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comment by kleinbl00
kleinbl00  ·  92 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Finland must apply to join Nato without delay, say president and PM

I think much has been made of NATO membership without acknowledging that it's effectively just a signal of fair-weather friendship with the United States. NATO membership did not prevent the US from overthrowing the Greek government in '67; NATO membership did not prevent two NATO members, Turkey and Greece, from going to war in '74.

There's a lot of sound and fury for what's essentially a parking permit for US iron and a VIP club card for US weapons sales. I don't disregard your concerns - The US does exceptionally evil shit the world over, and it generally does it under the aegis of "world's policeman." From a materially transactional standpoint Trump was correct in that the US pumps a lot more into NATO than it gets back out. From a skullduggery standpoint NATO membership mostly means the US gives you more side-eye if you do something the US dislikes but won't do anything about it because then we'd have to move a fighter wing or some shit.

I'm coming around to the theory that the Post WWII world was largely shaped by disagreements between the US State Department and the US CIA. CIA gets to fuck with NATO members less, State Department gets to fuck with NATO members more. Sweden and the US have been sharing intelligence and espionage since ECHELON or before so I think practically, Sweden's membership or lack thereof would have exactly zero impact in the event of further Russian shenanigans. Symbolically? Politically? I'm not going to pretend more than a sketchy familiarity with Swedish culture.

I will say that I do not see ours as "an increasingly multipolar world." I think the USSR and China held out against Bretton Woods as long as they could but American imperialism is just too cozy a cage. It's important to play up the outliers as threats to international order but I mean... The Free World's Bogeyman is now mostly featured being towed behind tractors. One need not be an actual threat to serve the useful function of "threatening" global stability.





johan  ·  90 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I'm coming around to the theory that the Post WWII world was largely shaped by disagreements between the US State Department and the US CIA. CIA gets to fuck with NATO members less, State Department gets to fuck with NATO members more.

This really piqued my interest, care to expand?

kleinbl00  ·  90 days ago  ·  link  ·  

So in the run-up to Hiroshima:

- the State Dept negotiated with the USSR and brought them into the invasion of Japan

- the OSS busily drew up lists of communists to keep out of the post-war world

In the immediate aftermath of WWII:

- The State Department offered the Marshall plan to the USSR

- The OSS parachuted saboteurs behind the Iron Curtain

Upon rejection of the Marshall Plan:

- The State Department launched a policy of "containment"

- The CIA launched a policy of disinformation and overthrow in East Germany, Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia

Upon the ascension of Mossadegh:

- The State Department negotiated with Britain to return BP to British ownership

- The CIA overthrew Mossadegh

Upon the formation of the Berlin Wall:

- The State Department dropped food

- The CIA formed secret fascist hit squads all over Europe

etc. etc. etc.

I watched the movie. The State Department funneled agricultural money into Iraq so they could build a siege cannon to shell Tel Aviv with; the CIA green-lit a Mossad assassination of Gerald Bull to keep things copacetic with Israel.

The State Dept's designated ruler of Saudi Arabia was Prince Bandar. The CIA gave the whole operation to MBS instead.

I had been thinking that it was cooperation all along. But the deeper you look, the more you see competition.