a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by humanodon
humanodon  ·  4013 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Let's Stop Dismissing Bigots As Trolls

You know, I used to be a really angry guy. It got to the point where instead of surprise or disappointment or even sadness, I would get angry. I also found that I could use anger to fuel things like creativity and productivity. Of course, all of this came at a cost. While most people I interacted with knew that I was a pretty nice guy, sometimes they would tiptoe around me trying to make sure I didn't get mad. This had a marked effect on my relationships.

The point is, repeated actions have a way of becoming automatic. Trolls or people who say horrible shit on the internet because they feel like they can get away with it are training themselves to think that this behavior is acceptable, not only on the internet but in real life, even if they only express these behaviors internally or to select people. I don't believe in policing the internet or forums, but I do think that this article touches on a really serious issue that will only get worse if people stay dismissive about it. The reason labels are so dangerous is that they are dehumanizing. They create a caricature of the behavior that allows people to rationalize away any number of things. I think that at this point, at least in Western civilization, we should all be aware of the fact that as humans we're not good at seeing the big picture and that small things contribute to bigger things.

I too used to troll people, but this was more than 15 years ago. I did it because it made me powerful being able to affect someone I had never met and likely never would meet. Some people branded as trolls really are kids and it's likely that most of them will grow out of it. However, if there is an internet climate where this is increasingly OK and where adults are doing it, then I don't think that's OK, that's a sign of something deeper that needs to be addressed.





_refugee_  ·  4012 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I agree that seemingly negative emotions can be great fuel for creativity. In my off time I write poems and man - when I am angry, I can really rip off a good one! Or when I am disappointed or frustrated. I think feeling angry can also prevent people from feeling other emotions, as you mentioned, and so some people use it (anger) as a sort of shield.

Personally, I don't like feeling like I'm reacting angrily. I have some friends that will get very angry about things, but often it seems to me like a lot of energy that isn't always worth it. Of course, it depends on the situation - there are times when it's completely legitimate to get angry, or at least, a reasonable reaction. (my post about my brother springs to mind.) Haha, I guess it's a toss up. I try not to get angry about things that are completely out of my control. This morning for instance I received a rejection for a poetry submission. That's not worth getting angry or even upset about; I can't control whether other people like what I write or not, and in fact it'd be silly to assume that everyone who read it did!

I think it would be interesting if there is anyone in the crowd that practices meditation or other mindfulness exercises, if they could speak up and talk about anger in their life, I'd be curious to hear about how they process it/deal with it. Unfortunately I don't know, off the top of my head, of anyone on Hubski who does, so I can't call anyone out and ask them.

This, and the end of your post, reminds me of those stories about mothers/parents of middle-to-high school kids that have gotten online and bullied their students' classmates. I have heard of this happening at least once and I think it's a repeated phenomenon. Sadly, if you are a grown adult with children behaving in such a fashion, I don't think you are going to grow out of it. But how do you address such an issue, except when the behavior gets so extreme it's already significantly harmed someone (by the time anything like this gets to the courts, where people can be punished for their 'trolling' or internet bullying, usually someone has already been hurt pretty badly - I'm thinking about the kid(s) who have committed suicide partially as a result of internet bullying here)?

humanodon  ·  4012 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I too would like to know more about mindfulness. I'm not so angry these days. I'm with you on liking the feeling, though I admit that I did for a long time. What I really don't like is being controlled by my emotions. I'm not saying I want to be in rational control of myself at all times, because man, where is the fun in that? But living life by knee-jerk usually makes you, well, a jerk. Basically, instead of being angry, I'm really trying to get a better understanding of what I'm feeling at a given moment and why.

I'm sorry to hear about your rejection. I've been there many times myself. It can be tough though, especially when you see something published that you think is absolute cack, it's even worse when you know the fucker who wrote it and worse still when you know them, have known them for years and thought they were shit then and even more shit now. There's no accounting for taste. Keep trying. Out of curiosity, where did you submit to? It might be that they're looking for a voice in a certain vein for a particular issue or whatever image they're trying to cultivate.

I've heard of the parents bullying thing too. It's sick. I think you're right that people like that won't grow out of that kind of behavior. As for your question, unless there were some kind of internet police, then I have no idea how to address that issue, how to build consequence into the everyday internet. In person at least there's a stigma that can be attached to such a person. Or you could use this. I haven't checked it out if it's for real or not, but I'd like to think it is.

_refugee_  ·  4011 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Oh, yeah, I'm very used to getting rejected :) I try to take it as it comes. I can't control if anyone else is going to like what I write, and invariably, some people won't. I prefer to just count myself lucky if someone DOES like it. The rejection came in from Summerset Review...I use Duotrope, don't know if you're familiar with it, to help find markets to submit to. I did recently get some poems accepted by a journal called Scissors and Spackle and I think they'll be putting them online as well as in print. In June if I'm not mistaken. Anyway if those did end up online I figured I would share them with Hubski then.

Haha! Believe it or not I have heard of that service before :)

humanodon  ·  4011 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Cool! No, I'm not familiar with Duotrope. Is it easy to use? Also, hadn't heard of the Summerset Review. But then again, it doesn't really seem like it's for me, or I'm for it. Anyhow, congrats on the acceptances, I'd be really interested to read them!

_refugee_  ·  4011 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Thanks. I'll let you know.

Duotrope is really cool but you have to pay to use some features. You can sign up to receive their weekly newletter, which is free, and basically tells you what markets have opened/closed/been added to the list/closed for submissions/new contests come up in the past week. But the real good part about it, which is the part you have to pay to use (only $5 a month if you can spare it though...), is you can look up each individual market and check out their response statistics. You also see a blurb about the magazine, what they're looking for, any limitations, any times when they are closed, any payments they make. Duotrope also has a couple lists, of the Top 25 Hardest to Get Into and Easiest to Get Into Markets, as well as the 25 Fastest Responses and 25 Slowest. I am NOT patient enough to submit to a journal that is going to take 6 months. It just makes me die inside.

I think it's great, they even break it down by poetry and prose markets. At minimum the free newsletter could be helpful to you. It's how I find journals to submit to, otherwise I'd never have heard of Summerset either!

Thanks :) It was a nice surprise. I'll definitely put them up when they're online.

humanodon  ·  4011 days ago  ·  link  ·  

That sounds worth checking out, I definitely will do so. Oh, I can understand the dying.

Looking forward to checking out your work!