One punch is capable of ending a life. AND A mature adult can typically discern between a genuine life or death threat or a lower grade threat requiring a lower grade response, such as the bodybuilder and the geriatric. AND Technology is how we create 'equality' with regards to interpersonal violence. Technology is not yet advanced enough to create a phaser set to stun. Less lethal alternatives to firearms do not give the same kind of power to a small bodied or disabled individual that a real gun in the appropriate caliber does. Until a device is invented and popularized that accomplishes the same thing as a pistol in the right caliber without killing the attacker, this is the reality we face. No gun, this woman is dead on the pavement and this guys life such as it was is over. This is the worse of the two options because an innocent, non-aggressive person is dead. If you see some third outcome when a large person with more muscle attacks a smaller person with less muscle who has not offered them violence, please, share it.
It is not known whether or not this will happen in any situation until it happens. Because of that, it's just another variable in complicated situations full of countless variables. The fact that people in the military and law enforcement who are trained and drilled on concepts such as situational awareness and deescalation and they still make mistakes shows that are judgment as human beings is not infallible and that everyday people are more than capable of misreading situations and making mistakes. This goes back to the whole sliding scale argument. We're back where we started. I will not, because you're not having this conversation in good faith. Until you are willing to have conversations without resorting to rhetoric and hyperbole, the two of us cannot converse and maintain civility. I'm not blocking you, but for right now, we're not continuing this conversation because neither of us is getting through to the other and all we're doing is making each other angry and there's no value in that.One punch is capable of ending a life. AND
A mature adult can typically discern between a genuine life or death threat or a lower grade threat requiring a lower grade response, such as the bodybuilder and the geriatric. AND
echnology is how we create 'equality' with regards to interpersonal violence. Technology is not yet advanced enough to create a phaser set to stun. Less lethal alternatives to firearms do not give the same kind of power to a small bodied or disabled individual that a real gun in the appropriate caliber does.
If you see some third outcome when a large person with more muscle attacks a smaller person with less muscle who has not offered them violence, please, share it.
Right. But it is a greater tragedy when a person innocent of violence dies of deliberate violence than when an aggressor is killed for misjudging the weakness of their target. I'm going to say it again because it is the crux of this discussion, not firearms. Self defense is not base or selfish.
The original argument I was making, in response to your initial comment, is that hyperbole and rhetoric is not appropriate when it comes to conversations of self defense. Our conversation, like many conversations, has naturally drifted from that point and now we're in a new area. Because we're looking at this statement. For the record, I never took that position or at least I never intended to take that position. I even pointed that out up thread. That said though. Self defense is literally base because it involves our instinctual will to live and avoid harm. Self defense is literally selfish because when we defend ourselves physically, we're valuing our life and safety over the life and safety of our attackers. The morality behind those concepts can be discussed to the point where we'd fill a book, and I can pretty much guarantee that you and I will have conversations down the road that touch these themes, but for now, let's take a break. My week isn't going my way right now and I genuinely like talking to you and I don't want my sour mood to sour our interactions. I hope you understand and aren't frustrated with me.Self defense is not base or selfish.
This got my dander up. I don't have children. Many people do. Self defense in the case of someone with dependents is more than just self defense, it is the defense of one's ability to provide and care for one's children. It is the defense of that person's relationship to their loved ones. I spit on the specious notion that it is somehow morally virtuous to allow oneself to be murdered in a hot rage by a lunatic who attempted murder because of road rage. The attacker proved that he didn't value his own life and safety when he decided to engage in violence. This woman did the right thing. I mourn the damage done to her psyche and all the potential good that the attacker might have gone on to do if he had just decided to let it go. Edit* You're a person of faith. Whatever God exists put this whole situation together and left this woman alone to make her decision. Meditate on that.Self defense is literally base because it involves our instinctual will to live and avoid harm.
Literally nowhere have I made the statement that self defense is wrong. In fact, in many instances, it's the right thing to do. This statement . . . Is me admitting to the point that there are moral rights and wrongs to self defense and that they are numerous and worth discussing. However, you have readily illustrated, through this conversation and conversations in the past that you want to assume my arguments, make me defend positions I have not taken, and talk in circles without ever desiring to make any progress. Which means you want to argue instead of converse and not approach any dialog with a sense of good will. So we will not be having that conversation or any other.The morality behind those concepts can be discussed to the point where we'd fill a book.