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comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  1633 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: What If We Really Are Alone in the Universe?

Before there was Seveneves there was Lucifer's Hammer and before there was Lucifer's Hammer there was Rendezvous with Rama and before there was Rendezvous with Rama there was When Worlds Collide and really if you go back to the dawn of astronomy it's always about "the universe is just far more malicious to life than we thought." It's kind of like the whole "what if AI is evil" trope - I mean, fuckoff with that shit the first use of artificial intelligence was in RUR which was not only the first book about robots, it was literally about a robot uprising.

Your discussion is literally FsubC ("the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space") and L ("the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space") in the Drake Equation, the veracity of which is handled eloquently in this xkcd comic.

It's not entirely fair to pick on the Drake Equation as being six stacked bullshit factors we cannot begin to approximate. At the time he wrote it, those bullshit factors were complete unknowns and the intervening decades have not done much to fill in the blanks. We've got an n of one here - exactly one inhabited planet capable of transmitting into the void. But if we look at that n's historical record:

- Ordovician extinction, 439m years ago

- Devonian extinction, 364m years ago

- Permian extinction, 251m years ago

- Triassic extinction, 200m years ago

- K-T extinction, 61m years ago

That's an average of one extinction-level event every 94 million years. That's fifteen times as long as it took us to go from "walking erect" to "arguing about the Drake equation on the Internet." Fuckin' the discovery of radio waves is new enough that we have footage of their discoverer:

So. Presume that Earth is an outlier with radically infrequent bombardment. How radical?

Lascaux is probably less than 20,000 years old. So. From cave paintings to 4chan in 20,000 years. Leave everything else the same - don't give anyone a faster metabolism, don't give anyone better or worse socialization, don't give anyone any advantage or disadvantage beyond what we're looking at, and that 20,000 year period happens 4700 times, on average, between every extinction.

Is the center of the galaxy 4700 times more hostile than the limbs? I'd think we'd see astronomical evidence of that.





goobster  ·  1633 days ago  ·  link  ·  

From cave paintings to 4chan in 20k years... that's an excellent way to look at it, and makes it easier to wrap your mind around the timelines it can take a civilization to get from milestone to milestone.

It's hard to conceive of the times and distances we are talking about here. Having a practical timeframe to think of, at least gives you a handhold to grab on to, as you slide down the infinite mountain of numbers...

And ooli makes a good point about intelligence. I know the Drake Equation has thought of that, but breaking it down into layman-understandable pieces is a valuable exercise for me.

ooli  ·  1633 days ago  ·  link  ·  

On the other hand, Arthropods in 500m years never managed to create 4chan

Dinosaur in their 40m years span didn't get a radio wave out

Mammal in 200m years only managed to get some primate out, 100m years ago, any extinction event in that time frame, and Adios 4chan, Telescope, and bipedal walk

Not only the step from life to multi-cellular life took 4 billions years (1/4 of the universe life). But even after that the progression to intelligence life was long: In all the species around in the past 500m years, intelligence is a fluke.. we're still waiting for its 2nd coming. And Dolphins are more dumb than they look

kleinbl00  ·  1633 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Very true. However, that's FsubI, a different coefficient.