Since I've finally seen it, we can talk about it now (obligatory /s).
I'm in the "generally liked it" camp, and haven't seen much in the way of criticism that has persuaded me otherwise (which is not to say it's impossible).
Most of the stuff that I found clunky I actually attribute to how much The Force Awakens sucked, which really hurt TLJ's ability to build on a story. They had to put some patches on the foundation, and what they were trying to do. For example, why is the rebellion still a rebellion after the original trilogy? TFA kind of hand-waived that, and now suddenly the First Order is the powerful faction again?
There's an interesting meta element to the movie: for all the flak that TFA (rightly) got for being an almost shot-for-shot remake of A New Hope, TLJ seemed to go out of its way to go in a completely different direction. I generally liked that. In particular:
1. I liked the send up of the "lone hero does everything" trope
2. I liked that Rey's parents were not special (I was dreading for like half the movie that she'd be Ren's sister)
3. The way they played with the idea of legendary people (especially with Luke) was cool
4. Related to this, the way the codebreaker played out (both in it not being the person they were directed to and the moral ambiguity in his outlook)
Things I didn't like:
1. It can't quite decide in places what it wants to be about. For example, Ren saying that they should do away with the First Order, and the Jedi, and the Rebellion.....and he and Rey should rule. It was a cool moment up until that part. The "legends aren't all they're cracked up to be" thing kind of gets thrown away at the end, too
2. The dead weight of TFA encumbering the whole thing
3. Felt rushed, there was a lot that wasn't explained in a way that should be. E.g. who was Snoke? How did Kylo Ren turn?
SUPER LEIA!!!! The move was far too long. IF they had managed to drop the run time to 90 minutes, trim some of the fluff, ie the sidequest to the casino, I think it would have been better. To your point 2, yes I am so glad that Rey is a nobody. I was frightened that she was going to be a Skywalker. 4. The Codebreaker was a nice touch, but I think he was a bit wasted. In the old days, they did serial movies where there would be a chapter a month or so. This was a way to get people out to the theaters, tell a complex story if they wanted, and compete with television. There is such a deep set of Star Wars lore that they could make 90 minute movies and release them quarterly. This brings people to the theaters, making the theaters happy. They make money, making the studios happy. And the fans get better content. Hell, make the mid-year movies a way to get up and coming directors a shot at making a name for themselves and Disney can build a massive talent pool. Snoke was a waste of a character. The First Order is a waste of a good idea. And still the movie was too long.
I liked the casino side-quest once they got there. Set us up for the ending scene which made a great ending imo. Could have maybe been 15 minutes shorter, but I was not bored once. Expected the scummy codebreaker to be the actual codebreaker, take off his jacket afterwards and have a tatty flower on his lapel after all. Wasting Snoke was unexpected and brilliant imo. Agree that Leia was wonderful. Kept trying to see if they cgi'ed her face anywhere and could not detect it. Wonder what they'll do in the next film, cgi her altogether? I'm betting she has a minimal role in the next film so we're not too distracted with feeling creeped out that that's not really Carrie.
The problem with the Casino side quest is that it never went anywhere in terms of moving the story. The only thing it did was to bring Finn and Rose together, but you could do that a lot of ways that don't involve a huge side story. Their gambit failed, and a lot of people died. Of course, they could make it meaningful depending what they do in ep 9. E.g. Benicio del Toro could be the new Lando, or the kids they inspired could do something important. If they don't do something that brings relevance to that 30 minutes of screen time, I'll be vastly disappointed.
I'm convinced that the kid is going to have his own spin off movie in the next decade and introducing the character is the only reason they shat out the needless casino story line. I thought it was a good movie for the kind of movie it was but I would have liked it A LOT more if the casino story line had been dropped and if the imperial guardsmen hadn't bopped around and assumed Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle poses.
Ha! Just got back from seeing it and checked Hubski first thing, wanting to talk about it, and here's your thread. Thanks johnnyFive! I clapped after this film. I loved it. Right now I think it's the best of the 9. I need to let it sit a few days to be sure. So much worked wonderfully in this film. I really didn't like 8 much because it was just a remake of 4. But in this one they built lots of connections to Empire Strikes Back without it feeling like they were copying anything. For example, it started with a Rebel evacuation, but the bomber sequence was new and awesome. It had walkers attacking a base with underarmored rebel ground ships attacking back, but at the end of the film with a fresh feel and oh those beautiful lines in the sand! The whole "lifting rocks" was wonderful. Flashbacks to the Weird Al song "Yoda". (So, I used the Force I picked up a box. I lifted some rocks) Kylo killing Snopes was so unexpected -- Snopes was just developing as a very interesting villian and then SLICE! And then I expected Ren and Rey to join forces and NO! I was reeling! But are Rey's parents nobodies? I don't think so. In Star Wars extended universe Han and Leia have twins. One of them goes to the dark side. And Rey in this film sits in the turret of the Falcon and makes the exact same kind of comment Luke made when he was in the turret for the first time. I think Rey is somehow a Skywalker. But how? She couldn't be Leia's daughter or they both would have known when the met, dontcha think? I still think somehow she and Ren are brother/sister. Loved how the entire rebellion is reduced to a crew that fits on the Falcon. What a devastation! Finally, loved the ending with little kid using the force and holding a broom like a light saber. So good!
I also agree that Kylo was lying to Rey when he said her parents were nobodies. It doesn't add up, and the way he played it it looked like he was lying. My main hope is that Rian Johnson wasn't just drawing the head of a body that JJ Abrams started, that there's cohesion to the story to be revealed in ep 9. I have a theory about what Kylo was getting at when he dreamed of smashing the New Order and the resistance, and starting a co-thrown with Rey, although it's a bit of a stretch and it requires going way back in time. Consider that Yoda was looking for the person who was prophesied to restore balance to the Force. He saw in Anakin that potential person. Anakin goes dark, and Luke is now the hope to restore balance. However, it's actually Vader (Anakin) who kills the Emperor, so he was the chosen one after all, right? Maybe. Fast forward to The Last Jedi. Luke's training of Rey focuses completely on balance: day/night, life/death, light side/dark side, etc. And Rey sees and almost embraces the dark side, even though we don't get the feeling she wants to be evil. Perhaps the message is that the Jedi, by only focusing on the light side of the Force, aren't actually encouraging balance. The light invites the dark, so that as long as their are Jedi, there will always be Sith, and vice versa. So here's where Kylo comes back. He recognizes this problem with the Jedi/Sith duality, and seeks to move past it. He isn't totally evil like Darth Sidious and his ilk, and obviously isn't all good like Yoda's trainees. He may be more dark than light, and Rey is more light than dark, but they're both a mix. He thinks that together, they can actually bring true balance back to the Force, and rule as benevolent despots. This theory is a stretch, but it sort of explains why the peace that the rebellion secured in Return of the Jedi was so short lived (because it couldn't have been more than like 10-15 years based on how built up the New Order is by now, 30 years on). The Jedi were ascendant again, so of course the Sith were going to rise up; the Force almost guarantees this. Both must be killed to kill either. Perhaps Yoda's prophesy has yet to be fulfilled, and Kylo and Rey are the 'true' restorer's of balance. (I put 'true' in quotes, because obviously Disney is never going to let the saga be finished.) I have a lot of other thoughts, but that's the only partially original one.
This is one of the cases in the movie where it had a good idea, but lacked the courage to actually go through with it. Kylo started to get into this...then retreated back to the usual mustache-twirling evil villains that have been the movies' bread and butter.So here's where Kylo comes back. He recognizes this problem with the Jedi/Sith duality, and seeks to move past it.
That's sort of an existential problem for Star Wars though. In the end, Star Wars is supposed to be fun more than anything. It's not a philosophical journey by nature, even though us fanboys elevate it to that sometimes. Trying to play with good and evil instead of just accepting them was a bridge too far for Disney, probably. One thing that hasn't been mentioned here that was a wild departure from Star Wars tradition was the nature of the Force. Apparently, the Force is whatever you want it to be now. I'm actually ok with that. Palpatine alluded to a great Sith lord that conquered death once upon a time (who I think lots of people thought may have been Snoke), so obviously there's more to the Force than we've actually been shown in the movies until now. I think Rian Johnson recognized that and decided to have fun with it. On the other hand it took Luke tons of practice to just pick up a goddam light sabre and Rey was able to Jedi mind trick someone after someone just mentioning the concept of the Force to her in TFA. Doesn't seem too consistent :(
I really, really hope you're wrong about this. To me, one of the high points of the movie was smashing the idea that you have to be born into power to be worth anything. The previous 7 movies are about two sets of nobility fighting it out, whereas this one started to hint that maybe it's time to move on from this. It was basically populist Star Wars; the whole point was that "legends" were dangerous.But are Rey's parents nobodies? I don't think so.