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comment by thenewgreen
thenewgreen  ·  258 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Trump - Will it be awful? Will it be successful? What are your predictions?

    May the bulk of the harm be done to the people who voted for him.
The irony is that they will all believe that it was someone else that bestowed it upon them. I was talking with insomniasexx tonight and we both agreed that the lengths that his supporters will go to in order to believe that he is infallible is unprecedented. The cognitive dissonance is astounding. I'm a christian that believes in the sanctity of marriage.... Oh, but Donald is born again..



insomniasexx  ·  258 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Trump supporter on my facebook:

    I watched her speech twice, and the bulk of it was pointing out that American movies were including non American born actors, as if that was somehow now in danger, or mattered. Trump isn't even in power yet and people are losing their minds about how he's going to be a racist bigot homophobe xenophobic insert your own phobe. It's ridiculous. And what does that even mean? Yes, it's fear based. That's all fear based. Fuck trying to scare people.

2 posts later...

This is like cognitive dissonance on crack. This is like...I don't know what it is. Pure and utter stupidity. Pure and utter belief in any narrative that spins their way regardless of how ironic it makes them or how fake it is? I simply cannot understand how and why people go to the lengths they go to to defend his actions, excuse his actions, or place the blame elsewhere. If it were anyone else, they wouldn't. Even if it were a republican, they wouldn't. What the fuck does he do that makes otherwise judgmental people who hold people to the highest standards not give a single fuck because it's Trump?

sidenote: my favorite conversation about cognitive dissonance is from the below....specifically this quote:

    Anyone who thinks that being fisted and called a bitch is empowering has gone through some mental gymnastics to get there.

kleinbl00  ·  257 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    This is like cognitive dissonance on crack. This is like...I don't know what it is. Pure and utter stupidity. Pure and utter belief in any narrative that spins their way regardless of how ironic it makes them or how fake it is?

The best explanation I've ever seen of cognitive dissonance is in Dan Pink's Drive. He makes the point that climate skeptics and vaccine skeptics are similar but on opposite sides of the political spectrum, and that considering both allows you to recognize that cognitive dissonance is not specifically affiliated with any political mentality, but is decidedly political. The mechanism is pretty simple:

1) You align with a group of people. This always involves aligning against a group of people.

2) You subscribe to the ideas your tribe subscribes to. This always involves aligning against the ideas your tribe eschews.

3) Facts and science call your ideas into question. This always involves calling your tribe into question.

Vaccine skeptics don't just think vaccines cause childhood illness. They also buy organic, consume homeopathic remedies, avoid electromagnetic radiation, cloth-diaper their children, buy Priuses, read mothering.com, use cloth grocery bags, etc. And mentally, when vaccine skepticism is under attack their tribe is under attack. It's not just vaccines, it's the whole shopping-at-whole-foods constellation of green granola goodness being assaulted and they identify deeply with that culture. That's not just their impression, either; the science-based blogs that are best at assaulting vaccine skepticism routinely pummel the shit out of every lifestyle choice and marker followed by the granolas, from Gwynneth Paltrow to Tesla (solar is usually bad because it doesn't make room for nuclear, for example).

The result is it's easier to cherry-pick for tiny little morsels of questionable data to prop up the edifice of your belief system than it is to accept an attack on one corner of your psyche.

Because cognitive dissonance can be physically painful. And because it's like Jenga - pull one tile and the whole thing may come crashing down.

A lot of people who should know better back Trump now when during the primaries they wanted anything but. Why? Because he's "Republican." That means he's for small government, fiscal conservatism, state's rights, freedom of religion and all the rest of the shit that he's demonstrably not about because your choice is simple:

accept Trump or reject conservatism.

What you're watching is an entire political party grappling with cognitive dissonance. We're going to observe a country's worth of good, kind human beings discover, slowly and painfully and against their will, that their ideology is toxic. Some of them will never learn and will end up further militarized - there are lots of people that didn't give a fuck about "secret Muslims" until their tribe started baying at the moon. Some of them will bail - I mean, the fact that George F. Will didn't vote Republican is truly something. Some of them will skate on obliviously because they've always been oblivious and now is the time when obliviousness is a viable and efficient defense mechanism.

But all of them are along for the ride.

OftenBen  ·  257 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    We're going to observe a country's worth of good, kind human beings discover, slowly and painfully and against their will, that their ideology is toxic.

Is that the lesson that's going to be learned? I was a fundie, and if there's one thing the fundies do really well, it's shift blame. It's not their fault that their pure, sinless daughter got pregnant, it's those damn liberals giving her the idea that she's allowed to make decisions on her own, this sinful world that made her trip and stumble from the path of the faithful. It's certainly not the fact that nobody ever sat the young woman down and explained to her 'If a boy shoots a load of sperm in you, you can get pregnant.'

kleinbl00  ·  257 days ago  ·  link  ·  

You presume that the people who voted Trump are fundies. I'm not sure that's true any longer. The pentecostals have been taking a lickin' lately and the kids ain't signing up.

OftenBen  ·  257 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I presume that those who vote Republican are fundies to one degree or another.

kleinbl00  ·  257 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I don't think that's a safe assumption.

OftenBen  ·  256 days ago  ·  link  ·  
kleinbl00  ·  256 days ago  ·  link  ·  

sigh

You are arguing that fundamentalists are Republican. I am arguing that not all Republicans are fundamentalists.

This is akin to you pointing out that all dogs are mammals when I argue that not all mammals are dogs.

OftenBen  ·  256 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I am arguing that not all Republicans are fundamentalists.

I accept this as a fact. Not ALL Republicans are fundamentalists.

I'm positing that the republican party, those who vote republican, is mostly composed of dogs, while various other species of mammal actually run the show.

kleinbl00  ·  256 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Dude, argument yesterday:

    You presume that the people who voted Trump are fundies. I'm not sure that's true any longer. The pentecostals have been taking a lickin' lately and the kids ain't signing up.

ButterflyEffect  ·  258 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    What you're calling "elitism" is just simply not being ignorant. We don't have our heads shoved up Jesus's ass. And when the left gets angry because of how fucking dumb some of the shit coming out of rural and red mouths is, we're told we need to understand what they believe. No, we're just gonna say that stupid is stupid.