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comment by zebra2
zebra2  ·  4098 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Commenting threads: good, bad, or not at all.

    You use the word constructive; can you elaborate on what you mean by it?

It's like you say, basically. While "constructive" may be vague, it's certainly not constructive for people to be picking sides without actual understanding of a topic. The article kind of dances around with this idea: what if there were public comment threads on the actual journals? What if the actual literature was actually married to these ugly discussions? Papers would be permanently colored by these perceptions, and it would change how they are treated.

    If you don't eventually make advances accessible to lay people there's no way to be sure you're in fact doing something of value.

I don't disagree, but the counterpoint is that actual research is a lot more nuanced than that. Few problems are as simple as: X will solve Y, from which everyone will benefit. Our scientific understanding in so many areas is very deep and specialized and even understanding these things on a basic level may necessitate years of training. Indeed many people are working on problems which are several steps removed from anything that's applicable, but nonetheless necessary.

Making sure that research is of value is definitely important, but when you're trying to convince the public of value it becomes very easy to mislead or oversell your work. How frequently is cancer cured in scientific journalism? While the public should know about scientific advances, I don't have as much certainty that they can appropriately appreciate and understand their significance, let alone make judgements about it. The article does a very nice job of highlighting how groupthink actively disrupts this.





akkartik  ·  4097 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    ..it's certainly not constructive for people to be picking sides without actual understanding of a topic.

On the contrary, I find it extremely constructive to pick sides. The world is complex, and if we wait for 'all the facts' to roll in, we'll basically never form an opinion on anything. Instead, I think we should constantly form opinions based on what we know and understand, but try to also form opinions about how sure we ought to be of ourselves.

Sport is more fun to watch if you pick a side to root for. Similarly, picking a side is a neat way to make yourself care temporarily about a subject.

    ..many people are working on problems which are several steps removed from anything that's applicable..

I think my phrasing of 'making advances accessible' is flexible enough to admit abstract research. Indeed, I claim it will happily support art and literary criticism. Making things accessible doesn't imply convincing others that it's concretely useful; that is too subjective a metric. Instead, it means being able to explain what you did, and to set it in context so that the average educated person can put on a belief system as a frame of reference. "If I care about art, what X has worked on is..," etc.

    ..even understanding things on a basic level may necessitate years of training.

The true goal of expertise is to transcend complexities to arrive at simplicity -- and to describe the voyage as a story.

Often the expert requires data to back up his hypothesis, and understanding the intricacies of a proof, or the body of evidence -- that may be something only an expert can do. But once the work has been vetted the conclusions should be understandable by outsiders.

Few people have read Darwin's Origin of Species. I am told much of it is evidence of various species adaptations. But it is a great work because the conclusions have spread far beyond its direct readership.

Robert Sapolsky is one of my favorite examples of this, for his ability to explain arcane theories of biology without requiring any biological background whatsoever. Similarly, I picked up Morse Peckham at some point and got a sense that I learned something.

lil  ·  4096 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm not 100% sure what you are saying about Sapolsky here. I hope you are saying that he's amazing. I posted a Sapolsky lecture here on Hubski that was very useful to me. I'd love to hear all his lectures.