a thoughtful web.
Good ideas and conversation. No ads, no tracking.   Login or Take a Tour!
comment by YourMatt
YourMatt  ·  2785 days ago  ·  link  ·    ·  parent  ·  post: Why Donald Trump may have won the first Presidential Debate

Well said. This is probably the crux of what's going to make this a hard decision for me. I don't particularly like either candidate, but I have to choose one since I'm in a swing state and my vote actually matters this time. I'm searching for the stances that I do actually like in both and using that to base my decision, and Trump going against the establishment is one of those things that I like, even though in a different light I also put Hillary's continuation of status quo as beneficial as well. I can vote for one person that can shake things up for better or for worse, and I guess I have to decide if I think that's worth the gamble. If by the time the election comes around and neither has an edge in my mind, I'll probably err on the side of safety and go with our more stable candidate.





kleinbl00  ·  2785 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Is it ever worth the gamble?

Trump has hardly existed in isolation. The man has sought the public eye for thirty years. Clinton, for her part, has been a political animal for (I'm guessing) longer than you've been alive. Consult the oracle: google "trump accomplishments" and then "clinton accomplishments" and decide for yourself.

This is not an election in which someone can reasonably claim they're voting for an unknown.

YourMatt  ·  2784 days ago  ·  link  ·  

One thing that won't show up on the "trump accomplishments" list is his taking advantage of the corporate tax laws. Most people see it as a despicable trait, but I think it proves his understanding on what's broken. I think a shakeup by Trump in this area isn't even a gamble. I think it can only end positively.

The gamble is in what I'd expect from diplomatic relations, which is an area where Hillary excels.

In my mind, a Trump presidency appears to result in a stronger economy for us, but may hurt us on the world stage. That's the gamble I refer to, and while I don't know if it's one I will take or not, I do think it it should illicit more thought than to brush it away saying that it's never worth the gamble.

user-inactivated  ·  2784 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    One thing that won't show up on the "trump accomplishments" list is his taking advantage of the corporate tax laws. Most people see it as a despicable trait, but I think it proves his understanding on what's broken. I think a shakeup by Trump in this area isn't even a gamble. I think it can only end positively.

I can't put my finger on why, but this sounds wrong. I think if he shows he's the kind of man to take advantage of broken systems, it shows that he shouldn't be trusted with another system he could end up taking advantage of.

kleinbl00  ·  2784 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I can't put my finger on why, but this sounds wrong.

Because a person's ability to use a nation's laws to their personal advantage does not in any way reflect that person's inclination to fix a nation's laws to the nation's advantage?

user-inactivated  ·  2784 days ago  ·  link  ·  

Hmm. I'd say that, yes. I'd take it a step further and say he might give in to temptation to do it again than pursue any desire to do right.

kleinbl00  ·  2784 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'd rather keep motive out of it in order to keep this political discourse as apolitical as possible... but to use an analogy, one's habits while riding a car do not reflect their habits while driving a car.

YourMatt  ·  2784 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I'd go along with that. I do feel it's a conflict of interest that he would be a sitting president with a bunch of companies under him. He says he'll leave those behind, but I have a hard time believing that.

As the president though, he's not going to be drafting intricacies to a new tax code. Anything on the table will be up to him, congress, and the public to pick through. From what I can tell of his plan, it's all about transparency and getting backdoor money back into the US.

kleinbl00  ·  2784 days ago  ·  link  ·  

    I think it can only end positively.

I'm curious as to your reasoning.

oyster  ·  2784 days ago  ·  link  ·  

What are some of the specific things you think Trump will do that would strengthen the American economy ?

YourMatt  ·  2784 days ago  ·  link  ·  

I've actually barely even started my research into this. Some notes that I've made so far center around corporate tax reform and lower taxes. I need to see how this differs from the Bush-era trickle-down economics (if at all).

With the tax reform, if he can keep money on the books, corporations will have to either reinvest or pay their share of taxes. Either is great. Right now, a lot of big companies are sending money out a backdoor. As for small businesses, they either reinvest, or pay the 30some percent. The 15% rate will seem more worthwhile for small business to hold on to some cash. More companies holding onto cash could soften the blow when interest rates start to rise.

I'm also intrigued by the tariff ideas. I don't know the repercussions on that other than forcing the hand to bring some manufacturing back to the US, and if that's even a good thing at all.

If you have any good reading material on any of these topics, I'd love to see them.