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comment by _refugee_
_refugee_  ·  3606 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Pubski: January 7, 2015

Actually, if you read carefully, you'd realize I said subreddit drama didn't d0 it 4 me, but apparently I cant expect u 2 even do tht.





user-inactivated  ·  3606 days ago  ·  link  ·  

_refugee_  ·  3606 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Yes, I would advise you to ignore me - or respond cogently to my arguments - but the former looks more favorable for you, it's really the only way you're going to look like you may have come out on top.

Cheers!

user-inactivated  ·  3606 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Fuck it, I'm taking it: Why are you being a prick? I'm usually the prick in these types of situations. The only thing I can think of is because I said "ynno." Is that it? I'm kinda lost. If this is a win/lose the argument thing, sure, you win. I just don't get why. Honestly. I'm not even being sarcastic or anything, I really do want to know. Was it something I did? And on an unrelated note: do you like cottage cheese? If so, what do you put on it when you run out of pepper? My mouth is feeling sad eating this unseasoned stuff.

Ciao!

_refugee_  ·  3604 days ago  ·  link  ·  

1) Your original comment, which I replied to, was sarcastic/off-put in tone. You sounded offended. You didn't sound as if you truly wanted to have a level conversation about whether or not home schooling can be, absolutely 100% of the time is, or sometimes-but-not-always can be/is detrimental to social development. Which, by the way, to my mind, is an easy conclusion to draw - that home-schooling absolutely can have detrimental effects on youth socialization and in many cases does. I'm aware that some people choose to home-school their children so they can indoctrinate them in their religious dogma, for instance. Even if you were in a "home school" of 50 kids I think this would have a negative impact on socialization (since fringe beliefs are isolating) and it wouldn't be possible in a public school, where even if your teachers AREN'T teaching evolution the simple fact and variety of the classmates around you means you are more likely to be introduced to ideas that challenge the ones your parents have driven into you your whole life. That doesn't mean homeschooling always has a negative impact. That just means it's easy for it to do so.

2) Your next comment, in which you used "ynno." First, not a word. Second, the phrase "you know" is used conversationally when stating the facts, general rules that most or all audiences would understand; hence, "they know" to what is referred. It is an expression of general social awareness. What you're stating doesn't qualify. Which leads me to my third point: because you weren't stating a general "rule of thumb" fact that, indeed, "everyone would know," the use of that phrase further compounded your tone of being offended, sarcastic, and not being interested in a level discussion. Someone who thought I was wrong and was interested in actually having a conversation with me about it, possibly to even convince me of my misaligned viewpoint, might say something like "What about recreational activities outside of school?" or etc. It wouldn't state that the presence of or participation in extra-education was obvious; clearly, from my comment, I either wasn't aware or wasn't considering these options. If I were your conversational partner in this discussion the best move would have been to say, "Well what about these options?" in which case we could have moved on to discussing the prevalence of these options and how they compare to, ynno, daily interaction with hundreds of your peers for 8 or so hours a day.

3) I edit my comments, get over it. I usually do so quickly after the fact and completely understand when someone has failed to catch the edit and doesn't respond to it, in which case I direct them to it.

4) My edit does not imply this is a sensitive topic - for me. The way you handled the entire discussion reveals it is a sensitive topic for you. One which you are not able to have without provoking your conversational partner because you don't like what they have to say.

5) I reiterate that interest groups which a person pursues out of choice, or to say, "opt-in groups," do not provide the same socialization as groups into which a person is simply thrown and then, once within the human mass, must learn how to deal: how to find people with similar interests, personalities, etc; how to interact with people without similar interests or with whom one does not get along; how to observe how others in both situations interact; how to interact with others that are perceptibly different from you (race, religion, lifestyle choices such as diet, political choices, etc); as well as what it's like to try new experiences, sign up for clubs because your friends are signing up for them, in general be exposed to new interests, and so on. I never would have participated in Track and Field if one of my friends hadn't persuaded me to in 10th grade. I don't imagine that a friend in an extracurricular club would have tried to convince me to join another, different club which, by the way, would also conflict with the first club's meeting schedule.

6) I don't care if you get buttmad, I care if you go around saying stupid, inciting shit, and then acting as if you're not responsible for it when people respond negatively. This is in my opinion one of the rudest exchanges I've seen on Hubski, specifically, your first two comments in this thread, and when I saw "one of the rudest exchanges" keep in mind that I have called out several users in a manner not dissimilar to the manner in which I have called you out. Altercation is no stranger to me.

Never, in any universe, does a person who says "Do tell" mean "Please repeat exactly what you just said to me because by god I'm responding to that comment but apparently I just can't read it!" It is insulting to waste the opportunity you were given to make and defend your point of view via some sort of discussion by acting like b_b didn't even know the contents of the comment he replied to. And then you want to know why he didn't treat you as an equal! He didn't treat you like an equal because you were conversing like a child.

It literally matters not a whit to me if you react emotionally to a single thing I say. It matters to me that I enjoy the discussion here, both those I read and those I participate in. When I see you or anyone else actively shitting on the quality of discussion, Imma step up. That's what this is about.

7) This is not a win/lose thing, see above.

I hope this helped you but I doubt this did anything but irritate, anger, and/or upset you. If that's the case, why don't you take a second to consider the time and thought I've put into crafting this reply, and indeed many replies to you, and then weigh it against every one-liner or even one-word response you've thrown out on Hubski. Newsflash? "Mmmhmm" does not qualify as "thoughtful discussion." It counts as "worthless throw-in hoping that someone else asks me to elaborate on why I thought "mmhmm" was an appropriate response to a post, because clearly if I didn't need someone to act like they were interested in my opinion, I would have just stated it."

So why don't you take a few hours to sleep on what I have to say before you jerk off with a hastily-written, aggrieved response. Aren't you the one who did research on what online community they wanted to join and settled on Hubski of all options? You must've had a reason to join Hubski, and for chrissakes I hope it was more than hoping to leech off of our pseudo-intellectual discussions without even trying to care about whether all your comments are shitposts.

Try giving back to this community you so carefully selected. Try some long, thought-out, balanced, assuming-the-other-person-is-unaware-not-unintelligent interaction. Because that's the one protip I have for you: If you want to actually have a two-sided discussion about something, or if you want to change someone's mind, don't assume they're wrong. Assume they don't know what you do. Half the time that'll work and half the time they'll reveal that they do know and don't care, in which case there's no point in trying to make them. And you won't piss your conversational partner or your audience off while you're at it.

______________________

I don't eat cottage cheese, so I can't help you there, but I do appreciate the attempt to get the conversation back to a less adversarial place. (Not sarcastic.)

user-inactivated  ·  3604 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Leaving aside my opinions here for a sec, how am I supposed to respond to this? I can't sleep on it, to be sure. I just woke up. I'm a little scared to respond, to tell you the truth. Might as well speak from the heart, I guess?

First off, all of this was good advice. I mean it, it really was. I'm taking this to heart for the next discussion I have on here. Thank you for that. Nobody wants to read about that, though, so let's get to another thing you can crucify me for!

You make me mad. You make me mad in such a way that I can't see how it could be accidental. "if I didn't need someone to act like they were interested in my opinion, I would have just stated it." That's not advice. That's not telling it like it is. It's just being mean. You've caught me in this trap before I give a reply. "before you jerk off with a hastily-written, aggrieved response." Uh-huh, cross that one off your list. "I hope this helped you but I doubt this did anything but irritate, anger, and/or upset you." Sure, this helped me. Never, in any universe would a person hearing this remain calm.

You've expertly chosen ways to figure out how to say "inciting shit" while feeling good about sticking it to Dipstick Mcchucklefuck over here. Me? I feel like shit. You've gotten that part down well enough. But then again, it "matters not a whit" to you how I feel. And coming towards the end, I'm thinking I shouldn't have tried to respond. Whatever will come after this will no-doubt be yet another biting 8-paragraph essay that will obviously hit every button I possess, and include many more quotable sentences.

I can sum it up with this: Thank you, but also fuck off a little bit. I'll improve myself, but I'm not going to bother with including this message.

_refugee_  ·  3604 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    "if I didn't need someone to act like they were interested in my opinion, I would have just stated it." That's not advice. That's not telling it like it is. It's just being mean.

This seems to me like a difference of opinion.

I spend a lot of time looking at sentences and writing and trying to get rid of every extraneous word. I also spend a lot of time thinking about why someone might say something, and about how things are said in order to elicit certain responses.

To me, with what may be an absurdly reductionist or detail-oriented interpretation, (I admit these things) there is no purpose to the use of filler words/expressions such as "Mmhmm," "Oh?", and so on in text conversation. I find that when a comment comprises only of filler or reactionary words or phrases without additional context, invariably, anyone who wishes to carry on a conversation is forced to ask the person who made the comment what they mean, or to elaborate, or so on. It's not even possible to tell, for example, whether "Mmhmm" is a negative or positive response. The conversation literally cannot continue in a logical (i.e., not non sequitor) manner in any other way but to ask the "mmhmm"-er to speak more. That is because with an empty comment like that, you give everyone else in the conversation nothing to go on or respond to.

So in my sights, no, I wasn't being mean or taking pot shots at you with that statement. I acknowledge fully that you may not have done this (made a filler comment to elicit questioning) deliberately. However, that's the impact of your action. I believe a lot of conversation and, generally, in-person interactions, are driven by subconscious, reptile-brain motivations that we aren't necessarily aware of.

For instance, I believe that audibly expressing pain becomes more about gaining attention than letting out hurt via verbal expression as the scale of the injury becomes more minor. In other words, if you yelp after a paper cut, you're not doing it because it hurts but because you want someone to feel bad with you. If you yelp when you fall off a deck and break your arm, you're doing it because it hurts - but, admit, there's an evolutionary advantage to letting your packmates know you're injured.

So yeah, I 100% believe that filler comments are more about drawing attention to oneself than contributing to the conversation. If you see that as me being mean, fine, but I assure you: it's nothing personal.

___

As for whether or not you respond hastily to comments, I drew a conclusion based on my interactions with you, which is that you do indeed respond quickly, from the gut, to (my) posts.

___

And as for whether my comment would do anything but upset you, I figure that is a natural reaction of anyone who is somewhat emotionally invested in a conversation and who feels attacked. It is natural to feel attacked when someone, a virtual stranger, picks apart your behavior. disagrees with you on general/potentially 'major' discussion topics, and in general doesn't try to be nice or mince words. You yourself state no one could read that comment and remain calm. I can't imagine that me, remarking on the ability of my own comment to irritate - acknowledging, in other words, that I understand and get that you may be pissed off - is the bulk of what elicited you feeling pissed off.

I anticipated you would be unhappy because I have had these conversations before and I have seen these conversations before. I understand how people react when other people call them out on shit. I've been that person called out as well as this person right here. I have gotten so mad at people on Hubski that I have had to walk away from digital media because otherwise I wouldn't be able to resist blowing up on them. When people don't get along, they make each other mad.

___

Frankly, I appreciate the time & effort you put into your response.

I get that I make you mad. It might happen again. I do believe we're also capable of having conversations where we agree and even see eye-to-eye. There are people I vehemently disagree with on many things on this website that occasionally I find myself nodding to (much to my chagrin!) when I read their comments.

All I want is a mutual willingness to agree and acknowledge that we agree with each other, should that ever happen.

This happened, this wasn't fun, no one liked this. That doesn't mean that we're enemies. It doesn't even mean we're that different. I make you mad, I'm sure you can conclude that you've made me mad. Mad is not, or does not have to be a permanent state. We can mostly mutually dislike each other, even, and that's fine.

But I want you to know that I'm not making a permanent judgment about who you are and how I feel about you based on one or two unflattering conversation threads. People argue, and people communicate poorly, and those 2 things can create shitstorms and strong feelings but they certainly don't encapsulate the "who" a person is.

I've been where you are, getting smacked down on the internet by a jerk or perceived jerk. I know there's more to who you are than this interaction. It feels personal - I know - but it's not. I don't know you.

Someday on Hubski some topic is going to come up and we're going to find out we agree with each other completely about it. It'll be weird and maybe one or the other one of us won't want to, but if we are honest, we will find something we share. On that day, I will just begin to know you.

______________

WOOOO I GOT REALLY LONG AND PHILOSOPHICAL AND RAMBLY AND I THINK I LOST MY POINT AT THE END. I PROMISE THERE'S A POINT BUT I LOST MY WORDS. SORRY.

user-inactivated  ·  3603 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Look, I just got back from finals. I did really well. I'm too happy to have a debate right now. I'm not a well-spoken person, but thank you for this explanation. This is the first post that I didn't feel angry reading. Er, I don't know how to make this into a productive post, but I wanted to say that I'm sorry. I still don't agree with all that you're saying here, but I'm sorry for being a dick about it.

swedishbadgergirl  ·  3606 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Maybe because you're taking this very seriously and being very defensive. What I meant was that I was kind of a bitch before 8/9 grade and I think I still would be if I could always choose who I hang out with.

But I went to the emergency room tonight and the doctor was pretty sure I had rheumatoid arthritis so I might join the tiny pack of Swedish home-schoolers soon if things don't get better.

Like I'm 16 and almost ALL my joints hurt.

Also, with jam. Cottage cheese and strawberry jam is nice.