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comment by OftenBen
OftenBen  ·  2390 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: The Exact Opposite Is True

The ideas aren't so much batshit. I think a cultural discussion about the direction technology is going is good.

He's not a troll, just not attuned to Hubski.





nowaypablo  ·  2390 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I concur with ideasware in resentment of the phrase "attuned to Hubski." There shouldn't be a unanimous voice here.

That's not what I'm getting at. I think some of idea's ideas are far from rational, in the tone of "we're all going to die if we don't start a world-collapsing revolution." Just look at some of his other posts. It's difficult to take seriously.

OftenBen  ·  2389 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    "attuned to Hubski." There shouldn't be a unanimous voice here.

Was not my intent.

    the tone of "we're all going to die if we don't start a world-collapsing revolution.

Seems like the bigger of the two problems, no?

nowaypablo  ·  2389 days ago  ·  link  ·  

None of this thread looks too good on me, I apologize. Not an excuse but sleeplessness with compounding stress just made me shitty today.

OftenBen  ·  2389 days ago  ·  link  ·  

No stress mi amigo.

ideasware  ·  2390 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'm very curious, what is "attuned to Hubski"? I'm really wondering what I've missed. I seem to be the only one who's in the dark...

But if you say "well, you really don't get how it's critical to go back and forth without rancor", I have to disagree... I think I've been very tolerant, but nonetheless I want to express my point with force and vigor, and have a good debate, and hopefully convince some other people. Is that so screwy?

OftenBen  ·  2389 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    what is "attuned to Hubski"?

I can't answer for the site, I can't answer for most people who post. I can only answer for myself.

If we follow from the analogy of 'Hubski is a bar' I think that you're still somewhat of a stranger. Yes, I know you have worked in tech for a long time. Yes, resume stuff is important and of itself it only gives me a stereotypical sense of who you are. I'm more interested in the things that set you apart.

Crisis-posting/fear-posting typically isn't something I seek out anymore. I am learning that the ways we choose to engage with information have an effect on the tone of discussion and the way we process and digest that information, and Chicken-Little-esque frameworks no longer interest me in any active way. I am perfectly happy to talk about different potential development paths for A.(G.)I., potential risks and benefits, current strategies to develop machine learning in functional ways and related topics. I'm not really going to chime in with more 'Shit's fucked and here's why, let's sit and agree vigorously about it.'

Let's try and pursue the discussion about responsible development and application of technology. Less Juicero, more solar panels and easier access to education for destitute people, things like that. And we can also have the discussion about machine learning, ethical and unethical collection and applications of data (Big or otherwise). There are definitely existential risks that we need to be taking more seriously, and in order to get to a point where serious action is taken we have to steer the overton window to where that kind of thing is part of the realm of discourse. One can try and make radical shifts, usually facing lots of pushback, or else one can exert slow, steady pressure and maybe see some progress.

ideasware  ·  2389 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Very strange, honestly. I have NEVER said the stuff that apparently you believe I said. "'Shit's fucked and here's why, let's sit and agree vigorously about it." -- that is the exact wrong thing to say, and I will say so 10 times out of 10. I basically am on the same page as you -- let's deliberate reasonably, and come to a rational conclusion. So -- I don't quite know what to say. I think you have been misinformed, pretty badly I'll say. If and when you disagree with me, I will try and change your mind, without rancor or bitterness. If you agree with me, so much the better -- then we're on the same page, and can try to lead to action.

OftenBen  ·  2389 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    Very strange, honestly. I have NEVER said the stuff that apparently you believe I said.

You didn't use the words I used, but let's be honest and agree that your headlines and tone of discussion is somewhat apocalyptic. This orientation/tone makes discussion difficult and unpleasant.

ideasware  ·  2389 days ago  ·  link  ·  

No, sorry, I don't agree with that at all. That's in fact my point. That's why I think this kerfuffle is just that -- weird and perplexing.

OftenBen  ·  2389 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    No, sorry, I don't agree with that at all.

That's okay, we don't have to agree. Kerfuffle is a great word though, very appropriate to the situation.

I can't bring myself to engage with what I'm seeing though, hope you find a more receptive audience.

nowaypablo  ·  2390 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Having a good debate isn't screwy. That's not what's going on here. I think it's the tone coupled with the actual statements you make that makes you look so screwy.

Your argument here is that there is an "us" and "them" to the world, you apparently being gifted with the knowledge that "a true apocalypse" is being covered up by false promises from media, and "them" (everyone else) being slaves to the media (or the government, or rich people, whatever you feel to throw up in that moment). What makes me dismiss your ideas as nonsense immediately is the easily identifiable fuckery present when someone thinks they are part of a minority with the key to enlightenment-- and that everyone else is stupid.

That's a terrible way to go about things. I went through that phase in 6th grade when I discovered atheism. I used to blast paragraphs and paragraphs of bullshit nonsensical "philosophy" on facebook and more-or-less provoke people to the point of isolating myself as a total nut. And I was. Don't be that guy.

I wish I cared enough to put in a better effort to explain the problem here eloquently.

ideasware  ·  2390 days ago  ·  link  ·  

My goodness. I'm 56, a programmer by heart, and quite an excellent one at one time too. For 20 years I've either been a CTO or CEO. For 8 years I have been CEO of MeMeMe -- a voice recognition service in the cloud that focused on each individual, making it work far better for their individual voice. I raised $3 million dollars all by myself, got Costco and Lowe's and buy.com and many others large customers nationwide to implement it for mobile devices (both Android and iPhone), and sold it for quite a bit more. Now I'm the CEO of ideasware, and am completely into AI, robotics, and nanotechnology for several years. I am not a wacko or a nutjob, and the fact that you claim that for completely unfounded reasons is a genuine mystery to me.

nowaypablo  ·  2389 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I know I'm being a giant dick in the way I'm trying to explain this to you. I promise you sound batshit, because of the claims you make and the tone in which you write. I'm retreating from this argument because I think it's stupid.

Please read this it's about the logical fallacy of appealing to accomplishment, it shows why everything you just said is irrelevant to the discussion.