough? Don't buy from someone you have zero connection to, like, off Craigslist, or whatever. Buy from someone you know, or from someone your friend knows. They'll be honest with you about the condition and problems with the bike. Then buy it. 4. Always ride with the proper riding gear. Always. Period. It's just that easy. 5. Ride as much as you can, away from the rest of the world. Residential streets. The warehouse part of town. Brake hard when you don't have to, so you can get the feeling for how the bike reacts when you need to do it for real in a panic situation. Use only the rear brake. Use only the front brake. Figure out how to stop before you start. It's easy to get bikes moving. It is hard to stop them. Work on the stopping part first. 6. Fix the shit that breaks. That's what YouTube is for. Take the seat off... just for the hell of it, and look what is underneath. Adjust the handlebars. Change the angle of the brake lever and the clutch lever. These all require you to loosen and tighten TWO bolts. Anybody can do that, but when you do, you suddenly will be way more in love with your ratty old bucket of bolts. Put a sticker or two on it. Make it YOURS. So when you sell it to someone else in 5-18 months, they can do the same thing and make it THEIRS with their own stickers and clutch adjustment, etc. 7. After you are comfortable with this bike, you will know what kind of bike you want to get for your "Real" bike. You will know if you want a cruiser or a sportbike, or a Thruxton, or a Honda, or a BMW, or a Ural with a sidecar. Right now you have NO IDEA what you want to ride. Yeah, you may think you do, but you don't. Ride for a while on whatever you can get your hands on. You'll figure it out. Then you can go buy the RIGHT bike for YOU. 8. Talk to every other biker you see. They will see your rat-ass piece of shit bike and love it. "Oh my god! I used to have a KZ440!! Damn... I loved that bike. But hey, watch this connection right here, because see how your foot has been rubbing on it? Yeah, keep an eye on it, or it'll leave you stranded in Tuscaloosa late one rainy night like mine did." REAL motorcyclists love motorcycles. All of them. You want these people as friends. They will have tools, knowledge, passion, and maybe even a lift, so when you want to do that chain replacement, you can call them up, go over to their house with a case of beer, and hang out and put the bike up on the lift and do it together. Welcome to the club. Remember to wave to every other biker you see.
Thank you for such a comprehensive response. I really appreciate it! Particularly points 4 and 5. Duly noted. The money isn't an issue, really. I just wasn't expecting the cost to have risen so much so quickly. Right before I go on holiday. But I knew it wasn't going to be a cheap affair! Good luck with the new job!
Thanks man! The new job is amazing. Keep up up to date on your motorcycling adventures. Even the "silly little things". For some of us, those little things happened so long ago, it's nice to be reminded of the excitement, the thrill, from new riders who experience these things for the first time.
https://hubski.com/tag/motorcycles?time=all briandmyers knows a thing or two as well. What, exactly, are you looking to know?
Well assuming I can get through the permit course (I've been told it's quite easy), I guess I'll be looking at second-hand bikes. What are the main things you'd want to look for when going for something second-hand? If you were to recommend any bike to a beginner, what would you go with?
I would recommend the one you love. Go to a few bike shops. Sit on a bunch of stuff. Listen to advice. Most bike shops also service so anything you buy, they're likely to get money out of. They may have bikes, too. Either way, fall in love with something, be it a style, a brand, a color, whatever, and find that. Know that you either need to learn basic maintenance or you need to pay someone. Motorcycles require more fiddling than cars by an order of magnitude. If you enjoy it, this is great. If you don't, it's a drag. Fortunately they're hella easier to work on. There's this trope amongs the Internet motorcycle community that OH GOD DON'T RIDE ANYTHING OVER A 250 and it's purest bullshit. You'd rather be on something that will get out of its own way because motorcycles don't brake as well as cars and they don't turn as well as cars so the only thing you can consistently do to avoid a problem is accelerate. Combine that with the fact that the secret to surviving a turn you underestimated is throttle, not brake, and "underpowered" isn't where you want to be. That said, you probably don't need a Hayabusa. If anything, I'd choose something that you can afford to lose, and I'd choose something that won't be worth nothing a year from now when it's time to move on. Most communities have a rotating pool of Ninja 250s that go from one learner to another. Those are fine. Pretty much anything Japanese will be ridden sparsely, dropped a half-dozen times and likely kicking along dandy. European bikes retain value much better than Japanese bikes. You will likely get a better deal at the end of the summer than at the beginning. Anything to add, goobster?
According to my bf: -check for even tire wear -condition of all fluids (color of coolant/oil) -check air filter -check brake fluid (you'll need a screw driver) -compression test (they sell 30$ kits) -wear on chain and sprockets (if there's a chain) -drive with no handlebars to check steering -make sure all electrical works by turning all on (don't believe if the seller says that it's just a burned fuse, electrical work is the worst) -ask if cables have been changed on 15 years + bikes (change before you ride if seller did not) -pay attention on scratches on bar ends, foot pegs and fuel tank and exhaust : bike involved in past accidents are a bad sign, especially if the owner tries to hide it from you. -ask when battery was last changed Apart for the compression test, it's all doable without equipment beyond a screw driver. Things may vary for older bikes, different engines etc...
Some of that shit is fucking impossible to get at, though. There's also this idea that you can show up to someone's driveway and do a compression test and it's just fucking laughable. You're basically asking a stranger to sit in his driveway with a trunk full of tools for two hours because - wait for it - you don't trust them. - Even tire wear: it's either "even" or the bike went sideways. A bike with lopsided tire wear is an unridable bike and you'll determine that quickly. All you can really check is if he spent any time on the sidewalls. In some cases you'd rather have uneven wear (look up "chicken strips motorcycle" if you don't believe me). - Condition of fluids: take it for a ride. If the brakes are spongy, then you know the brakes are spongy. If you know the oil is black you know the oil is more than 500 miles old. THAT'S IT. Listen: I've got $1500 worth of brand-new Brembo on the Benelli. New RCS masters, new pads, new stainless lines, new DOT4 fluid, new $150 each Rizoma reservoirs, new hoses. In the time since I put all that on it's been ridden 500 miles... and sat under a cover outside for six months. Know what? The fluid turned brown. Your boyfriend would actually mark me DOWN for that. More than that, I've made it easier for him to do so 'cuz my reservoirs are useful: But how brown is too brown? What color makes you happy? What color makes you sad? 'cuz DOT3 and DOT4 are different colors. Fuck - if it's got new brake fluid that means the dude just replaced the fluid... perhaps to hide the fact that the pistons are leaking. - Check air filter: On my KLR you'd need an hour to get to the air filter. On the Benelli, even if you promised to do it, even if you promised to give me a thousand dollar deposit, I'd tell you to fuck right off and get out of my driveway. To get to the air filter you need to remove the seat, the tank, the side fairings, loosen the handlebars, remove the carb horns, and then get out the special ball-end long Allen extension I had to order from Amazon and then get it all back together again and that involves placing tension in just the right place and not stripping out some of the mounts. - compression test: I've never owned a bike that I could get to the spark plugs in less than an hour. And like I'm going to let you, you monkey, anywhere near my aluminum head and iridium spark plugs. And like you'll learn anything about a single unless you own the shop manual, and like you'll get consistent results having never worked on my bike before in your life. Backintheday you could do a compression test to learn something about a big stupid American V-8 and it still took an hour on like a '66 mustang where everything is out and visible like Slim Fucking Goodbody. -wear on chain and sprockets (if there's a chain): What does that even mean? Check the tension? Do you know what the tension is supposed to be? The KLR was built like an AK-47 and needed to be sloppy as fuck. On the Benelli, the difference between 15mm slack and 13mm slack is "won't shift" and "slips out of gear." Measured where? Well, not where the shop manual says. The shop manual, by the way, gives you an integer, not a range. So good luck with that. -drive with no handlebars to check steering Agreed. But then, if you've never ridden one before you'll have no idea what you're looking for and minor shit won't show up this way, just a bike that's been hammered to shit. I fixed a friend's bike that had been in an accident bad enough that we needed to change out the forks and triple tree and even with a bent center tube it rode like a dream. This is a collision bad enough to invoke a pickup and four guys to get it out of there. -make sure all electrical works by turning all on (don't believe if the seller says that it's just a burned fuse, electrical work is the worst): Apparently your boyfriend has never done valve work. Or brake work. Or clutch work. But yes. make sure the turn signals work. That's not usually the stuff that goes south, but sure. -ask if cables have been changed on 15 years + bikes (change before you ride if seller did not) My KLR ate clutch cables every 5,000 miles and never did a thing to the throttle. The Benelli ate a clutch cable at 8,000 miles and it was such a bear to deal with that I swapped it out for hydraulic. Cables go, cables don't, and it has nothing to do with age. -pay attention on scratches on bar ends, foot pegs and fuel tank and exhaust : bike involved in past accidents are a bad sign, especially if the owner tries to hide it from you.: They won't though. They've ridden motorcycles, you haven't. Either they'll repair the damage or they won't. if they do, you'll never know. 80% of new motorcycles are dropped within the first 6 weeks and you know what? Most of the time it's fine. Me and that KLR went over 3 times at speed and you wouldn't know 'cuz it was nerfed out like crazy. Me and that Benelli went over once at speed and $1500 in parts later it was as good as new (and that's with crash bobbins). -ask when battery was last changed: Like the answer will mean something. Either it will start or it won't. If it won't, pay less. If it will, expect to put in a new battery within the next year or so anyway because lead acid motorcycle batteries suck. Lithiums barely cost more, weigh 20% and give you twice the CCA. Apart for the compression test, it's all doable without equipment beyond a screw driver. And this is just utterly preposterous. I've got a $200 torque wrench for the Benelli and I wish I had it when I had a KLR. I needed to make wrenches to make it easier to get to the spark plug on the KLR. Usually when you show up to buy a used bike they ask for payment in full, let you take it for a ride, and then if you don't like it, give you your money back. Anyone willing to put up with your boyfriend's list is selling the thing for so much over market value that he'll put up with a bottomless list of indignity. Me? Fuck right off. I gave 8 people test rides on the KLR before it sold. Which means the hypothetical dude with the wrench? He's got 7 other guys who are less dickish about it and I'm happy to sell to them over him.
He mostly buys old crappy stuff so it's pretty much a visual inspection to check if the bike was taken care of by the owner. Old oil, scratches, dirty filter (if accessible) are just generally a bad sign. Also, if too many things (battery, cables,headlight...) have to be replaced on a 500$ POS, you're probably better off looking for something in slightly better condition. As for the advice, I think I just mis-represented what he said cause I don't really know shit about bikes. The first thing he said when I asked is that there really is no general advice because all bikes are made so differently. And I think your experiences in bikes are vaastly different (As in, he mostly ever owned the older stuff. Filter visible on the outside, spark plugs accessible in 5 minutes. So I think different things come to mind when thinking of a "typical" bike). I guess I'll just shut up about the subject because this is just an argument through the broken telephone of my lack of mechanical knowledge. Ooops. Just asked him and he said he'll take electrical problems any time over re-doing a clutch so that part was just me typing shit wrong.
;-) No harm no foul. It's entirely possible he buys bikes that I would dismiss out of hand because when they're that old, they're either (A) abandoned barn finds or (B) maintained by proud owners whose outsized sense of value over their possessions makes them utterly pointless to negotiate with. My general experience is that if it's old and shitty enough that you can get to the plugs easily, and it isn't being driven daily, the carbs are so full of schmutz and crud that the sucka will never run right. The optimal envelope for a slide-valve carb is so narrow that when you get it out of optimal even a tiny little bit you have a bad time - I improved the fuel economy of the KLR by 10MPG just by tightening the needle valve an eighth of a turn.
Yeah, the cost of owning/having the right to ride here adds up to about 1k/year with only half the year where you can legally ride without snow tires :( not much left for the motorcycle after that. And the better the bike, more expensive it gets. Plating only is 1300$/year if you have more than 400cc! Plus, having done moto mechanic school he finds pretty good deals where he replaces basic cables and the battery or I don't know what he does but never resells at a loss a couple seasons down the line.
My main method of transport is sitting at the back of my boyfriends bike :) I can ask him for tips if you want, but things like prices and availability are different in Canada. As an example, old BMW are a pain to own here since it was never sold here and parts are rare. What kind of advice are you looking for? Could help out on the technical/maintenance aspect for sure! Do you know if you want to go sport/chopper/cafe racer/whatever yet? He has an 84 Yamaha maxim he bought last year for 500$ cad right now but he's been talking about getting a new bike lately... He's owned 3 in the past 3 years and I don't think it will ever stop :)
I do love the look of naked bikes. Some of the older Honda CB's are pretty nice. My girlfriend's father has a gorgeous Thruxton 900 that I'd love to ride someday... The restrictions on learner riders in Australia are pretty heavy now though, so a lot of the bikes that I like the look of are out of the question until I've held a license for three years. How are you finding the traffic in SE Asia? I was terrified riding around in Indonesia. I guess you get used to it pretty quickly though.
Naked bikes are my faves! Sports just dont look as good with a bunch of plastic all around!!! We only rented a scooter in Chiang Mai, which was pretty relaxed trafic-wise. Don't think I would do it in a big city like Bangkok (or any city in cambodia, it's next level choas compared to Thailand here). But i trust my boyfriend about this, he's had a moto for 10 past years and drivers in MTL suck. Dont think we ever passed 40km/h here anyway. I've been more scared back home going 100 and seeing someone changing lanes in front while we're in the blind spot... However, a bro-looking guy got into an accident at the hostel the other day and is pretty scraped up. But these news from the same dudes that got mugged and beaten by locals multiple times (how!?) Intheir 2 week vacation makes me doubt they were careful riding the scooters. Good luck with the license, I think its going to be worth it in the end. And, if it's the direction the government s going in, it's only going to get harder/more expensive with time.
People who get mugged and beaten by locals multiple times within two weeks sound like they're looking for trouble... Thanks for wishing me luck. I can't wait! And you're right. I think it's only going to become more difficult to ride in the future!