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comment by bioemerl
bioemerl  ·  3481 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: BeyoncĂ©, Feminism & The Male Gaze

I absolutely hate that term "the male gaze". The fact it is used is the sort of thing that leaves a bad aftertaste.

Honestly, why does the term exist in the first place? It's no shorter, no more descriptive than saying "for men". Beyonce doesn't perform for men.

And the fact that it's referred to with "the". Like "the male gaze" is some higher entity or something of that sort. Really? Do we need a singular, nearly proper noun to refer to the fact that people will stare at things they like? Should we start talking about if male actors are performing for "the female gaze"? Or, should we refer to art as attracting "the human gaze"?

It's just people trying to sound official by making up terms for things that don't exist, honestly. Pseudo-academics.





Panopticon  ·  3481 days ago  ·  link  ·  

It has specific connotations which "for men" doesn't (sexualisation, objectification etc)

ironpotato  ·  3481 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't understand why looking at someone is such an offense. So what if I see someone attractive I take notice? Girls do it too. Why is it just a male thing? It's not like I stand there with my mouth agape and fantasize about them nude the instant I see someone.

The whole feminism thing gets old fast. I'm fine with women having equal rights and equal paychecks. But let's stop making normal human reactions into offenses that only men are the violators of.

Also, I don't know if Emma Watson has looked at her google image results, but some of the top pictures are extremely sexualized. Why is she an authority on appropriate fame conduct?

MilitantNegro  ·  3480 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Looking at people isn't the problem here and is a massive oversimplification of the issue. Feminist objection to objectification isn't because looking at a person and finding them attractive is bad. We all try to look our best and look attractive.

The issue is when a value system is built around the way you look. This is most stark in the music industry where in some cases aesthetics trumps actual musical ability. The music may be for the teenage girls, but the look is for men, even when aimed at those teenage girls because they too grow up in a society that places value on female sexuality. They are more likely to respond favourably to a woman who appeals to men because they are taught to admire those qualities and strive for them.

Now that's all well and good if you look like Beyonce, but what about the hundreds of millions of people who don't? When you say it's okay to make value judgements on how sexually attractive a woman is you say it's okay to dismiss a less attractive woman's talents in many fields.

The elephant in the room is that this value judgement is reserved for women. Men simply don't have the same pressures to be visually appealing in a host of seemingly unrelated fields.

Whether it be racism, sexism or homophobia people should not be places at a disadvantage due a physical or social attribute you find attractive or unattractive.

bioemerl  ·  3481 days ago  ·  link  ·  

No it doesn't.

In an article talking about how a girl is stripping isn't to appeal to men, I see no difference between the two.

Hell, in general, I don't see the difference. "attracting the attention of men" and "attracting the male gaze" are the exact same sentences with the exact same connotations.

I see nowhere that the meanings are different. Context provides everything that the phrase does. Without the bullshit.

MilitantNegro  ·  3480 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    It's no shorter, no more descriptive than saying "for men". Beyonce doesn't perform for men.

Which is why the term "male gaze" is appropriate. It distinguishes that which is done expressly for men, which you recognise Beyonce's music is not, and the aesthetic that is certainly done for men's benefit, or the male gaze.

Men are not at Beyonce concerts in large numbers, but the sexuality is that which everyone present recognises as that which appeals to men. It panders to a world where attractiveness to men is valuable.

bioemerl  ·  3480 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Which is why the term "male gaze" is appropriate. It distinguishes that which is done expressly for men,

Which can also easily be described with the phrase "for men" A more common, shorter, and easier phrase to use.

    but the sexuality is that which everyone present recognises as that which appeals to men. It panders to a world where attractiveness to men is valuable.

And that is exactly why the term male gaze is absolutely stupid and not needed. It's obvious and normal that people use sex to attract attention to themselves or to a brand. It's not some obscene or strange thing that needs a nearly-proper noun reference.